People have played around with different ways of NOT making an AW out of our new lowers:  fixed-mag, no pistol grip, or rimfire uppers (this last one’s a gray area, I know).  I haven’t seen the idea of disabling the gas system discussed.  This would basically turn the rifle into a bolt action, requiring manual cycling with the charging handle before each shot.  In other words, it’s not a semi-auto.  Anyone do this?  Seems this could be another option to get around the deadly combination of:

Semi-Automatic + Centerfire + Accepts Detachable Magazines + At Least One Evil Feature

Might not be the best of the options available, but it wouldn’t be too bad for a bench gun.  This should be legal, no?

Should be legal, yes.

I believe that's how people are doing AK builds.

The bolt action AR is the only way that I know of that shooters in Great Britian manage to keep theirs.

ETA you should visit the Hometown - United Kingdom boards. Some nice weapons there.

Oh, now THAT"S a good idea!!!!  Thank you.  

Consider also, I already own an upper with BOTH a bolt handle on the bolt carrier AND an adjustable gas system that can be turned OFF with the appropriate allen wrench.  I guess I am in BUSINESS.  

Quoted: Oh, now THAT"S a good idea!!!!  Thank you.

WTF?

If you want a bolt-action military rifle, you can pick up a Mosin-Nagant at Big 5 for $80.

You see, I have this fantastic upper sitting in my safe that has no matching lower....

Be careful.

California banned the DPMS pump action AR in 2000 (it's a listed model) because their reasoning was all you need to do is swap uppers and the world will cease to exist.

Quoted: Be careful. California banned the DPMS pump action AR in 2000 (it's a listed model) because their reasoning was all you need to do is swap uppers and the world will cease to exist.

Good point.  Absolutely, this is a very risky grey area. Run, don't walk, away.

Do remember that DOJ standards for certification/approval are often higher than the legal standard for legality. (Vulcan pinned/glued-in mags, etc. for example.)   But the contention can (and would) be easily made that a detachable-mag lower with pistol grip and/or telestock is an AW.
This is why my FAQ says to NEVER have an off-list lower with pistol grip and/or telestock but an open magwell.

There is a small chance you could slide legally if and only if the pump upper was attached to the
lower and never removed but that's still playing with fire.

Frankly, I wouldn't even do this with a DOJ approval letter.  This is where the "58 DA" thing could get some exposure (esp as it's not protected by a Supreme Ct decision).   Only if you got a true formal ruling letter  (opinion letter) signed by AG (fat chance!) would such a document have any merit.

This is much different with an off-list bolt or pump-action AK.  There, we have an "all in one" gun that is not split into upper & lower halves.  When no gas system installed and gas port closed, it's legitimately not a semiauto rifle, thus falling out of 12276.1 definition...


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Who said anything about a detachable mag?  Not I.

What I could do is put a decent pistol grip on my off-list, fixed mag lower with it's bolt action upper and not violate the AW law.  I could even replace the push pins with bolts requiring tools to remove so the uppers are not swappable.  That way I can add the proper grip to my off-list lower and not have to wait, hoping my lower gets "listed".

Quoted: Who said anything about a detachable mag?  Not I. What I could do is put a decent pistol grip on my off-list, fixed mag lower with it's bolt action upper and not violate the AW law.  I could even replace the push pins with bolts requiring tools to remove so the uppers are not swappable.  That way I can add the proper grip to my off-list lower and not have to wait, hoping my lower gets "listed".

Why, then, go to the wasted trouble of having a bolt action?

You have a fixed 10rd mag, so you can have a pistol grip and be semiauto.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Quoted: Should be legal, yes. I believe that's how people are doing AK builds. The bolt action AR is the only way that I know of that shooters in Great Britian manage to keep theirs. ETA you should visit the Hometown - United Kingdom boards. Some nice weapons there.

I am sooo glad I dont live in the UK. If I the only option I had was one of their bolt action ARs, I'd quit shooting altogether.

Quoted: Quoted: Should be legal, yes. I believe that's how people are doing AK builds. The bolt action AR is the only way that I know of that shooters in Great Britian manage to keep theirs. ETA you should visit the Hometown - United Kingdom boards. Some nice weapons there. I am sooo glad I dont live in the UK. If I the only option I had was one of their bolt action ARs, I'd quit shooting altogether.

If all you ever shot or wanted to shoot was an AR you should quit shooting completely.