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Posted: 1/11/2005 10:23:15 AM EDT
I know my cousin has a CCW and even some other permits for a silencer or something fun like that. But just curious what the laws are regarding an out of stater with pistols is?

I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to carry any pistols since I don't have any AZ permits, however, my cousins cars which I usually drive might have a pistol in them or something and I don't know if that counts as conceal carrying?

Anyone care to clarify this all for me? I don't want to break any laws.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 10:30:40 AM EDT
No registration is necessary.

While you are here, you can open carry all you want, loaded. No CC without a permit. No carrying in establishments that serve alcohol, or any school or city/state/federal building. No loaded weapons at the range until you are on the line.

You can have possession of a firarm in a car as long as it is visible (IE on the seat). Becuase you are out of town menas nothing. Just keep it visible and if you get stopped, inform the officer.

Welcome to the land of freedom.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 10:33:40 AM EDT
Oh, and have the cousin remove any weapons from the car if he isn't in it. Leaving a gun in a car not properly secured in a car safe is stupid, period. If he leaves them in his car and gets broken in to, it's a bad situation.

In addition, since you wouldn't be the legal owner, you'd be breaking the law. Carry yours and have him remove his.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 10:48:58 AM EDT
No he doesn't leave them in the car while its parked outside. But I know last time we switched cars on a road trip and he had it in the glovebox.

What exactly is defined by "open carry" ? Like police officer style holster out like that?

And for that not having a gun concealed in the car, has to be on the seat. Is that at ALL times, or just if I get pulled over/stopped/ect.

I did not purchase nor am the owner of any of these pistols, that doesn't matter correct?
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:01:31 AM EDT
Ummm.......

Goto packing.org and get some hard facts......
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:08:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fixxxer0:
No he doesn't leave them in the car while its parked outside. But I know last time we switched cars on a road trip and he had it in the glovebox.

What exactly is defined by "open carry" ? Like police officer style holster out like that?

And for that not having a gun concealed in the car, has to be on the seat. Is that at ALL times, or just if I get pulled over/stopped/ect.

I did not purchase nor am the owner of any of these pistols, that doesn't matter correct?



Open carry is a firearm in plain sight of anyone, secured in a holster that does not tuck into the waistband. So yes, like police.

Any LOADED firearm in a vehicle must be in plain site AT ALL TIMES. If you are pulled over, it is simply a courtesy to the officer to let him/her know you are packing, and will save you a headache if he/she finds out on their own. A loaded weapon in the glovebox is permissable only if you have a state issued CCW. Plain sight rules mean visible through the side windows (not under seat, under leg, in glovebox, etc).

I don't know about the laws when it comes to possession of a wepon not legally yours. I can only imagine this opens up a world of problems. Maybe having the cousin write you a letter granting you temporary custody? We are a very gun-friendly state, but always best to CYA.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:09:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Biggame223:
Ummm.......

Goto packing.org and get some hard facts......



There's your very best advice. I should have mentioned it. Thank you, BigGame223, you da man.

Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:17:51 AM EDT
thanks guys. think i got all the info i need


Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:49:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fixxxer0:
I know my cousin has a CCW and even some other permits for a silencer or something fun like that. But just curious what the laws are regarding an out of stater with pistols is?

I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to carry any pistols since I don't have any AZ permits, however, my cousins cars which I usually drive might have a pistol in them or something and I don't know if that counts as conceal carrying?

Anyone care to clarify this all for me? I don't want to break any laws.



A silencer in NY..? Woah.

He can bring it down here without any problems. He also won't need to file the interstate travel papers for a suppressor (or an AOW for that matter).

CCW..? The other folks gave great advice here in regard to checking packing.org. If he wants reciprocity and doesn't have it, let me know if he wants to get set up for a Utah permit. (It's recognized here.)

Mike
AZ & UT CCW Instructor
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:41:29 PM EDT
If the pistol is in a holster you can put it anywhere in a car, and it is not considered concealed.

Legally, the pistol is considered to be carried openly if any part of it is showing. I believe there is also a requirement for it to be on a belt holster, not a shoulder or ankle unit. IWB is OK if it isn't covered.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:58:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By richardh247:


Any LOADED firearm in a vehicle must be in plain site AT ALL TIMES.



Not true. And not wise.

Let me elaborate from a LEO perspective on the issue a bit.

