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Posted: 10/2/2004 4:08:18 AM EST
My father is purchasing a new Springfield XD-9 for me. what is the indiana state law for gifting the weapon so that i am the legal owner. Im 20 (as of 9/29/04)
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 1:56:38 PM EST
Back in the old days before NICS, all you had to do was take it to any dealer, have it papered into your name and give the dealer $5. Now, I don't know, they may charge $20 for the NICS?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:27:36 AM EST
I don't think you have to do anything. Indiana doesn't have any registration so the only paperwork is the 4473 for the Feds, unless there's a form for the background check (I have a HG permit so the state doesn't need anything from me). After that it's a private "sale" to you, no paperwork needed. Not sure how that works with you being 20 though. Probably OK since it's coming from your dad, but I haven't looked it up.

If your dad doesn't want to be on the paperwork, then you'll probably have to wait a year so you can fill out the 4473 yourself.

I forget what the questions on the 4473 are, but be careful of anything that might be considered a "straw purchase" too.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:01:19 AM EST
I to am curious about this. I wont be 21 for another 6 months and I'm a bloody impatient bastard. Several people seem to be selling the handgun I want in state, I was wondering do private party sales and purchases require any paper work? I would imagen having a parent purchase a pistol would be no biggy, unless you get in trouble, then I'd imagen their would be at least civil liability. Now state/federal ranges (like the one in Laport) reguire you to present a handgun permit in order to bring one on the range to fire. What is that all about? Can someone explain to me the procedures for own an handgun in Indiana? I was under the impression fill out a form (like longrifles) and then wait your 7 days, and pick it up. Do we have to reg. handguns here?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:30:58 AM EST
All guns, long gun or handguns, require the 4473 form for the ATF. Since the NICS has gone online there isn't a wait, just the time it takes to get an answer on the phone from the NICS people. There might be a state background check if you don't have the PPP (don't know since I have one) and that might involve a wait(?). No registration, no need for a permit except to carry. I believe to/from home and range are specifically exempt from needing a permit, but I might be remembering that wrong. Private party transfers don't require any paperwork, but must be in-state (or else the Feds have an issue).

You can get the carry permit at 18, so there must be a way to legally obtain a handgun to carry (perhaps by borrowing?) before you're 21. I think the 18/21 laws are federal, so you'd have to look into how they're worded to see if they apply to family. Obtaining ammo would be a potenial issue as well, although the last time I was at Wal-Mart they asked "HG or rifle" for 9mm ammo...
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:46:49 AM EST
Ah, Wal-Mart here sucks, 21 for all ammunition sales, regardless. Do you know where I can look online for information about handgun ownership? As for carry permit, I don’t think you would need one if you are "transporting" the firearm in a locked case to and from a range. That would be "possession" but not "careering" I'd image. So is it legal to sell peer-to-peer if your under 21? Seeing no paper work is involed?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:16:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 1:27:11 PM EST by ViperEH]
I dont' know if its legal or not. Don't see why it wouldn't be, as long as you have a carry permit. Your not prohibited from owning, and you can legally carry. But thats just my read on it, not legal advice. If someone you know will sell you one, buy it.

** again, not legal advice **

** Edited to add: People seem to get awfully bent out of shape about private transfers. Should the police take the opportunity to run the serial on your gun for whatever, all its going to show is if its stolen or not. Thats it. If its not "in your name" whoop de do. They won't know one from the other. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't try to stay within in the law, you should. We dont have gun registration in this state, except for the federal requirements. **
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:53:59 PM EST
I don't know for sure how the Fed 18/21 rules work, but I've always thought they were "can't sell to" laws where the burden is on the seller.

As far as "in your name" goes, if they trace the serial number through the ATF (not sure if that requires a warrant or not) then there's going to be a paper trail starting with the manufacturer, to the dealer, and finally ending up with a 4473 form and a dealer's bound book with that number and someone's name next to it. After that it's off the radar.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:05:58 PM EST
Addressing the thread topic.

If your Father purchases a handgun for you and fills out a 4473 in his name, it would be considered a 'Straw Purchase' and be illegal.

MT
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:03:51 PM EST
Your correct on the tracing the serial number. But that would require an investigation for a specific reason. Thats only going to happen if you get arrested for some reason, and probably not even then, if nobody got killed with it and it isn't reported as stolen. Somebody needs to dig up the rules for buying firearms for gifts. My dad bought my first pistol for me when I was 19. I even paid for it. Does that make us felons or something? (I'm 24 now) Hell probably does according to the Fed rules. You know your working with a well thought out system, when nobody knows what the fucking rules are. Why anyone would want to get a gun papered to them is beyond me, if you can get it without legally, as a law abiding gun owner. I'm probably just paranoid.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:07:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By MT_Pockets:
Addressing the thread topic.

If your Father purchases a handgun for you and fills out a 4473 in his name, it would be considered a 'Straw Purchase' and be illegal.

