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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/2/2005 9:32:27 AM EDT
Its on ITV Teletext....

Apperently the police got it wrong.....

James,
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:36:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:06:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 12:07:10 PM EDT by streetfighter]
Not a lot at the moment, except to say that the police failed to link 3 reported incidents.

Mark
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:21:42 PM EDT
Police failed! screwed up!
no never, what a f...cking shock.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:34:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:36:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
Not a lot at the moment, except to say that the police failed to link 3 reported incidents.

Mark



Shock, Horror, Probe!!!!! Police failed!!!!!!……

Short of putting up a huge neon sign and taking out national ad's Hamilton could not have made his intentions plainer…

Hamilton mode ON: "Hello plod, if someone went up to he school and started shooting all the kids how long would it take you to get an arrmed response unit on the scene?"… and he really did ask that question!

Or the best one… next time I have one of the neighbours park outside my house lets see what happens if take a gun outside and theeaten to blow her head off if she don't move the car?…

We are living in interesting times and the big lie is starting to crumble…

ANdy



But will it make any difference to us??
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:43:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 12:44:14 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:53:22 PM EDT
He'll fucking squirm his way out of it

Mark
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:36:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:49:56 PM EDT
I dont mind being a scapegoat.

Police fucked up...ahhhh blame the law abiding shooting community. Makes sense.

Any more info about this story apart from Teletext (so 90's)....?

Taffy
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:57:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 2:59:36 PM EDT by Taffy223]
Found this

Link

GEORGE Robertson, the NATO secretary general, is considering legal action against the owners of the Sunday Herald, over internet allegations about his connection to Thomas Hamilton, the Dunblane killer.


And this..

Link

LETTERS between Labour and Tory ministers and correspondence relating to Thomas Hamilton's alleged involvement with Freemasonry are part of a batch of more than 100 documents about the Dunblane mass murder which have been sealed from public sight for 100 years.

The documents include a letter connected to Hamilton, which was sent by George Robertson, currently head of Nato, to Michael Forsyth, who was then Secretary of State for Scotland.

Until now it was thought that a 100-year public secrecy order had only been placed on one police report into Hamilton which allegedly named high-profile politicians and legal figures. However, a Sunday Herald investigation has uncovered that 106 documents, which were submitted to the Dunblane inquiry in 1996, were also placed under the 100-year rule.

The Scottish Executive has claimed the 100-year secrecy order was placed on the Central Police report, which was drafted in 1991 five years before the murders, to protect the identities of children named in the report. Hamilton had allegedly abused a number of children prior to his 1996 gun attack on Dunblane primary school in which 16 primary one children and a teacher died before Hamilton turned his gun on himself.

However, only a handful of the documents, which the Sunday Herald has discovered to be also subject to the 100-year rule, relate to children or name alleged abuse victims.

The most intriguing document is listed as: 'Copy of letter from Thomas Hamilton to Dunblane parents regarding boys' club, and flyer advertising Dunblane Boys' Sports Club. Both sent to Rt Hon Michael Forsyth, MP, Secretary of State for Scotland, by George Robertson MP.' Also closed under the 100-year rule is a 'submission to Lord James Douglas Hamilton, MP, Minister of State at the Scottish Office, concerning government evidence to the Inquiry'.

Another document relates to correspondence between the clerk of the Dunblane inquiry, which was presided over by Lord Cullen, and a member of the public regarding 'possible affiliations of Thomas Hamilton with Freemasonry ... and copy letters from Thomas Hamilton'.

SNP deputy justice minister, Michael Matheson, said: 'The explanation to date about the 100 -year rule was that it was put in place to protect the interests of children named in the Central Police report. How can that explanation stand when children aren't named? The 100-year rule needs to be re-examined with respect to all documents.'

Matheson has written to the Lord Advocate, Colin Boyd, asking why the 100-year rule applies and how it can be revoked. He has so far had no response. He also asked First Minister Jack McConnell to explain the reasons for the 100-year order but received 'no substantial answer'. Matheson is to write to Colin Boyd a second time, in the light of the discovery that more than 100 other documents are also sealed, asking him to account for the decision.

A spokeswoman for the Crown Office said: 'In consultation with the Crown Office and the Scottish Office, Lord Cullen agreed that in line with the age of some of the individuals involved and named in the inquiry, the closure period would be 100 years. The Lord Advocate is considering issuing a redacted copy of the productions, which would blank out identifying details of children and their families. A decision on this has yet to be made.'

Taffy
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:11:03 PM EDT
Good find Taff, I searched myself earlier but didn't find anything

Mark
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:25:14 PM EDT
Whoever you need to go after, do it.

The Snowdrop Campaign sure won't.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:54:06 AM EDT
I'am appalled, I can still remember the Sky News bringing on one psychiatric expert after another, giving us the generallity a run down of how ill the shooting community is, and that anyone who shoots hunts or is intrested in firearms has alsorts of sexual and mental problem's.

