Posted: 12/22/2016 4:47:04 PM EDT
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Live within Kirkland city limits.
So the no brainer is to notify Chief of Police KPD. But apparently I can also choose to notify King County Sheriff as I live in King County. Anything for or against one option or the other? Thanks. |
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Well you live in Washington State; how come you would not use the State CLEO? I am not sure who that is.
Well you live in the USA; how come you would not use the USA CLEO? Fill either of those up with useless paperwork and maybe they will see the silliness of not following the US Constitution. EDIT: Notify them all!!! Why not? |
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The nicest thing I can think to say that still gives you a hint as to what I'd really like to say is: "Thank you for your totally useless response."
Merry Christmas. I hope next year is a better year for you. By the way... thanks for pointing out that the Washington State Patrol Chief is also an option. |
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Quoted:
I thought 41f killed cleo notification? 41F killed CLEO Approval.ย You are still required to notify.ย Basically the notification tells the CLEO if they know of any reason why the applicant would be prohibited, then can contact the ATF NFA branch and inform them.ย Otherwise, not action need to be taken by the CLEO. |
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41F killed CLEO Approval.ย You are still required to notify.ย Basically the notification tells the CLEO if they know of any reason why the applicant would be prohibited, then can contact the ATF NFA branch and inform them.ย Otherwise, not action need to be taken by the CLEO. Gotcha. I have no intention of doing prints and pics, I really havent followed it close. ย Our Post office really sucks. Lots of shit gets lost. I sure hope Miss Cleo gets that copy I sent them. 
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| I notified the wa state patrol. Stuff came back returned with a letter saying they thought I sent it to the wrong people. I called the lady and she said they need to go to local pd. I cited the ATF's website that is specifically calls out state police as a Cleo. I asked her if the chief of the state patrol was a Cleo, she stumbled and then said not for this. I guess he is a Cleo sometimes until it means handling more paperwork. She said that was wrong on the ATF's site, started to turn into an argument. She said to take the stuff to the pd and they would submit it to the ATF... I said they don't submit anything, this is just notification. I told her I had her letter back to me saying they had received my forms and I had therefore done my part per the ATF and wished her a happy day n hung up. The whole process is a joke.. Just more beuracracy to deter you from excercising your rights. Maybe some day you will have to do all this paperwork to get a FB account or send an email.. |
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I notified the wa state patrol. Stuff came back returned with a letter saying they thought I sent it to the wrong people. I called the lady and she said they need to go to local pd. I cited the ATF's website that is specifically calls out state police as a Cleo. I asked her if the chief of the state patrol was a Cleo, she stumbled and then said not for this. I guess he is a Cleo sometimes until it means handling more paperwork. She said that was wrong on the ATF's site, started to turn into an argument. She said to take the stuff to the pd and they would submit it to the ATF... I said they don't submit anything, this is just notification. I told her I had her letter back to me saying they had received my forms and I had therefore done my part per the ATF and wished her a happy day n hung up. The whole process is a joke.. Just more beuracracy to deter you from excercising your rights. Maybe some day you will have to do all this paperwork to get a FB account or send an email.. 
