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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/9/2006 10:07:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:27:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 10:28:04 AM EDT by -RotorDemon-]
Made me wonder as well.. He personally checked everyones ammo, which makes me believe someone was using steel core last time.



Looks like someone was DQ'ed as well..
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:35:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 10:38:33 AM EDT by NoAim]
I also picked up on it.

I think they had a big sit down abotu what to do.

The open ideas is a good thing.

Things I liked:
- Even though I got bit hard by it on the last stage, I REALLY liked that all the mag changes were being thrown in.
- The Pistol/Rifle Combo stage. No movement, but engage from all five positions.
- Short range soda cans. They exploded! Sweet.
- The mover + mag changes. If you screwed up your mag change, that was it. You lost.
- The pistol targets/ranges. Fast, and even though they were close, you could still miss. Perfect (for us cry-babies that can't whined about the smaller targets last time )
- 3 shot rule. Very appropriate and cuts down your round count by 40%. It's nice to save money.

Things I didn't like:
- The little plastic targets. They worked, but due to their placement, you could get the same "rocking" if the rocks/dirt behind them got hit. I still think they have a good use, but they need to be positioned better.

Things I'd like to see more of:
- More mandatory "ebgage from the sitting/prone" positions.
- With the last two matches, there wasn't much of any movement. I'd like to see a stage where you're moving, much like the night match stages.
- Longer range (even though I'm only using an EOTech).

Oh, and STILL no knife stage. Although with all the mag changes...time to invest in a dump pouch. I'll replace the knife with it.

Still, overall I kinda like the "theme matches" every once in a while. This one focused on "mag change fundamentals". I'm sure another will be "shooting position fundamentals", another...etc. etc.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 1:47:45 PM EDT
A. I wasn't there but hope to attend one in the next few months. Give me a break I am 300 miles away.

B. Outstanding on the Summer Sniper match - I have shot the 2004 and 2005 matches but had miss the spring 2006.

C. Three round rule - outstanding - after all it is a "Practical" match - ie I don't think matches should encourage / reward the mindset that there is not a penalty asociated with failure. If I set the rules up for either a PR match or could rewrite for IDPA - there would be no such thing as "failure to neutralize" - it just meant that in real life you died and in the game you zero'ed the stage. Thanks for playing. Practice and maybe you will actually score a time.

D. Good to hear Randy's knee is doing better.

Any word on the Summer match?

TIA
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 3:14:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 3:15:31 PM EDT by Slaxxor]
I have only been to the last two, so I cant really say either way.

I did like the mag changes etc on this one, even though I also got burned by it on stage 4. It showed me quite clearly that I need to work on this one task quite a bit. Being able to change magazines under pressure is a necessary skill imo (and if you ever REALLY needed to use any of this, there would be a lot more pressure then just some stupid timer). I also think I am going to take the stupid sling off my AR. It just seems to be one more thing to get in the way and mess me up...

I dont think I will be able to make it next month, so it's gonna be a month or so before my next one.

Anyways, I had a great time shooting with you guys yesterday. I am really looking forward to the next event (PR or whatever) I can make it to.

Link Posted: 4/9/2006 4:46:22 PM EDT
All the more reason I will be attending more ipsc matches instead of PR. Less rounds adds the one of hte big reasons I am getting tired of PR. Forst off you stand around for 6 hours for 4 minutes of shooting. Then to cut the round count down further and shrtedn up stages.... I will pass.I know Randy is only doing what he feels he needs to to kee pthe matches going. But I have options and running thru a stages 3-5 times each instead of 1 and moving on apeals to me way more.

Just my opinion but less shooting = bad not good.

I'll pass,
CH
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 4:54:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
All the more reason I will be attending more ipsc matches instead of PR. Less rounds adds the one of hte big reasons I am getting tired of PR. Forst off you stand around for 6 hours for 4 minutes of shooting. Then to cut the round count down further and shrtedn up stages.... I will pass.I know Randy is only doing what he feels he needs to to kee pthe matches going. But I have options and running thru a stages 3-5 times each instead of 1 and moving on apeals to me way more.

Just my opinion but less shooting = bad not good.

I'll pass,
CH



Do as you must. I kind of like the "cheapness" of it. Plus, since I didn't go stupid and have all those kids......I could shoot EVERY weekend!

You may also want to check out those "Tactical" matches. Let us know how they are. I'm not a big fan of pistols anyway (not my thing).
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 4:57:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 5:09:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:
Cape, I'm not saying or got the feel that the total round count will go or has gone down, just that the rounds/per target has gone down. We may see more targets to come, who knows. Randy was open to suggestions.