It was a tragic incident, no excuse or any reason could ever cover what happened in Dunblane, and my thoughts and prayers are with those now, as then who lost loved one's.

If the New Labour is anything like the old New Labour, then we are doomed to be kept in the dark and fed on shit as to the real reasons as to why the cover up. As to going to the €uropean Court, thats going to be very intresting to see, HMG will probably tell them to naff off and mind their own business, which would be equall to an addmission of guilt in my eyes.

Now to get back to the shrinks evaluation of all gun enthusiasts being perverts, it's really perverted that we had to suffer the loss of rights to protect perverts and their perversion's, now that really is perverted.

What a shame!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:54:36 AM EDT
SCHOOL KILLER'S 'PARANOIA'
Papers from the inquiry into the Dunblane school massacre have been released - they were initially meant to be kept secret for 100 years.

They show murderer Thomas Hamilton bore a grudge verging on paranoia against the town's parents, police and the scouting movement.

Hamilton killed 16 pupils and their teacher during the massacre in March 1996, then turned his gun on himself.

The documents were released following an appeal by the victims' families amid claims of a cover-up and various conspiracy theories.

One person who had known Hamilton for years told police after the massacre that Hamilton would regularly vent his grievances in phone calls.

"I would say he did have a thing, almost paranoia, about the Scouts, police and parents in Dunblane," the witness said.

"He felt everyone was against him, really the whole thing became repetitive and very boring."

The witness statement is one of 3,000 documents relating to the Dunblane massacre made public for the first time.

The documents, from the Cullen Inquiry, were originally placed under a 100-year closure order but Scotland's senior law officer, Lord Advocate Colin Boyd, reviewed that decision.

The papers have been made available at the National Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh.

The identity of the witness is not disclosed in the papers but he was 28 when he gave his statement to police shortly after the shootings at Dunblane Primary School.[/red

This is what Sky News has to say about it all, any coments???
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:44:57 AM EDT
I've been trying to search the Scottish Public records Office Here, but all I keep getting is "Closed"

Guess we'll just have to wait.

Mark
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:29:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 12:37:02 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 1:09:48 PM EDT

Detective Sergeant Paul Hughes, who headed the child protection unit of Central Scotland police, suspected that the gunman was a paedophile and urged the fiscal’s office to prosecute him. He also called for Hamilton’s gun licence to be withdrawn.

Another policeman met a fiscal deputy and suggested that Hamilton was guilty of breach of the peace and lewd, indecent and libidinous practices and behaviour and to obtain a search warrant.

The fiscal’s office said there was insufficient evidence to press charges, claiming that while Hamilton’s actions were of concern they did not “cross the boundary into a criminal offence”.



Sounds like DS hughes did the right thing but was let down by the fiscal office.
There was insufficient evidence coz the fools would not authorise a frigging search warrant

Taffy
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 11:22:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 3:05:45 AM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 4:44:50 AM EDT
Ok then who's up for suing the Central Scotland Plod for ruining our sport??

James
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 6:20:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 8:05:07 AM EDT
If I may Quote...


Section 30A(2)(a) of the 1968 Act (as amended) States that:

"The "firearm" certificate may be revoked if the chief officer of police has reason to believe:

- that the holder is of intemperate habits or unsound mind or is otherwise unfitted to be trusted with a firearm.



About covers it yes?



Taffy
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 8:30:10 AM EDT
Mind boggling in the least.
Waiting to see what else gets uncoveres as people start to wade through the 3000 files.

Mark
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 2:01:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
If the NRA brings an action i'll chuck some money in the hat.

ANdy



me too, I have a nice Enfield mk2 I'd like to give to my dad.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 2:41:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:51:23 AM EDT
Okay, how do you screen or vet someone thoroughly enough to know that this person isnt going to run amok in the near or distant future? I'am aware that this is a very sensitive subject, for those who react to this in a bad way, dont burn me and dont continue to read this post!!!!

I have had this conversation with severall of my German mates in the past, especially when new members show up and apply for their first weapons. In 99.9% of all cases they keep up with the shooting sport and further themselves in the area that takes their fancy. Some were only there to get their gun licence, and they dont come to the range again. We as a shooting club are bound by law to inform the local goverment agency resposible for the issueing of the German FAC as to the fact. They then receive a letter from that agency, asking them as to where, and with which club they currently shoot at. If they dont give an appropriate answer their weapons will be confiscated.......As they have no further need for them!!!!!!!!!

I remember getting one of these a few years ago, I was on the phone to the bloke in no time at all to explain that I'd been involved in a big project at work and I hadn't really had the time, and that I was still a member of the club and intended to resume shooting on a regular basis once the project was over. He accepted this at face value, and I went to the range at least twice a month thereafter, or at least until I joined my current gun club, I go there at least twice a week as its only 10 miles away

If I'm reading all of this post correctly, the authorities should have acted much earlier, It wasn't the other gun enthusiasts that were at fault, but they were punished as a colective, for the horrible insane act of one.