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I notified the wa state patrol. Stuff came back returned with a letter saying they thought I sent it to the wrong people. I called the lady and she said they need to go to local pd. I cited the ATF's website that is specifically calls out state police as a Cleo. I asked her if the chief of the state patrol was a Cleo, she stumbled and then said not for this. I guess he is a Cleo sometimes until it means handling more paperwork. She said that was wrong on the ATF's site, started to turn into an argument. She said to take the stuff to the pd and they would submit it to the ATF... I said they don't submit anything, this is just notification. I told her I had her letter back to me saying they had received my forms and I had therefore done my part per the ATF and wished her a happy day n hung up. The whole process is a joke.. Just more beuracracy to deter you from excercising your rights. Maybe some day you will have to do all this paperwork to get a FB account or send an email.. I had the same issue. They sent my application to local sherriff. Sherriff wrote me a letter saying I needed to resubmit, citing sherriff as cleo. "Nah Im good" I satisfied legal requirements. End of discussion |
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I notified the wa state patrol. Stuff came back returned with a letter saying they thought I sent it to the wrong people. I called the lady and she said they need to go to local pd. I cited the ATF's website that is specifically calls out state police as a Cleo. I asked her if the chief of the state patrol was a Cleo, she stumbled and then said not for this. I guess he is a Cleo sometimes until it means handling more paperwork. She said that was wrong on the ATF's site, started to turn into an argument. She said to take the stuff to the pd and they would submit it to the ATF... I said they don't submit anything, this is just notification. I told her I had her letter back to me saying they had received my forms and I had therefore done my part per the ATF and wished her a happy day n hung up. The whole process is a joke.. Just more beuracracy to deter you from excercising your rights. Maybe some day you will have to do all this paperwork to get a FB account or send an email.. Sounds like I should send it to the because they don't care. What address did you use? |
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Washington
Washington State Patrol Chief John R. Batiste PO Box 42600 Olympia, Washington 98504 360-596-4000 Load em up. Like many gov employees they are just trying to shove their responsibility off onto someone else. This whole notification thing is really stupid. The ATF to my knowledge has no avenue to even know if you actually did the notification and most cleos I'm hearing just throw the stuff away. Make sure and NOT include prints or photos to the Cleo, that stuff only goes to the ATF. They should have just got rid of Cleo all together. It's just a paper increase for everyone and does nothing. |
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Washington Washington State Patrol Chief John R. Batiste PO Box 42600 Olympia, Washington 98504 360-596-4000 Load em up. Like many gov employees they are just trying to shove their responsibility off onto someone else. This whole notification thing is really stupid. The ATF to my knowledge has no avenue to even know if you actually did the notification and most cleos I'm hearing just throw the stuff away. Make sure and NOT include prints or photos to the Cleo, that stuff only goes to the ATF. They should have just got rid of Cleo all together. It's just a paper increase for everyone and does nothing. We have actually already had a CLEO disapprove a form 4 and notify the ATF. |
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The Cleo cant disapprove, only the ATF can do that. They must have been notified and then notified the ATF of information that would disqualify the person and then the ATF may disapprove based on the disqualifying information provided. What was the information/reason the person was unqualified? Past felony?
Are you referencing a pre jul 2016 form 4 where the Cleo denied it and called the ATF? Back then a Cleo could essentially deny it by refusing to sign the forms. Now they actually have to have a real reason like your a felon etc. |
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The Cleo cant disapprove, only the ATF can do that. They must have been notified and then notified the ATF of information that would disqualify the person and then the ATF may disapprove based on the disqualifying information provided. What was the information/reason the person was unqualified? Past felony? Are you referencing a pre jul 2016 form 4 where the Cleo denied it and called the ATF? Back then a Cleo could essentially deny it by refusing to sign the forms. Now they actually have to have a real reason like your a felon etc. If a CLEO disqualifies a person, it is essentially causing the ATF to disapprove the form. Is it not? As for the reason, we were not given one. |
| It would be wise to include a print out of the ATF regs saying that the state level CLEO is on the "approved list". This is a new rule and most state CLEOs probably don't give a shit / have bigger fish to fry. Highlight the key parts of the regs, mail it with the form, and call it good. Get something back? shred bin it. Rules say notify and you did, it's over. Who the state CLEO feels you should notify isn't all that relevant, is it? The fact that they have demonstrated that they don't want them is EXACTLY why we have to send our forms to them. Like I said before, if they just mail them back or shred them, all the better for all of us. Those are actually the two best possible outcomes for the good guys. A bad result would be the state creating some kind of database with them. Our state CLEO clearly has no interest in doing that so...we're good! |
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"Law Enforcement Notification. The transferee must provide a copy of the Form 4 to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) who has jurisdiction over the area of the transferee's address shown in item 2a of the Form 4. In addition, if the transferee is other than an individual, a copy of the Form 5320.23, National Firearms Act (NFA) Responsible Person Questionnaire, completed by each responsible person must be provided to their respective chief law enforcement officer. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor.."
What would happen if you actually sent a form 4 to your local district attorney? |
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You guys are really overthinking this and seriously pushing the invitation to the man into your life.