I will say this though, even though the round count was down (for me) this was the most challenging and funnest (execpt stage 4) match I've shot of yet.



That's because "WestSide" wasn't there this time. JUST KIDDING!
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 5:18:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 5:20:13 PM EDT by petagunner]
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 5:30:32 PM EDT
Practical Rifle is still what it always was, close and medium range. The only difference I see is more precision has been added to the medium range targets in the last few years and I see that as a good thing.

What we need is an additional monthly match dedicated to close quarter battle. A lot like 3-Gun, but minus the shotgun that belongs in blackpowder era and the pistol caliber carbines that became obsolete in the 1980’s when body armor became common. Nostalgia weapons are fine for the cowboy matches, but not relevant to staying alive in the modern world.

I’d like to see a monthly fast paced high round count CQB match with .223 carbines and handguns in the pistol bays. If not there maybe we can get another Saturday per month in the gravel pit.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 5:39:47 PM EDT
The PR match is a lot of fun. However, any given weekend I can go to an IPSC match and shoot more stages and spend less time with my thumb up my ass.

I wish we could figure out how to move the PR squads along a little faster, and add a few stages.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 5:44:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 5:45:13 PM EDT by NoAim]

Originally Posted By gr8jab:
The PR match is a lot of fun. However, any given weekend I can go to an IPSC match and shoot more stages and spend less time with my thumb up my ass.

I wish we could figure out how to move the PR squads along a little faster, and add a few stages.



The shooting in IPSC is faster. The longer range of the rifle targets increases the time. So unless you're shooting under 50 yards all the time. Say an IPSC stage is all of 20 seconds long. A PR stage is 100 seconds long. Multiply the extra 80 seconds by 13 people in a squad, you're talking each stage taking an additional 20 minutes.

I would like to see smaller squads. But to accomodate the number of people, you'd need to increase the stages too. I THINK there's enough equipment and space to do it, but I'm not sure.

Either that or make more stages, more squads, less people in each squad.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 5:54:44 PM EDT
It's getting to be so many people at times (sometimes a surprise when it happens) that a limit will eventually be reached. Maybe 100 people, maybe 120. It CAN happen. This is one of Tri-County’s most popular events and it keeps growing as more people join the club or find out about it word of mouth.

If the participant number keeps going up eventually it may require prior signup with caps on the number of people. That’s another reason we need more rifle matches for people to go too. Two rifle matches a month would help. The Cowboys already have three matches a month.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:15:19 PM EDT
I dunno if it's possible given the area the shoot is in, but maybe increasing to five stages with five squads? Squads will be smaller, and less time between stages, and more stages means more time spent actually shooting!
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:16:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
It's getting to be so many people at times (sometimes a surprise when it happens) that a limit will eventually be reached. Maybe 100 people, maybe 120. It CAN happen. This is one of Tri-County’s most popular events and it keeps growing as more people join the club or find out about it word of mouth.

If the participant number keeps going up eventually it may require prior signup with caps on the number of people. That’s another reason we need more rifle matches for people to go too. Two rifle matches a month would help. The Cowboys already have three matches a month.



So you're volunteering to administer it? I'm not so sure Randy would like the idea of doing the work/setup for TWO PRs a month!
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:45:17 PM EDT
I'm no administrator or organizer myself, but I remember when a guy younger than you ran PR. Of course 20 people would have been a huge turn out and it was all done from the same firing line. You would shoot a stage, then go down range to change targets, shoot the new scenario, change targets, and so on. Simple and fast for a small group of people.

If arfcom can come up with a stage or two, why not a monthly event run by arfcom?
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 7:00:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
If arfcom can come up with a stage or two, why not a monthly event run by arfcom?



The Earth would open and all of us would be swallowed into Hell.

I think.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 7:08:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:
I will say this though, even though the round count was down (for me) this was the most challenging and funnest (execpt stage 4) match I've shot of yet.



I really liked stage four It was the only stage I did good on
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 7:26:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoAim:

Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
If arfcom can come up with a stage or two, why not a monthly event run by arfcom?



The Earth would open and all of us would be swallowed into Hell.

I think.



Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:19:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:
The match Yesterday had almost a different feel to it with Randy. Some things have changed, not too sure if I am reading more into it or not, but here's my take on it.

Seems as though becuase of the attendance getting more and more, it is being shortened up to cut down on time. In yesterday's crappy weather there was still 48 people that attended. You are only allowed 3 shots per target and if you do not score a hit you take a penalty and move on. IIRC this used to be 5.
I've not shot very many matchs, but yesterday was the first time that a copy of the rules were handed out before the walk thru. Not too sure what this means, but I can only guess that now, if you did break a rule there would be absolutley no excuse at all as to not understanding them.