It never ceases to amaze me that the people who commit such crimes, then take their own live's in due course. They see red, commit the act, have a moment of total sanity, the realization sets in, and then take the only way out.

The families and loved ones, not forgetting the general public are cheated out of their court case, prosecution and incarceration of the criminal, become a inconsoleable bunch who want their pound of flesh, from somewhere and don't really care who pays the price (us).

I have noticed a killjoy attitude spreading throughout the world.

''Oh that wont affect me or mine, so we dont need it any way''. It is everywhere, Its spreading fast. Until it does affect their right's, then they are adamant that they should be allowed to carry on as had. They heard the cry's for help last week from the neighbour who had his rights taken, but didnt act. Now its their turn to cry for help, and get the same response that they themselves gave.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 12:05:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 1:16:15 PM EDT
Hiya Vito,

Thats what I'm getting at, we all loose our temper every now and then, but we dont go out shooting people. I have a punch bag hanging up in my basement, and when I get wound up about something, that bag get's a good kicking. I dont know if I could kill someone....Temporary insanity= who know's what we are capable of.

Life is to valuble, (at least mine and that of my family & friend's is to me).

The problem would appear to lie with the legal system, that assumes that we are innocent till proven guilty or even sane until proven otherwise.

Everyone should be treated equally and fairly. If the Scotish Police were aware of any problem's with Mr. H. but didn't have enough evidence to take the matter further.... It is still what they can prove, no judge can pass sentence on what someone thinks.

Joke time:-

A recriut asks the drill sargeant ' what would you do if I called you a c__t?'
The drill sargeant looks at the recriut and screams at him,'I'd lock you up son'.
The recriut asks the drill sargeant ' what would you do if I thought that you are a c__t?'
The drill sargeant answer's,' I cant really do anything about your thought's'.
The recriut smile's and say's,' I think that you are a c__t'!!!!

I loved that one as a young recriut.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 2:19:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 11:02:22 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 8:14:58 PM EDT
Hiya Vito,

How sad.

Tony
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:16:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:10:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
What's sad Tony is that it is now clear WHY both the Conservatives and Labour were happpy to hang all the Pistol shooters out to dry. Scotlands Police come under the Home Office, so, if it was public knowledge just how criminally incompetent they were over a period of 20 years, both parties would catch hell.

SO, the answer was to cover up all the evidence of Police incompetence under the 100 year rule claiming it was to protect the children, now we can see that was bullshit. The real reason was to protect the Home Secretaries and Conservative and Labour paries who allowed Scotlands Police and legal system to become so utterly incompetent.

This also explains why, when they were claiming the ban was to protect the public, there were no bans in either the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Northern Ireland or any of Britains colonies… you see, they have their own independent(ish) Police Forces and there was no danger of any problems there affecting the Politicians in London.

It also explains why the fanatically anti gun stance of the Scottish Police and Parliament to this day, they fucked up in the past and obviously can't trust themselves not to fuck up again.


The only good thing to come out of all this is it is now clear that the system did not allow Hamilton access to guns, stupid and incompetent Police and prosecutors did, and with that uunpleasant truth out in the open now perhaps we will see a little less arse covering by the politicians and just maybee get some pistols back, just maybe.

ANdy



I'm confused, if it was buried under the 100 year rule then how come it's all coming out after less than 10?
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:18:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fourays2:

Originally Posted By vito113:
What's sad Tony is that it is now clear WHY both the Conservatives and Labour were happpy to hang all the Pistol shooters out to dry. Scotlands Police come under the Home Office, so, if it was public knowledge just how criminally incompetent they were over a period of 20 years, both parties would catch hell.

SO, the answer was to cover up all the evidence of Police incompetence under the 100 year rule claiming it was to protect the children, now we can see that was bullshit. The real reason was to protect the Home Secretaries and Conservative and Labour paries who allowed Scotlands Police and legal system to become so utterly incompetent.

This also explains why, when they were claiming the ban was to protect the public, there were no bans in either the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Northern Ireland or any of Britains colonies… you see, they have their own independent(ish) Police Forces and there was no danger of any problems there affecting the Politicians in London.

It also explains why the fanatically anti gun stance of the Scottish Police and Parliament to this day, they fucked up in the past and obviously can't trust themselves not to fuck up again.


The only good thing to come out of all this is it is now clear that the system did not allow Hamilton access to guns, stupid and incompetent Police and prosecutors did, and with that uunpleasant truth out in the open now perhaps we will see a little less arse covering by the politicians and just maybee get some pistols back, just maybe.

ANdy



I'm confused, if it was buried under the 100 year rule then how come it's all coming out after less than 10?



The Scotish parliament, or certain MPs, challenged the 100yrs and had most of the documents released to the public domain.

It's not just shooters that are worried about a cover-up.

Matt
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 4:16:19 AM EDT
Hiya Vito,

My fingers are X'ed.

Sorry if I upset you, but I think that I now have a better insight.

Tony
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 5:26:17 AM EDT
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