If I make a nighttime stop and while approaching the driver/passenger see a gun on the seat of the car, it's gonna get my spdiey senses all tingly and may result in a misunderstanding. However, if I approach and meet a nice driver/passenger and am pleasantly advised that before they enter the glove box for insurance/registration that there is a weapon in a holster located in the glove box, things go a lot smoother. I think I am a bit more sensitive about the presence of weapons than a lot of LEO's on the board because I work primarily in a shitty area and encounter BG's with them on a fairly regular basis.

My advice is to keep it in a holster, then in a compartment, preferably the center console. Guns in center consoles don;t get "seized" temporarily in most cases....

For further questions on the carry issue, I would suggest you visit the electronic copy of the Arizona Revised Statutes.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:14:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By richardh247:


Any LOADED firearm in a vehicle must be in plain site AT ALL TIMES.



Not true. And not wise.

Let me elaborate from a LEO perspective on the issue a bit.

If I make a nighttime stop and while approaching the driver/passenger see a gun on the seat of the car, it's gonna get my spdiey senses all tingly and may result in a misunderstanding. However, if I approach and meet a nice driver/passenger and am pleasantly advised that before they enter the glove box for insurance/registration that there is a weapon in a holster located in the glove box, things go a lot smoother. I think I am a bit more sensitive about the presence of weapons than a lot of LEO's on the board because I work primarily in a shitty area and encounter BG's with them on a fairly regular basis.

My advice is to keep it in a holster, then in a compartment, preferably the center console. Guns in center consoles don;t get "seized" temporarily in most cases....

For further questions on the carry issue, I would suggest you visit the electronic copy of the Arizona Revised Statutes.



Right. My understanding was wrong, and I have been corrected by another, and now you.

I thought I was well versed in the law. I was drastically mistaken. I need to read on it, and I appreciate the corrections.

Fixxxer0, I'm sorry I was incorrect in what I told you. I am 34 and have been carrying since I got out of the Army in '93. I thought I had the laws down pat. I have been stopped twice with my 45 on the seat of my truck, completely exposed, and was never told otherwise. Just goes to show you NOT to assume, but to research.

I still think you need to inform LEO when carrying, just so everything stays smooth; I did both times, even though they could see it (had both hands on the wheel, dome light on) and they appreciated it.

However, I am going to switch to IWB now that I know it is legal. Any idea how much of the weapon needs to be showing, guys? For instance, I have a 1911 Kimber Custom II. If I do an IWB holster, I know about half will show. But otherwise, what is the line between "concealed" and open?

Oh yeah, and w00t!
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:27:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 2:28:06 PM EDT by DJbump]

Originally Posted By prebans:
A silencer in NY..? Woah.
Mike
AZ & UT CCW Instructor



Mike-

The way I read that is that his cousin lives (and has the suppressor as well) here in Arizona, and fixxxer0 asked the question for those times when he visits his cousin here in AZ. I could be wrong, though.

As for the other suggestions:

Packing dot ORG

and

Arizona Revised Statutes

...in the Arizona Revised Statutes, you want to look in Title 13 which is the criminal code and covers the issues related to open carry and concealed carry.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:22:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 8:30:22 AM EDT by napalm]
From www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/arizona.


Allow me to preface this by stating that I am not a lawyer. This information is taken directly from packing.org, and jives with my understanding of the Arizona Revised Statutes. This is what I was taught in my permit class for my CCW, and what I learned there agreed with my understanding of state law.


Car/Gun law summary

Date updated: Thursday, June 3, 2004
Arizona is an open carry state-- it is legal to carry a holstered or cased loaded handgun (visibly) in your car. A.R.S. 13-3102 Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly: 1. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 2. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 concealed within immediate control of any person in or on a means of transportation; F. Subsection A, paragraph 1 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a belt holster which holster is wholly or partially visible, or carried in a scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons which scabbard or case is wholly or partially visible or carried in luggage. Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage which is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.



If you are carrying a pistol on your person, as long as your pistol is holstered and visible you are complying with the law. As long as your pistol is carried within a storage compartment of your vehicle, such as a glove box or center console, or it is holstered, or it is visible. you are complying with the law.