MT



Well, right now it is his weapon, however he wants me to be the legal owner and there is a law somewhere that allows me to own the weapon if a parent "gifts" it to me. But im wondering how i go about this.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:18:22 PM EST
There is no registration law. If he gives it to you as a gift, you are the legal owner. Unless your desperate to have a handgun with a 4473 with your name on it. Its not any harder than that.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:25:43 PM EST
Heres all I found. Google is your friend.
ww2.americansforgunsafety.com/the_issues_state_initiatives.asp?stateid=15

--Straw Purchase Law: Indiana Code 35-47-2.5-14 prohibits a person from purchasing a firearm with the intent to “(1) resell or otherwise provide the handgun to another person who knows or has reason to believe is ineligible for any reason to purchase or otherwise receive a firearm from a dealer a handgun; or (2) transport the handgun out of state to be resold or otherwise provided to another person who the transferor knows is ineligible for any reason to purchase or otherwise receive a firearm.” The penalty for a violation of this section is a Class D felony or a Class C felony if the violation involves a transfer of more than 1 handgun.
--Further, 35-47-2.5-15 prohibits “a person who is ineligible to purchase or otherwise receive or possess a handgun in Indiana” to knowingly or intentionally solicit, employ, or assist any person who is ineligible to possess a handgun, in purchasing or possessing a handgun. A violation of this section is a Class D felony. If the violation involves a transfer of more than 1 handgun, the penalty increases to a Class C felony.
--Lastly, Indiana Code 35-47-2-17 prohibits an individual from “giving false information or offering false evidence of identity” when attempting to purchase a handgun or in applying for a license to carry a handgun.

And here's an off topic part that I referred to earlier in terms of gun tracing. It very rarely happens.

--Mandatory Crime Gun Tracing: No state law exists requiring that all guns used in the commission of a crime and recovered by law enforcement be traced to their original owners if the original ownership cannot be determined by other means.

BTW I think AGS is a anti gun group, but they quote the code, near as I can tell.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 8:17:15 PM EST
I don't think that is considered a straw purchase. A straw purchase is when someone buys a gun for someone else that can't legally buy a gun, such as a felony.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 8:42:10 PM EST
Smokey and I are saying the same thing. Even easier in IN since we can get carry permits at 18. Easier to "justify" owning a handgun. Even though you don't have too.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 8:44:12 PM EST
You cant legally buy a handgun if your underage thought ^_~.

I would imagen so long as the gun is still under the parents ownership it would by fine, because the parent is "loaning" it to the child and thus responsible for the child and handgun. The law continuely makes exceptions for child/parent and family relations.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 10:30:39 AM EST
Talked to the gunshop today. Basically there is NO LEGAL WAY for any one UNDER 21 in Indiana to own a hand gun. The reason for being able to get a carry license for a hand gun at 18 is because this would then cover any individual not yet 21 but in an official position that would require them to carry a side arm, such as Security Guard, Police Officer or Military Personnel. In these cases the "minor" does not own a firearm, but is using a registered issued handgun as part of their occupation and the employer therefore takes responsibility in any screening processes.

In addition, to his knowledge you can not purchase a handgun with out a carry license however there is no wait period (guess that’s state to state). Also, everyone there was unclear to the rules regarding transporting a hand gun in a motor vehicle. Its seems legal to have it on the seat next to you, but were assuming it’s illegal to have it in the glove box or under the seat, despite being legal to conceal it on your self. Anyone have insight? It is also illegal in Indiana to posses a handgun in any form outside of your home without a carry permit... so no transporting to range to shoot at range, leaving it the car is considered possession by the law.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 10:37:37 AM EST
Contact Sarah Brady....she knows.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:07:52 PM EST

In addition, to his knowledge you can not purchase a handgun with out a carry license however there is no wait period (guess that’s state to state).
I'm pretty sure you don't need a permit to purchase a handgun. Before NICS the PPP exempted you from the waiting period, but you could buy without it. I don't think that's changed since NICS went online. (There might be another check and/or waiting period without it; I don't know since I've never bought without one.) It does vary from state to state though. WI has a waiting period (and no CCW) but no permit needed to own. IL requires an FOID card to purchase gun or ammo.


Also, everyone there was unclear to the rules regarding transporting a hand gun in a motor vehicle. Its seems legal to have it on the seat next to you, but were assuming it’s illegal to have it in the glove box or under the seat, despite being legal to conceal it on your self. Anyone have insight? It is also illegal in Indiana to posses a handgun in any form outside of your home without a carry permit... so no transporting to range to shoot at range, leaving it the car is considered possession by the law.

The text on the PPP specifically says "on their person or in a vehicle" so with the permit you're fine with the gun anywhere in the vehicle. I believe transporting to/from range or gun shop is specifically legal, but without the permit I would make sure that the gun is unloaded and not accessable from the driver's seat. (So not in glove box. Under passenger or back seat is probably OK if it's cased, especially if the case is locked. In trunk is better.)

Packing.org has some links to the actual laws if you want to read up yourself.

One other thing to be careful of: carrying a handgun while hunting could be illegal even with the permit if the handgun isn't legal to use on the game you're hunting.
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