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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/11/2005 4:39:49 PM EDT
Here is what I am thinking. I hear some poeple talking about dynamic training. Door kicking kill house, entry tactics and the like. Maybe shooting from and arouns vehicles.

Here is what I am thinking/proposing. I have essentially unfettered access to a gravel pit where I can come and go as I please and shoot. The pit itself roughly measures 75mX75m with a safe shooting radius of about 160 degrees +/- 10 degrees. I think it would be entirely possible to set up a hollowed out version of a kill house. False front wall, window opening or two with a front door. When inside have narrow portable walls and barrels arranged in different ways with IPSC targets strategically placed to simulate bad guys. Of course swinging targets could be implimented, a pop-up or two.

Shooting from a wehicle would however be somewhat limited by the length of the pit, but still could be acheived. I vehicle has been offered for this training, by a very generous individual.

Muzzel dicipline is an absolute must due to the relationship of houses in the area. Safety is after all a primary concern with this type of training. That coupled with the fact that I do not want to loose my privelige to use this facility due to someone elses lack of control or good judgement.

Training could be year round. Shotguns, rifles, and pistols welcome. There would be some limitations. First would be that I would have to be on site when training is going on. I am certain the propery owner would not just want all kinds of people coming and going at all hours of the day and night. I have no problem running out a few minutes from my house and doing drills a few times a month.

I would have to talk to the property owner to be sure this is something that he would allow. I do not however think it would be a problem. You never know, sometimes people will surprize you when you least expect it.

The only other obsticals would be range improvements. Which means ideas, manpower, and well capitol. That might mean empty 55gal barrels. Lumber for barricades and walls. A heavy door good for kicking. Targets etc.... If anyone has the access to an end loader to build up the berms.

This is all of course just in the planning stage. I need to find if there is any interest. Find out if this something people would want to do, if we are allowed.

I do not want to step on any toes. Stan has what I would consider a far superior facility as far as location in relation to neighbors and the ability to shoot nearly 360 degrees. I am in no way trying to compete with Stan and what he is trying to accomplish. My hat is off to Stan for what he has been able to do this far.

Well this is what I have been thinking about. Let me know what you guys and gals think. Unfortunately I will be out of town with work for the next few days. I don't think I will be able to check up on this thread far a few days. Please don't let that stop anyone from giving me your input and discussing the whole thing. I fyou guys think this is a terrible idea, let me know. No hard feelings, I will just keep shooting there like I have been for a while now. If you guys like it I will try and move forward with the plans.

Thanks for your time.

Todd

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:52:29 PM EDT
On september 11th no less.
(*SIGH*)

It's illegal to shoot from vehicles in WI, per the hunting regs. Uncased firearm in vehicle.

They've been known to write that ticket to folks who oped the case in the trunk to hand a gun out as a hunting party was embarking. They've also writen that ticket to folks who took the cased arm out of the car, uncased it, leaned it against the car, put case back in trunk. It is their number one violation, so don't post pics.

Half a shoot house sounds cool, but probably too elaborate. I also think the idea will scare most property owners. It'd scare me if I had a lot to lose. Letting you shoot there is different than letting a bunch of unknown folks play dangerous live-fire commando games there. No way I'd give you a blank-check go ahead at any place I owned. I'd have to micro manage things until my butt unpuckered.

Where is it?
My participation level will be heavily based on travel time.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 3:43:36 AM EDT
tag for info
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:55:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:
On september 11th no less.
(*SIGH*)

It's illegal to shoot from vehicles in WI, per the hunting regs. Uncased firearm in vehicle.

They've been known to write that ticket to folks who oped the case in the trunk to hand a gun out as a hunting party was embarking. They've also writen that ticket to folks who took the cased arm out of the car, uncased it, leaned it against the car, put case back in trunk. It is their number one violation, so don't post pics.

Half a shoot house sounds cool, but probably too elaborate. I also think the idea will scare most property owners. It'd scare me if I had a lot to lose. Letting you shoot there is different than letting a bunch of unknown folks play dangerous live-fire commando games there. No way I'd give you a blank-check go ahead at any place I owned. I'd have to micro manage things until my butt unpuckered.

