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Posted: 3/24/2022 1:54:35 PM EDT
Just got a bulletin from the ATF that says they've ruled on FRT's...evidently they're not so innocent anymore.

Link Posted: 3/24/2022 5:34:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 3/24/2022 5:40:10 PM EDT
[#2]
So binary triggers are still GTG. Also this should be moved FB GD or team GD so more people will see it.
Link Posted: 3/25/2022 7:44:31 AM EDT
[#3]
There's already a big thread in GD on about it.
Link Posted: 3/28/2022 1:56:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 3/28/2022 7:40:29 PM EDT
[#5]
I want timmy trap shooter to join us with his fire on release trap guns.
Link Posted: 3/29/2022 7:13:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 3/29/2022 10:00:09 AM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By southerncross:
Most have been expecting this since they were released. There was no way the ATF was going to let this stand without pushback, same with braces.

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And this is the core of the issue. The length, rate of fire and noise associated with a firearm shouldn't be the subject of debate in the first place and maybe if we were to concentrate our efforts towards addressing the problem and stop trying to find a back door solution to it, then we can put all this nonsense to bed. But having that said, that would require tact and intelligence...so maybe a back door approach may be best after all
Link Posted: 3/29/2022 10:08:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 3/29/2022 8:02:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By southerncross:
It's just the state of things. No one in govt wants the citizens to be able to check .gov power. I doubt we ever see anything come off of the NFA list. If anything, all of what we see in common use today will migrate to being NFA iems.
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Until we band together, united ... we will be pushed around... I saw this in NJ, law after law, rights eroded, and no one would stand united
Link Posted: 3/30/2022 8:42:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 3/30/2022 9:46:06 AM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By southerncross:


The problem is finding someone who doesn't mind being the sacrificial lamb. Its obviously not going to change via legislative means.
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there are people who dont mind going down with the ship, but the issue is no one will follow
Link Posted: 3/30/2022 11:28:06 AM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By southerncross:


The problem is finding someone who doesn't mind being the sacrificial lamb. Its obviously not going to change via legislative means.
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I think rarebreed has taken up that mantle, they are pursuing legal action against the ATF.
Link Posted: 3/30/2022 2:18:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 4/5/2022 10:55:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ceetee] [#14]
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Originally Posted By southerncross:


I'm glad they're trying but I have no faith they'll get a favorable outcome. We'll see I guess.
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Originally Posted By southerncross:
Originally Posted By silentbob343:

I think rarebreed has taken up that mantle, they are pursuing legal action against the ATF.


I'm glad they're trying but I have no faith they'll get a favorable outcome. We'll see I guess.


In hiring retired ATF Technical Branch guys to review every step of the design and manufacture of their triggers, Rare Breed has positioned themselves incredibly well for any upcoming legal battles.  They have documentation from actual ATF examiners saying that their forced reset triggers are 100% legal.  My own opinion (worth exactly what you paid for it) is that's why the ATF doesn't really want to fight this fight at all.  Either their Technical Branch examiners are correct and the Rare Breed triggers are legal, or the Technical Branch examiners are NOT correct... which puts every single case they've ever testified in as experts in jeopardy.  It would be a stunningly bad move for the ATF to try and impeach their own experts, in their very own area of expertise.

The only way the ATF wins this one is by somehow getting a court order forbidding Rare Breed from making any new product, while simultaneously throwing so much money at the case that it bankrupts them.
Link Posted: 4/6/2022 8:36:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: southerncross] [#15]
Link Posted: 4/7/2022 5:21:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ceetee:


In hiring retired ATF Technical Branch guys to review every step of the design and manufacture of their triggers, Rare Breed has positioned themselves incredibly well for any upcoming legal battles.  They have documentation from actual ATF examiners saying that their forced reset triggers are 100% legal.  My own opinion (worth exactly what you paid for it) is that's why the ATF doesn't really want to fight this fight at all.  Either their Technical Branch examiners are correct and the Rare Breed triggers are legal, or the Technical Branch examiners are NOT correct... which puts every single case they've ever testified in as experts in jeopardy.  It would be a stunningly bad move for the ATF to try and impeach their own experts, in their very own area of expertise.

