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Posted: 3/28/2014 7:38:59 PM EDT
Got to work up there.  Fly from FL to NJ, work for several days, then fly to TX, then fly to FL.  

Would it be a violation of state law to land in Newark and transport my gun to a NJ hotel and leave it in there all week?  GOPA wouldnt' exactly apply here I guess...
Link Posted: 3/28/2014 8:32:04 PM EDT
Yes - that would be illegal.  Don't do it.  You're looking at 7 years in prison if caught.
Link Posted: 3/29/2014 4:00:11 AM EDT
Tom are you sure? I know people that have traveled to NJ to shoot in various matches (via air and land) and have stayed in hotels. I know flying into Newark may be a hassle . Fly into Philly rent a car and drive to NJ.
Link Posted: 3/29/2014 4:49:05 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By eljayinnj:
Tom are you sure? I know people that have traveled to NJ to shoot in various matches (via air and land) and have stayed in hotels. I know flying into Newark may be a hassle . Fly into Philly rent a car and drive to NJ.
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the problem will lie in flying back OUT of Newark. In order to do so legally, you would need to declare the firearm to TSA, who will then inquire of your FPID card, which as a FL resident you do not have.  THAT is the point at which you will wish you had simply left it back home in FL....
Link Posted: 3/29/2014 6:05:09 AM EDT
Never had any airline ask for ID or proof of ownership when declaring a firearm, just fill out the card and sign it, flown out of Newark, AC, Phili,  Boston, Tampa, Orlando, Key West.  Leaving a gun in the hotel room probably not a great idea though.
Link Posted: 3/29/2014 6:31:50 AM EDT
Remember the guy from Utah who got arrested at Newark for declaring his firearm at the counter and they called the police over to check him out.  He wasn't even coming to NJ. His flight was diverted and his baggage never made it to the baggage claim.  By the time he retrieved his baggage, the bus provided by the airline had departed for his final destination, so they put him up in a hotel room for the night until he could get another flight in the morning.  When he arrived back at Newark airport & declared his firearm, he got arrested for unlawful possession of a firearm for not having his FPID, and it being illegal in NJ to be in possession of a handgun without going to one of the specifically exempted locations.  He spent several days and nights in county lockup over this until family and friends back in UT could post his bail.

You take your own chances in that gulag.  I'm glad I was finally able to escape.  And escape is the mot fitting word for it.


Link Posted: 3/29/2014 8:19:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2014 8:23:42 AM EDT by MilitantAgnostic]
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Originally Posted By johnQpublik:
Remember the guy from Utah who got arrested at Newark for declaring his firearm at the counter and they called the police over to check him out.  He wasn't even coming to NJ. His flight was diverted and his baggage never made it to the baggage claim.  By the time he retrieved his baggage, the bus provided by the airline had departed for his final destination, so they put him up in a hotel room for the night until he could get another flight in the morning.  When he arrived back at Newark airport & declared his firearm, he got arrested for unlawful possession of a firearm for not having his FPID, and it being illegal in NJ to be in possession of a handgun without going to one of the specifically exempted locations.  He spent several days and nights in county lockup over this until family and friends back in UT could post his bail.

You take your own chances in that gulag.  I'm glad I was finally able to escape.  And escape is the mot fitting word for it.


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that's great.  so Newark does it like NYC eh? Thanks for nothing FOPA, gave up machine guns for nothing

What happened to the guy?  Did he have to pay big bucks to get a lawyer to get the charges tossed per FOPA?  

Did the NRA stand up and help pay for his defense per their abortion of a bill.  Funny thing about laws, w/o conseqenses for breaking them they are meaningless.  This is ESPECIALLY true when the laws are designed to restrick the activities of government.
Link Posted: 3/29/2014 8:25:26 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By wallyh4184:
Never had any airline ask for ID or proof of ownership when declaring a firearm, just fill out the card and sign it, flown out of Newark, AC, Phili,  Boston, Tampa, Orlando, Key West.  Leaving a gun in the hotel room probably not a great idea though.
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yeah, there is probably not a legal requirement for a airline or tsa rep to summon the police, but some think so or think maybe apparantly.  once our fine sheepdogs get involved, it goes bad for a passenger apparently.
Link Posted: 3/29/2014 11:43:16 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By eljayinnj:
Tom are you sure? I know people that have traveled to NJ to shoot in various matches (via air and land) and have stayed in hotels.
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I know guys who have driven with 2 kilos of coke in their trunk, too...  doesn't make it legal - they just never got caught.