There just seemed to be a different attitude yesterday, hope I'm not the only one who picked up on it.

Randy also seemed more open to ideas and/or criticism after the match than normal. So if you have any input at all, don't be afraid to throw it in there.

He also gave us a heads up on the July PR match as being his 3 gun match. Bring the shotgun with ya on that one!

Also mentioned a summer sniper match as well.



Randy is open to ideas but I don't know where the 3 shot limit came from. I was expecting he was
going to say *something* to us about the incident in the Pistol Pits that occurred after the last
match. After reading the rules the only one I thought was new was that "No extra shooting between
stages". Something pissed Randy off when a bunch of us were shooting our pistols at
target after we finished.

As far as the challenging nature of the stages, that's Practical Rifle. Randy is always adding
twists to stages like making you shoot from an awkward position. This always screws me up.
Then there is the scenarios and trying to remember to follow the rules to the stage. When I sight
in on the target, my short term memory goes, a screw-up occurs then I crash and burn. Hey it's all
fun. WTF!

After attending these matches for a few years, most of the faces change over time. There were
many *regulars* like Jay M., Kyle N., Phil B., Sheldon R, and Luke H., among others. It looks like
to me there may be a changing of the guard.

My $0.02 worth,

Spambo
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:22:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spambo:
... After reading the rules the only one I thought was new was that "No extra shooting between
stages". Something pissed Randy off when a bunch of us were shooting our pistols at
target after we finished...



Actually, I don't think you were there for the last one. It wasn't necessarily the pistols hitting the targets, but the guys who came after you shooting them with rifles (and punching holes in them).
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:31:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:42:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoAim:
Actually, I don't think you were there for the last one. It wasn't necessarily the pistols hitting the targets, but the guys who came after you shooting them with rifles (and punching holes in them).



WHAT!!!

Are you sure targets were destroyed? That's a pet peeve of mine since I have a pistol dueling tree. I know it can't be arfcom people because I moved out with the arf squad and didn't see anything like that.

I don't know if we really have a changing of the guard at PR. Maybe they are all busy now but will all show up on the same day and we will have over 100 show. It might even get funny if the old-guard guy with the mini-14 shows and gets first place. AR's being beat by a mini-14 is not possible according to this website, but it has happened at PR
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:45:25 PM EDT
It was not the ARFCOM usual crew. From what I heard it was people AFTER you guys had moved on.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:51:52 AM EDT
We shot the rifle targets with pistols, not the pistol targets with rifles. Kinda like the difference between jellied petroleum and petroleum jelly. BSW
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:31:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoAim:

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
All the more reason I will be attending more ipsc matches instead of PR. Less rounds adds the one of hte big reasons I am getting tired of PR. Forst off you stand around for 6 hours for 4 minutes of shooting. Then to cut the round count down further and shrtedn up stages.... I will pass.I know Randy is only doing what he feels he needs to to kee pthe matches going. But I have options and running thru a stages 3-5 times each instead of 1 and moving on apeals to me way more.

Just my opinion but less shooting = bad not good.

I'll pass,
CH



Do as you must. I kind of like the "cheapness" of it. Plus, since I didn't go stupid and have all those kids......I could shoot EVERY weekend!

You may also want to check out those "Tactical" matches. Let us know how they are. I'm not a big fan of pistols anyway (not my thing).



Has nothing to do with the cost of it my single for ever, have to buy a date friend Dont you find it funny that you are the one saying you can afford to do this every weekend yet are the only one that has mentioned the cheapness of it To much time in a cleanroom me thinks.

Has to do with trigger time and down time. Dont get me wrong, I like PR, but its just no the only event out there. I dont mind the ammo cost, the drive, the fees or that, but the down time for the kind if shooting it is just doesnt seem to make alot of sense to me.
Here is some suggestioins;
1.Get rid of the cases for rifles. Require everyone to flag the chamber and carry their weapon slung on their shoulder. Its good enough for the military should be good enough for any civi range.
2.No paper, steel only and line shooters up and run them thru fast and multiple times. On CQB stages where paper is needed, continue to have everyone tapping as it works well.
3.Increase round count, not reduce. Require doubles for more targets or run thru twice in one string of fire more often.
4.Make some long shots optoinal with bonus points and penelties. Choose to engage, you get one shot, miss +time hit - time.
5.ENFORCE NO COVER RULE!!!
Regardless of what many of you think, PR is a game. It should be treated more as such. If not then it should run more along the lines of the IDPA set of rules which strive for more realistic courses of fire and scoring.