Carrying without a Permit/License

Date updated: Thursday, October 28, 2004
Arizona is an open carry state. Handguns should be holstered when not actually in use to avoid issues related to brandishing or questions regarding the concealed nature of the firearm. The law states that as long as a portion of the holster is visible, the weapon is not concealed. It is recommended that at least 2-3 inches of the holster be visible. Fanny packs designed to carry a handgun do not qualify as a holster; only permit holders may carry a weapon in a fanny pack (State v. Moerman). An unholstered handgun carried by a non-permitee which is only partially visible is considered concealed, hence the recommendation to keep carried handguns holstered. Weapons carried in a vehicle that are not in a holster or case must be clearly visible and obvious, unless the weapon is in the trunk, glove box or a storage compartment of the vehicle. Weapons may be transported/carried loaded or unloaded. Open carry is generally discouraged on tribal lands (see discussion under "Places off-limits while carrying"). Other locations may be posted "no weapons" or be covered under State or Federal law (see above).



The law states that as long as a portion of the holster is visible then the weapon is not concealed. Note that unholstered handguns carried by non-permitees which are only partially visible are considered concealed.


Places off-limits while carrying

Date updated: Monday, January 3, 2005

* Any establishment that serves alcohol for on-premises consumption (e.g., a bar or restaurant, but not a liquor store or supermarket that sells alcoholic beverages in sealed containers).
* Any establishment or event open to the public Iwhere the operator makes a reasonable request for you to give them custody or remove the weapon from the premises. A sign would qualify for such request.
* The grounds of any public school, other than the parking lot. In order to be legal in the parking lot the weapon must be unloaded, and, if left in an unattended vehicle, such vehicle must be locked and the weapon out of sight.
* State universities and community colleges. Community-college parking lots are treated like those of public schools.
* Nuclear or hydroelectric generating stations.
* Polling places on election day.
* Correctional facilities (this includes the parking lot of such facility).
* Game refuges (except during an authorized hunt).

A large portion of the land area in Arizona is controlled by agencies of the federal government or Indian tribes. Firearms can't be carried in areas controlled by the National Park Service (e.g., National Parks and National Monuments administered by the NPS); National Forests do not ban firearms but may limit shooting areas. Any firearm carried in a vehicle in a National Park must be unloaded, preferably disabled and secured outside the control of any occupant of the vehicle.

Theoretically, the carry of firearms on tribal land by non-Indians is regulated by state law in Arizona. However, reservations appear to have the right to ban the carry of firearms, like other property owners. Firearm carry by non-Indians is a culturally sensitive issue. So long as you are driving across tribal land on a state or federal highway, your permit to carry concealed should be honored, as long as it is honored by Arizona. Problems may occur when you leave the highway. While you may eventually prevail should a tribal officer cite or arrest you for merely carrying a firearm, your civil options to recover a confiscated firearm are entirely up to the discretion of the tribal council. Open carry on a reservation is likely to be viewed as provocative. I have been told by Navajo DPS that they will honor a permit if it is honored in the surrounding state. Thus, they would honor the Arizona permit in the Arizona and Utah portions of the reservation but not in the New Mexico portion. I have also been told by Hopi PD that they follow state law in this regard. On the other hand, I have been told that carry is not allowed on the Tonto Apache reservation, even though a gun show is held there periodically. I have been unuccessful in getting a response from the White Mountain Apache Tribal Attorney. Some tribal governments seem to have less stability than others; it would seem prudent to check with each reservation prior to a visit. Contact information for most of Arizona's tribes is available on the website of the Inter Tribal Council of Arizona. The Navajo Nation has its own website. Casinos serve alcoholic beverages so it would appear that state law would preclude a non-Indian from carrying in a tribal casino.




In addition to noting the places that you cannot carry, please pay special note to tribal lands. Large portions of land in Arizona are specifically reserved for various Indian tribes. As far as I know, state and/or federal highways that travel through tribal reservations are techically on state- or federally-owned land or land leased specifically for highway right-of-way, and applicable state and/or federal laws are the law of the land so to speak for that highway. When you leave the highway right-of-way it is a different story.


Here is a link to A.R.S. 13-3102, which specifically covers Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions and should answer some more of your questions.

If you have any questions that need further clarification, you should contact either of the following agencies:

State Law Enforcement:
ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
P.O. Box 6488
Phoenix, Arizona 85005
Phone: (602) 256-6280 and (800) 256-6280
Fax: (602) 223-2928
Web Homepage
Email: ccw@dps.state.az.us

Attorney General:
ARIZONA STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE
1275 W. Washington Street
Phoenix, Arizona 85007
Phone: (602) 542-4266 and (888) 377-6108
Fax: Unk
Web Homepage
Email: ag.inquiries@ag.state.az.us



ETA: link to ARS
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