2C:39-5b says that possession of a handgun without a NJ permit to carry is unlawful.  Period.

2C:39-6f(3)(b) says, in part, "Nothing in subsection b. of 2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person transporting any firearm while traveling directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting, provided that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section"

2C:39-6g says, in part, "all weapons being transported under paragraph (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances"

So - with all that said...  it is dubious AT BEST that someone coming in to NJ for a competition is legal to travel from said match, to a hotel, stay the night, then travel back out of NJ.  That probably violates the "directly" portion of 2C:39-6f.  Is it a "reasonably necessary" deviation?  I dunno.

However - someone coming in to the state, to hang around for a week to do work, then leave again...  with a firearm in tow...  is most DEFINITELY not covered by any exemptions, and therefore would be guilty of violating 2C:39-5b.

Link Posted: 3/29/2014 12:28:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2014 12:39:42 PM EDT by ar4pete]
Attorney Evan Nappen says in his 2014 book "NJ Gun Law" on pg 169 that (I'm paraphrasing to avoid copyright infringement) Non-residents are covered under FOPA if going to and from a range for a target match but that they may have problems if staying in a hotel. NJ's exemptions have been interpreted by some courts NOT to include hotel rooms.

He says your better off leaving the guns cased and unloaded in your vehicle or staying in a hotel outside NJ.

He concludes by saying that NJ often doesn't honor its own laws and that he's had many clients who innocently traveled into NJ with properly secured firearms and were arrested anyway. No thought was given as to whether they met the exemptions before they were charged.

There is a famous NJ Superior court decision: STATE OF N.J. V. JOSEPH PELLETERI 294 N.J. Super. 330. Judge Baime said: "When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his peril"

In NJ, you're guilty until proven innocent. I would help your brothers behind the iron curtain here in the People's Republik of New Jerseystan and join and contribute to the NRA and SAF and stay out of NJ with guns. There's nothing in NJ worth arrest, bail, $100k in legal fees, a felony conviction, loss of firearms rights and years of jail time.

Sorry, but welcome to the Garden State!
Link Posted: 3/29/2014 1:54:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2014 1:54:36 PM EDT by Lion_Dog]
Link Posted: 3/29/2014 2:34:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lion_Dog:


This is what a fascist state does. The subjects here aren't ready for anything, the frog is almost done. Slow cooKing temp keeps the meat tender.

edit:sp
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Originally Posted By Lion_Dog:
In NJ, you're guilty until proven innocent.


This is what a fascist state does. The subjects here aren't ready for anything, the frog is almost done. Slow cooKing temp keeps the meat tender.

edit:sp

That's why this frog jumped
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 5:55:47 PM EDT
hey, can I have knives in my luggage in the trunk on the way to/from hotel?
Link Posted: 3/30/2014 11:27:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2014 12:10:24 AM EDT by ar4pete]
Practically, you should be OK as long as it's not a gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife. NJ does not have blade length restrictions on knives.

However, NJ has this overly broad law that makes basically anything an unlawful weapon. NJS 2C:39-5  Unlawful possession of weapons.... d. Other weapons.  Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

I think they would consider a knife in your car or luggage as constructive possession. So the key is to tell the police that the knife is for a lawful purpose like fishing and NOT for self defense. You're visiting NJ and going surfcasting at the shore. Or you use it to open boxes at work.

NJ is ruled by progressives. If your a shit bag criminal, they are lenient; if you're a tax paying citizen, they'll go out of their way to make an example of you. It's not a coincidence that the NJ State Police uniform resembles a Nazi SS officers uniform.

For self defense, I personally carry pepper spray and a metal pen. It's pathetic but better than nothing. Less than 3/4 oz pepper spray is legal in NJ. I don't carry a tactical pen but a regular Zebra metal pen from Staples. You can stab them in the eye, ear, or jugular/carotid.  I think it would be hard to prosecute someone for possessing a regular pen.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 4:51:28 AM EDT
This is NJ, just because the law says you can... you may still get arrested, especially at Newark Airport.  Listen to Tom, he knows
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 1:37:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By johnQpublik:



the problem will lie in flying back OUT of Newark. In order to do so legally, you would need to declare the firearm to TSA, who will then inquire of your FPID card, which as a FL resident you do not have.  THAT is the point at which you will wish you had simply left it back home in FL....
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Originally Posted By johnQpublik:
Originally Posted By eljayinnj:
Tom are you sure? I know people that have traveled to NJ to shoot in various matches (via air and land) and have stayed in hotels. I know flying into Newark may be a hassle . Fly into Philly rent a car and drive to NJ.



the problem will lie in flying back OUT of Newark. In order to do so legally, you would need to declare the firearm to TSA, who will then inquire of your FPID card, which as a FL resident you do not have.  THAT is the point at which you will wish you had simply left it back home in FL....