Where is it?
My participation level will be heavily based on travel time.



Well, ok I took a whirl wind tour of Black River Falls, I am back having not done the job, yet.

Anyway, TJ I understand your concerns. I have heard the same things about game wardens and assorted stories about leaning firearms against vehicles. I certainly do not want to break the law. I am interested in researching the specifics on this type of training with local law enforcement. I am not completely clear on every single aspect.

The property is just outside of Hustisford. Hustisford is approx 32 miles north of the connector ramp of I-94 and HWY16 in Waukesha.

As for the property and the owner. The owner is family. While I don't exactly have Carte Blanch in the pit It is pretty close to that. I have done as many improvements as I have wanted, without asking. This includes using earth moving equipment to make things nice. A Bobcat mind you, I was not moving 30 yards at a time. I wish Anyway I have on several occasions had better than 16 people in the pit shooting for hours and hours. I ALWAYS asked if it was ok long before hand. Each time I was told that I did not need to ask. I always felt it was a courtesy. I have also tried to help out around the farm and fix some machinery, replace pipes, fix fencing and such. I never felt like I could do to much for them. They always said I never needed to do anything. Saftey is a top concern. I would still feel obligated to ask them about it, I do however think it would be ok. The only hard sell might shooting from a moving vehicle. Which may be moot anyway because of the law. I can say that when they sight in their rifles for deer season. It is done from the hood of the truck.

The half of a shoot house is actually not as difficult as it may sound. A 2X4 frame with some OSB sheeting screwed to it is about all you need. When I say windows I don't actually mean windows. I mean a square or rectangle hole cut in the OSB. An 8X8 false wall with a 3X6 hole cut in it could make up a faux interior wall w/doorway. Again I have 10 target stands. add a few strategically placed small walls, (2'X4') and a few barrels and a small card table would be all you really need to get up and running. A old heavy door could be hinged in such a fasion that with a special latch the it could take the abuse of being kicked and once kicked a ruedamentary latch would keep it in it's open position.

As for the liability that is why we would have a couple graves.....errr I mean fox holes on site so if tommy tent peg get's whacked we throw him in said gra..fox hole and he can take an eternal dirt nap.

Seriously I don't know how I would handle the liability issue. I know acidents happen, but quitefrankly I am not just going to let anyone shoot here. I have to trust them, and feel comfortable in knowing the they can handle themselves. This in and of itself does not ,ean I need to forget about liability. It just means there would be less of a chance for a liability issue to arise.

I do appreciate the comments and questions TJ. If anyone else wants to speak. Please do so.


Todd
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:27:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Flamethrower:

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:
On september 11th no less.
(*SIGH*)

It's illegal to shoot from vehicles in WI, per the hunting regs. Uncased firearm in vehicle.

They've been known to write that ticket to folks who oped the case in the trunk to hand a gun out as a hunting party was embarking. They've also writen that ticket to folks who took the cased arm out of the car, uncased it, leaned it against the car, put case back in trunk. It is their number one violation, so don't post pics.

Half a shoot house sounds cool, but probably too elaborate. I also think the idea will scare most property owners. It'd scare me if I had a lot to lose. Letting you shoot there is different than letting a bunch of unknown folks play dangerous live-fire commando games there. No way I'd give you a blank-check go ahead at any place I owned. I'd have to micro manage things until my butt unpuckered.

Where is it?
My participation level will be heavily based on travel time.



Well, ok I took a whirl wind tour of Black River Falls, I am back having not done the job, yet.

Anyway, TJ I understand your concerns. I have heard the same things about game wardens and assorted stories about leaning firearms against vehicles. I certainly do not want to break the law. I am interested in researching the specifics on this type of training with local law enforcement. I am not completely clear on every single aspect.

The property is just outside of Hustisford. Hustisford is approx 32 miles north of the connector ramp of I-94 and HWY16 in Waukesha.