The only way the ATF wins this one is by somehow getting a court order forbidding Rare Breed from making any new product, while simultaneously throwing so much money at the case that it bankrupts them.
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Those experts are not infallible. They have lost in court before. The ATF has an unlimited budget to drag them into court and spend them into bankruptcy with filings.  I hope they win.
Link Posted: 4/8/2022 7:58:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By southerncross:


All of that sounds good but I also know they are fully capable of inventing another way to attack the problem, like any firearm with the ability to fire more than X number of rounds per minute is now a machine gun.
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Agreed.  I fully expect the Biden regime to run a full-court press on FRT's, culminating in Xiden signing another one of the seemingly endless supply of Executive Actions.  At which point, the AFT would have to try and enforce it and confiscate them based on that Executive Action alone, which (hopefully) would trigger a legal challenge.  If that legal challenge goes before an honest judge, then he'd have no choice but to rule that the FRTs comply with the law.  If that challenge goes before a leftist "legislate from the bench" type judge, then it would go up the chain eventually ending up before the Supreme Court.  They would probably either choose not to hear it, or in honor of the newest first black female justice, let the lady socialist write the opinion making FRTs illegal.

Originally Posted By whiskerz:


Those experts are not infallible. They have lost in court before. The ATF has an unlimited budget to drag them into court and spend them into bankruptcy with filings.  I hope they win.
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Agreed.  That's one of my main worries.
Link Posted: 4/8/2022 12:17:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ceetee:


Agreed.  I fully expect the Biden regime to run a full-court press on FRT's, culminating in Xiden signing another one of the seemingly endless supply of Executive Actions.  At which point, the AFT would have to try and enforce it and confiscate them based on that Executive Action alone, which (hopefully) would trigger a legal challenge.  If that legal challenge goes before an honest judge, then he'd have no choice but to rule that the FRTs comply with the law.  If that challenge goes before a leftist "legislate from the bench" type judge, then it would go up the chain eventually ending up before the Supreme Court.  They would probably either choose not to hear it, or in honor of the newest first black female justice, let the lady socialist write the opinion making FRTs illegal.



Agreed.  That's one of my main worries.
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screw this shithole... more laws just what we need
Link Posted: 5/5/2022 8:26:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By WGTactical:
Just got a bulletin from the ATF that says they've ruled on FRT's...evidently they're not so innocent anymore.

View Quote


And more than a month later, it is still just a letter, not anything else, and not one prosecution for a forced reset trigger.  Indeed, one can still purchase it openly on the internet right now.

If the AFT thought it was on solid ground, they would be kicking in doors and shooting dogs.

But they are not.
Link Posted: 5/5/2022 9:16:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum:


And more than a month later, it is still just a letter, not anything else, and not one prosecution for a forced reset trigger.  Indeed, one can still purchase it openly on the internet right now.

If the AFT thought it was on solid ground, they would be kicking in doors and shooting dogs.

But they are not.
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Mid terms just around the corner probably has them choosing their battles a bit more wisely...or at least more cautiously for the time being.
Link Posted: 5/11/2022 2:22:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum:


And more than a month later, it is still just a letter, not anything else, and not one prosecution for a forced reset trigger.  Indeed, one can still purchase it openly on the internet right now.

If the AFT thought it was on solid ground, they would be kicking in doors and shooting dogs.

But they are not.
View Quote

Well, I said you can buy them on the internet right now, but I was actually anticipating them being in stock soon.  It appears that no FRT trigger, from anybody, not just Rare Breed, is currently available.  

There is no legal battle with the ATF right now.  The lawsuit filed in 2021 was dismissed.

The ATF has been threatening FFLs who stock it and seizing inventory.  According to Rare Breed, they raided one of their vendors, making it impossible to sell for weeks now.  I have not seen anything confirming that "raid."  Has anybody else?  A raid is usually done with a search warrant signed by a federal judge.  

Anyway, the bottom line is that these type of triggers appear to be unavailable right now, without any actual court action by the ATF and without any criminal charges against anybody.
Link Posted: 5/12/2022 6:46:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum:

Well, I said you can buy them on the internet right now, but I was actually anticipating them being in stock soon.  It appears that no FRT trigger, from anybody, not just Rare Breed, is currently available.  

There is no legal battle with the ATF right now.  The lawsuit filed in 2021 was dismissed.

The ATF has been threatening FFLs who stock it and seizing inventory.  According to Rare Breed, they raided one of their vendors, making it impossible to sell for weeks now.  I have not seen anything confirming that "raid."  Has anybody else?  A raid is usually done with a search warrant signed by a federal judge.  

Anyway, the bottom line is that these type of triggers appear to be unavailable right now, without any actual court action by the ATF and without any criminal charges against anybody.
View Quote


"you may beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride"

It's the fear of the interaction and/or even an accusation that most fear from certain three letter branches...not so much that you've done anything wrong as much as to how much time, money and loss of productivity (or freedom) is it going to take to prove it. The folks who can afford to deal with such things doesn't dabble with trinkets and gadgets to make a title 1 weapon mimic their NFA counterparts, so an effective argument from someone who can actually afford to stand by their belief probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.
Link Posted: 5/20/2022 1:38:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Another week goes by and still unavailable.
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