I live in NJ and have taken my handguns/long guns to Fla., when I tell the airline agent I have items to declare, he takes me to the TSA orifice.  There I have never been asked for any type of ID.
Nothing, zilch, nada!  Maybe not the rule but certainly that has been my experience on three separate occasions.
Link Posted: 3/31/2014 3:47:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2014 5:19:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2014 5:21:00 PM EDT by zer0t]
You can do this only if you are looking for free room and board at a state run hotel like Rahway state prison.

Do not bring a gun to NJ the laws here are intentionally vague to applied as some judge sees fit for a particular situation.
Link Posted: 4/22/2014 1:31:08 PM EDT
OP, if you do what you are suggesting and get caught you are going to jail.

I do not recommend it.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 5:00:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MilitantAgnostic:


that's great.  so Newark does it like NYC eh? Thanks for nothing FOPA, gave up machine guns for nothing

What happened to the guy?  Did he have to pay big bucks to get a lawyer to get the charges tossed per FOPA?  

Did the NRA stand up and help pay for his defense per their abortion of a bill.  Funny thing about laws, w/o conseqenses for breaking them they are meaningless.  This is ESPECIALLY true when the laws are designed to restrick the activities of government.
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Originally Posted By MilitantAgnostic:
Originally Posted By johnQpublik:
Remember the guy from Utah who got arrested at Newark for declaring his firearm at the counter and they called the police over to check him out.  He wasn't even coming to NJ. His flight was diverted and his baggage never made it to the baggage claim.  By the time he retrieved his baggage, the bus provided by the airline had departed for his final destination, so they put him up in a hotel room for the night until he could get another flight in the morning.  When he arrived back at Newark airport & declared his firearm, he got arrested for unlawful possession of a firearm for not having his FPID, and it being illegal in NJ to be in possession of a handgun without going to one of the specifically exempted locations.  He spent several days and nights in county lockup over this until family and friends back in UT could post his bail.

You take your own chances in that gulag.  I'm glad I was finally able to escape.  And escape is the mot fitting word for it.




that's great.  so Newark does it like NYC eh? Thanks for nothing FOPA, gave up machine guns for nothing

What happened to the guy?  Did he have to pay big bucks to get a lawyer to get the charges tossed per FOPA?  

Did the NRA stand up and help pay for his defense per their abortion of a bill.  Funny thing about laws, w/o conseqenses for breaking them they are meaningless.  This is ESPECIALLY true when the laws are designed to restrick the activities of government.



Yes the one thing people always forget or don't understand is the airports here in both NY (JFK, Laguardia, and Stewart) and NJ (Newark Liberty, Teterborow, and  Atlantic City) are run by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. They have their own police department that has jurisdiction in both states. They also do the police work on the bridges and tunnels between NJ and NY, as well as police duty, the World Trade Center sight and the shipping ports in NY, NJ. So when you read about a gun arrest in NYC or NJ its most likely the PAPD making the arrest (the TSA does not have arrest power so they call the local police to handle the issue.) BTW taking a firearm to a checkpoint is not an actual crime. Some airports in the south and west will tell you to leave and return with no weapon (no arrest or charge).
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 1:01:56 PM EDT
do your self a BIG favor..JUST leave any and all firearems, knives pepper spray or other "weapons" home if you fly into the NJ/NY areas...you will be much better off in life staying free than being in prison because of our stupidity here
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 1:19:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By intercooler:
do your self a BIG favor..JUST leave any and all firearems, knives pepper spray or other "weapons" home if you fly into the NJ/NY areas...you will be much better off in life staying free than being in prison because of our stupidity here
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Listen to this.  It sums up the advice you should follow!
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 3:30:48 PM EDT
I flew to Florida and Spirit Atlantic City gave me a hard time, not as bad as getting arrested in Newark, now Spirit in Tampa were.... " going hunting? Nope range, and they told me the ranges to go to.... she was nice
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