I know Randy has been doing this for along time and ideas are limited ot the area we have. I am not blaming him as I think this is just a natural evolution of things. Having said that, at least we have options. The tactical matches, IPSC, clays, SS, cowboy etc.

CH
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:22:19 AM EDT
What is the No Cover rule?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:23:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Slaxxor:
What is the No Cover rule?



If your ar not behind cover while shooting you get dinged.
Thats part of the reason I suggested IDPA rules.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:40:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
...edited bunch of nonsenese....



I agree. Randy has not been enforcing the "cover your nipples" cover rule.

And if you have such wonderful ideas, make a plan and submit them to Randy. Go out and help on Friday night. I'll let you stay at my place if you need a place to stay...
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:53:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:44:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:

Originally Posted By NoAim:

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
...edited bunch of nonsenese....



I agree. Randy has not been enforcing the "cover your nipples" cover rule.

And if you have such wonderful ideas, make a plan and submit them to Randy. Go out and help on Friday night. I'll let you stay at my place if you need a place to stay...





Cape, run if he pulls out any lube and offers to clean your weapon






Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:56:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoAim:

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
...edited bunch of nonsenese....



I agree. Randy has not been enforcing the "cover your nipples" cover rule.

And if you have such wonderful ideas, make a plan and submit them to Randy. Go out and help on Friday night. I'll let you stay at my place if you need a place to stay...



Whats with the mouth on you today? No tail in a few........YEARS?

And no I wont stay at your house. The lack of women there scares me

As far as coming down on a friday, sorry, but I have a life. If I was closer maybe but comign all the way down for that and wasting the night scewing off in town...I'll pass and let you city boys have all the fun.

Randy is doing the best he can and my hats off to him. Its just not somthing that I find very practical in the sense of training. If its not about that then it needs to take a serious turn towrds gaming and be more fun.

CH

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 1:08:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 1:09:34 PM EDT by Q-Man]

Originally Posted By -RotorDemon-:
Looks like someone was DQ'ed as well..



I wasn't DQ'ed. My rifle was doubling and even tripled on the first stage I was shooting. I stopped my shooting and tried to see what was wrong with it at the safety zone table. I couldn't really tell what was wrong while at the table.

Randy and Heidi both graciously offered to let me continue shooting with their rifles. I greatly appreciated their kind offers, but I was really interested in figuring out what was up with my up-to-this-point-ultra-reliable-rifle, so I chose to go play with my rifle on the 100 yard range.

I think the problem was some of the adjustments on my jewel trigger loosened up. I actually keep the trigger fairly heavy for safety reasons at PR, but one of the 4 adjustments must have worked its way loose over the years.... probably the sear engagement depth... I didn't have any tools with me so I headed home and readjusted everything.

I was able to go shooing again on Sunday and didn't have any more problems, so I must have fixed it.

I think this is the first time I placed last . 13 months ago was the first (and only) time I placed first.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 1:12:20 PM EDT
Shooting is fun.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:34:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
Shooting is fun.



Dude, tell me that you're post-whoring your way to 10K tonight....

Oh, ya........" Glock's don't jam..."
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:47:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Unka-Boo:

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
Shooting is fun.



Dude, tell me that you're post-whoring your way to 10K tonight....

Oh, ya........" Glock's don't jam..."



Cape will never see 10k

Oh and I will be shooting more glocks, just not in 45. Hey I dont want to burn in hell after all!

Ch
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:27:55 PM EDT
Cape will commit suicide before hitting 10K posts.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:35:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
Cape will commit suicide before hitting 10K posts.



You are a funny bastard!



Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:13:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
Oh and I will be shooting more glocks, just not in 45. Hey I dont want to burn in hell after all!

Ch



I like my Glock 30. Just buy one and I'll save you a window seat on the slow train.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:45:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Syphonius:

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
Oh and I will be shooting more glocks, just not in 45. Hey I dont want to burn in hell after all!

Ch



I like my Glock 30. Just buy one and I'll save you a window seat on the slow train.



45 belongs in a 1911, and thats that.
CH
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:27:00 PM EDT
Wow... I like PR.. I like speed steel.. IPSC.. blah blah blah blah blah.. It's all a game .. It's all a game.. It's only not a game when you don't include words like "MATCH" and your targets shoot back.

and USP 45 T over 1911 anyday.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:43:54 PM EDT
“There are only three sports: mountain climbing, bull fighting, and motor racing. All the rest are merely games.” – Ernest Hemingway
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