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9/17/2020 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 8/9/2011 3:07:25 PM EDT
Does anyone's DD-214 list small arms or any other firearms training?   Mine (USMC) does not but it does list multiple awards Rifle Expert Badge under section 13.   Someone on OCDO said that their Air Force DD-214 listed training but another USAF vet said that theirs did not.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 3:17:08 PM EDT
Mine does not list any training but it doesn't matter as long as your honorably discharged.I still signed up for a CCW/UTAH course in brookfield on aug 24 6-10pm for $80
http://www.armedcitizentraining.us/schedule.htm
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 3:24:15 PM EDT
Mine doesn't list it.

But IIRC an honorable discharge is all you need it to say.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 3:38:01 PM EDT
FWIW, when I got my FL CCW, they just used my military ID. I didn't need any official training documentation. I assume WI will be the same and a DD214 will carry as much weight as my ID.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:11:21 PM EDT
I would be surprised to see it on a DD214.  Section 14 for military education would likely be limited to significant education.  As mentioned, section 13 may contain shooting awards, but that's about it.  

I think they will be forced to just take a military ID or DD214.  Small arms training is embedded in other military education and qualifications.  It would be a lot of work to dig up specific paperwork.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:45:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2011 4:49:04 PM EDT by 911brad]
The only Army form that I have with any mention of my shooting qualifications was a DA Form 2-1. It shows all of my schools, ribbons, etc, and each of my annual rifle qualifications starting with basic training until I got out. Never once qualified with an Army pistol (much less shot more than 10 rounds through one) but shot expert with rifle and machine gun! I only have a DD214 from completing basic training & AIT. When I ETS'd out of the guard they gave me an Honorable Discharge and an NGB 22, which is the guard's version of the DD214. Still have a few old ID's floating around too. I hope to take the training some day, but in the mean time hopefully any of the above documentation is good enough for now.

ETA: Just looked at my NGB22 and under section 15 it shows my original crappy rifle qualification: /RIFLE M16-MM/
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 5:46:59 PM EDT
Discharged in 2009.  ADAF. Only listed in section 18, as a carry over from section 13.

Link Posted: 8/9/2011 6:58:44 PM EDT
When are military IDs issued?  Are they only issued AFTER completion of basic training?  Couldn't you have been issued a military ID before having firearms training?
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:18:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By glenn_r:
When are military IDs issued?  Are they only issued AFTER completion of basic training?  Couldn't you have been issued a military ID before having firearms training?


That's an excellent point!

You can get one in as little as 10 days after enlistment (National Guard) with no training. AD is different beacuse they will be in a Delayed Entry Program  and won't get one until Basic Training.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:22:14 PM EDT
I am not concerned whether or not the DD214 lists any firearm training or awards.  My question was simply a matter of curiosity.  I had assumed that no branch had small arms training of any sort listed on a DD214.  I was surprised to see marksmanship awards listed on it.
Act 35 does not require that the DD214 list anything at all on it.  It simply assumes that all US military vets had at least some basic firearm safety training as a result of serving in the US military.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 3:37:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:
It simply assumes that all US military vets had at least some basic firearm safety training as a result of serving in the US military.


And AFAIK, they all do.Even if it's only in basic training.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 3:43:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2011 3:47:32 AM EDT by Green0]
Originally Posted By glenn_r:
When are military IDs issued?  Are they only issued AFTER completion of basic training?  Couldn't you have been issued a military ID before having firearms training?


I don't think they would let a trainee keep one if they were kicking him out (an ID is a sensitive item/Opsec concern), and if you stay in, basic training is not optional, you're going no where until you successfully complete or become physically disabled/ are kicked out for disciplinary action/criminal offenses.  

By the time a recruit graduates without having his guts stomped out for unsafe firearms handling, he's much more trained than a graduate of a civilian course measured in hours.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 7:04:12 AM EDT
Section 13 of mine says Bronze Excellence In Competition Badge, Pistol; and German Armed Forces Firearm Proficiency Badge, Gold.

But for ordinary marksmanship badges I doubt if it would.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 2:41:33 AM EDT
WOW! Excellence in competition. I haven't seen those in 12+years. You are very lucky to have been a participant. .GOV put an end to those in the Clinton era.

As for the 214, it is only a proof of military service.

WI is using it as a reference for safety just like hunter's safety.

It is a bit silly since hunter's safety has nothing to do with handgun training, just like military service (outside of military police jobs).  

I forsee WI tightening up training standards when the media reports on CCW incidents over time.