Drop that fucker in the mailbox,ย hope the post office loses it and keep stepping. Going out of your way to get on some government lackeys radar is dumb. Weapons grade stupid. |
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It would be wise to include a print out of the ATF regs saying that the state level CLEO is on the "approved list". This is a new rule and most state CLEOs probably don't give a shit / have bigger fish to fry. Highlight the key parts of the regs, mail it with the form, and call it good. Get something back? shred bin it. Rules say notify and you did, it's over. Who the state CLEO feels you should notify isn't all that relevant, is it? The fact that they have demonstrated that they don't want them is EXACTLY why we have to send our forms to them. Like I said before, if they just mail them back or shred them, all the better for all of us. Those are actually the two best possible outcomes for the good guys. A bad result would be the state creating some kind of database with them. Our state CLEO clearly has no interest in doing that so...we're good! Why print the regs? It says on the form that chief of state police is acceptable, and their copy says theyre required to do nothing..?? I dont see why WSP cant figure this out |
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Why print the regs? It says on the form that chief of state police is acceptable, and their copy says theyre required to do nothing..?? I dont see why WSP cant figure this out Because they can't read the form, apparently, and I wouldn't want to use a highlighter on it, even if it is just a copy?
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If a CLEO disqualifies a person, it is essentially causing the ATF to disapprove the form. Is it not? As for the reason, we were not given one. The way I understand it, they call the ATF with the info and then the ATF would decide if the information disqualifies the person. Only way I figure is that individual had a felony at some point or maybe a weed dealer or drug offenses? |
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Why are you making this difficult? You send it to the most local agency you can. The ATF gives a list of who they will accept. They don't give a list that you can pick and choose from and force those agencies to accept them. Those are the only ones that the ATF considers to be a CLEO, so you can't mail it to the head of your neighborhood watch and say you did it.
Toss it in the mail to your city police if you have them, if not the sheriff's office and go on about your life without making this harder than it has to be. |
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You send it to the most local agency you can. The ATF gives a list of who they will accept. Quoted:
You send it to the most local agency you can. The ATF gives a list of who they will accept. The transferee must provide a copy of the Form 4 to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) who has jurisdiction over the area of the transferee's address shown in item 2a of the Form 4. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor. Maybe they just forgot to put "who ever is the most local to you" ? |
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Maybe they just forgot to put "who ever is the most local to you" ? Quoted:
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You send it to the most local agency you can. The ATF gives a list of who they will accept. The transferee must provide a copy of the Form 4 to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) who has jurisdiction over the area of the transferee's address shown in item 2a of the Form 4. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor. Maybe they just forgot to put "who ever is the most local to you" ? The wording of that is kind of strange, because multiple people have jurisdiction, but they use the singular "the". Just taking it literally, I'd prolly go with the state Police guy. DOL deals with a lot of gun crap in the state, and the state Police certainly have jurisdiction at my address, no? Or is this a duke's of Hazzard where I can lead the state cops on a low speed chase and pull into my driveway forcing them to give up / leave. 
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WA jurisdiction info...
RCW 47.52.200
Law enforcement jurisdiction within city or town. Whenever any limited access highway facility passes within or through any incorporated city or town the municipal police officers of such city or town, the sheriff of the county wherein such city or town is situated and officers of the Washington state patrol shall have independent and concurrent jurisdiction to enforce any violation of the laws of this state occurring thereon: PROVIDED, The Washington state patrol shall bear primary responsibility for the enforcement of laws of this state relating to motor vehicles within such limited access highway facilities. [ 1961 c 122 ยง 1.] Moar... AGO 1957 No. 115 - Aug 27 1957
Attorney General John J. O'Connell STATE PATROL -- POWERS -- ON COUNTY ROADS -- IN COUNTY PARKS -- IN CITIES (1) Officers of the state patrol have the power and duty to enforce state laws having a uniform application to the general public throughout the state, whether within or without the corporate limits of any county or city, but this power does not authorize them to enforce matters exclusively of local concern, including violations of county and city ordinances. (2) Officers of the state patrol may enforce the state motor vehicle code on county roads and in county parks, but are not authorized to enforce county and city ordinances of local origin and nature. - - - - - - - - - - - - - August 27, 1957 |