As for the property and the owner. The owner is family. While I don't exactly have Carte Blanch in the pit It is pretty close to that. I have done as many improvements as I have wanted, without asking. This includes using earth moving equipment to make things nice. A Bobcat mind you, I was not moving 30 yards at a time. I wish Anyway I have on several occasions had better than 16 people in the pit shooting for hours and hours. I ALWAYS asked if it was ok long before hand. Each time I was told that I did not need to ask. I always felt it was a courtesy. I have also tried to help out around the farm and fix some machinery, replace pipes, fix fencing and such. I never felt like I could do to much for them. They always said I never needed to do anything. Saftey is a top concern. I would still feel obligated to ask them about it, I do however think it would be ok. The only hard sell might shooting from a moving vehicle. Which may be moot anyway because of the law. I can say that when they sight in their rifles for deer season. It is done from the hood of the truck.

The half of a shoot house is actually not as difficult as it may sound. A 2X4 frame with some OSB sheeting screwed to it is about all you need. When I say windows I don't actually mean windows. I mean a square or rectangle hole cut in the OSB. An 8X8 false wall with a 3X6 hole cut in it could make up a faux interior wall w/doorway. Again I have 10 target stands. add a few strategically placed small walls, (2'X4') and a few barrels and a small card table would be all you really need to get up and running. A old heavy door could be hinged in such a fasion that with a special latch the it could take the abuse of being kicked and once kicked a ruedamentary latch would keep it in it's open position.

As for the liability that is why we would have a couple graves.....errr I mean fox holes on site so if tommy tent peg get's whacked we throw him in said gra..fox hole and he can take an eternal dirt nap.

Seriously I don't know how I would handle the liability issue. I know acidents happen, but quitefrankly I am not just going to let anyone shoot here. I have to trust them, and feel comfortable in knowing the they can handle themselves. This in and of itself does not ,ean I need to forget about liability. It just means there would be less of a chance for a liability issue to arise.

I do appreciate the comments and questions TJ. If anyone else wants to speak. Please do so.


Todd




Todd,

As someone who also shoots on "family" land, actually ex-family land (lol), I feel your pain. I am less than 15 miles from you.

Wisconsin Hospitality rules indicate that permission is not required once you have established trust, however that trust is usually only extended to you and immediate family/friends. if someone screws it up, the shows over and relationships can be severely damaged. I would be willing to bet the "16 shooters at one time" would throw a crimp in things if the family/landowner knew about it.

If it was me, I wouldn't risk it.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:10:38 AM EDT
Well I certainly don't want to risk the relationship I have. Maybe I will just forget about the entire idea.

Thanks for the input.


Todd
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 4:21:10 AM EDT
I didn't mean to be discouraging.
Have a cards-on-the-table discussion with the owner; that's all.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 2:31:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:
I didn't mean to be discouraging.
Have a cards-on-the-table discussion with the owner; that's all.



I am not to discouraged the thread has been viewed 139 times, and most have suggested against it. So I will.

It will not stop me from slowly aquiring the materials needed to build something on site for myself to practice with. I was hoping for some more interest and support. There seems to be very little. That is ok. Just trying to help folks.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 2:39:54 PM EDT
Dang man. I wish I were closer, I would be all over the opportunity to utilize a place like that. I could really use an area to re-acquire and hone the skills that you could practice with a setup like what you have suggested.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:17:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Flamethrower:

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:
I didn't mean to be discouraging.
Have a cards-on-the-table discussion with the owner; that's all.



I am not to discouraged the thread has been viewed 139 times, and most have suggested against it. So I will.

It will not stop me from slowly aquiring the materials needed to build something on site for myself to practice with. I was hoping for some more interest and support. There seems to be very little. That is ok. Just trying to help folks.




Hey man, not trying to be discouraging. Just trying to preserve your good graces with the landowner and continued use of the land for yourself!!!!

Now if YOU owned it, I think we would be all over it!!! Any chance they want to sell?
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