V
OUT
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 3:26:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2011 3:31:34 AM EDT by Interceptor_Knight]
Originally Posted By variable:
I forsee WI tightening up training standards when the media reports on CCW incidents over time.

I foresee no more or even less "incidents" than other States have experienced.  We still have hunters shooting each other during deer season and I do not see any "tightening up" of Hunter Safety training.....  

Link Posted: 8/11/2011 4:29:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By variable:
WOW! Excellence in competition. I haven't seen those in 12+years. You are very lucky to have been a participant. .GOV put an end to those in the Clinton era.

As for the 214, it is only a proof of military service.

WI is using it as a reference for safety just like hunter's safety.

It is a bit silly since hunter's safety has nothing to do with handgun training, just like military service (outside of military police jobs).  

I forsee WI tightening up training standards when the media reports on CCW incidents over time.

V
OUT


Having a DD214 or a Hunters Safety certificate makes anyone a qualified pistol(or rifle Shooter) no more then a Me living by an Airport makes me a pilot...

It's simply a notch above Constitutional carry..

Do I see it as a issue... Vermont seems to have avoided the carnage....

Give CCW a few years. It will settle in to just a minority who carry consistently...
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 6:57:10 PM EDT
Small Arms Marksmanship Instructor Course, in addition to Army Sniper TATS course B4 graduate listed on my DD214. Somehow, I think it will be enough to make the grade.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 6:18:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:
Originally Posted By variable:
I forsee WI tightening up training standards when the media reports on CCW incidents over time.

I foresee no more or even less "incidents" than other States have experienced.  We still have hunters shooting each other during deer season and I do not see any "tightening up" of Hunter Safety training.....  



I agree.

I meant CCW training will be tightened up in time.

V
OUT
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 7:03:07 AM EDT
The Things folks have got to know is that there DD214's and Hunters safety certs mean little to nothing when it comes to knowing how to fight with a handgun and the laws regarding deadly force... qualifying 'Expert" in the Military or being a sniper qualified sounds great, but I ran Small Arms qualification for well over 20 yrs in all the Units I served with, both Rifle and Pistol, and I can tell you, none of it is teaching the skills you would need to not only survive, but win a gun fight.

I have qualified Expert Pistol my entire career, both 1911A1 and M9 along with  qualifying  a M4. and all it meant was I could pass a certain level of Marksmanship. I could hit "X" amount of targets with "X" amount of ammunition at "Y" distance under  "Z" amount of time. Nothing more

None of it taught me manipulation,mindset or tactics or the biggest one of all... Avoidance..

If folks are smart, they would seek out additional training... as if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in a shoot (very low odds) it means you are about to be involved in the most important event in your life... you would want that extra training as there will be little need for it after the fact.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 7:05:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By variable:
I meant CCW training will be tightened up in time.

My point was that I do not see it getting any more stringent because there will not be justification for it.  The goal should be to eliminate the mandatory training (and permit) requirement altogether for residents and only require training for an optional permit in order to have reciprocity with those states which require a resident permit with training.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 7:13:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Harv24:
The Things folks have got to know is that there DD214's and Hunters safety certs mean little to nothing when it comes to knowing how to fight with a handgun and the laws regarding deadly force... .....

I don't think that anyone will disagree with you on that point.  I don't see anyone claiming that they do.  The decision to seek additional training should be up to the individual.
The issue with Act 35 is mandatory training.  The training requirement is not meant to train you for a gunfight.  It is simply proof that you have a minimum amount of firearm safety training so that they trust you to carry for self defense.  
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 9:43:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:
Originally Posted By variable:
I meant CCW training will be tightened up in time.

My point was that I do not see it getting any more stringent because there will not be justification for it.  The goal should be to eliminate the mandatory training (and permit) requirement altogether for residents and only require training for an optional permit in order to have reciprocity with those states which require a resident permit with training.

I believe there will be CCW incidents that the media will portray in their usual way. The state leaders over time, will react by creating a more stringent CCW training criteria.  

V
OUT
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 10:03:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By variable:
I believe there will be CCW incidents that the media will portray in their usual way. The state leaders over time, will react by creating a more stringent CCW training criteria.  

I pray that this will not be the case....  
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 12:11:07 PM EDT
It hasn't happened anywhere else, but there's one problem with the sampling; no other state has had a such a heinous and long-term repression of rights (respective to other states) so swiftly and thoroughly corrected.  I don't think there will be problems, but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if there were.  After all, idiots do walk amongst us.
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