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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:02:51 AM EDT
Doesn't look like it has been reported yet, but during my son's shift last night a younger man was brought to the Monroe hospital with complications as a result of being tased and subsequently died. Autopsy to follow. My son was apparently acquainted with the family.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 9:07:43 AM EDT
They're goin' TAZY CRAZY around here.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 9:15:06 AM EDT
The end is near!
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 9:15:39 AM EDT
Don't tase me, bro.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:25:37 AM EDT



http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100904/NEWS01/100909899

It's official. A taser is a deadly weapon and should be dealt with as such when confronted by one.

How is it that the bad guys always got arrested before tasers and mace were used?
If you can't arrest somebody without a high voltage gadget, you have no fucking business whatsoever being a cop.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:27:05 AM EDT
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/102220354.html


GOLD BAR, Wash. - A 25-year-old Sultan man died after deputies stunned him with a Taser during an incident early Saturday morning in Gold Bar.

The case is now under investigation by the Snohomish Multiple Agency Response Team. It is the second time this week that a man has died in the Puget Sound region after being shocked by a Taser.

The drama unfolded at about 1:30 a.m. Saturday when two Snohomish County sheriff's deputies were sent to the 500 block of 1st Avenue W. in the Gold Bar to check out a report of a disturbance.

The 911 dispatch center had received calls about a man running up and down the street yelling and disturbing residents.

When the deputies arrived they were immediately confronted by the man, who charged the deputies and fought with them to the ground.

One of the deputies stunned the man with his Taser. The man stopped struggling, and then deputies discovered he was not breathing.

The deputies immediately started CPR and called for aid. When medics arrived they continued CPR and transported the man to Valley General Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

The man, a Sultan resident, is believed to stay at a home in the Gold Bar area over the weekends, said Sgt. Robert Goetz of the Everett police.

Investigators are now interviewing witnesses in an effort to determine what may have caused the man to take the actions he did when the deputies arrived.

The Snohomish County Medical Examiners Officer will determine the cause of death.

Both deputies involved have been place on paid administrative leave, in accordance with normal procedure in these types of incidents.

One deputy is 29 years old, with three years experience with the Sheriff's Office. The other is 26, with three years experience with the Sheriff's Office and one year with the King County Sheriff's Office.

The incident was the second Taser death this week in the Puget Sound region.

In the previous incident, on Tuesday, Pierce County sheriff's deputies deployed their Tasers on a man who was resisting arrest after breaking into a Spanaway apartment.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:35:23 AM EDT
I am going to go out on a limb and say drugs are involved somewhere...
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:42:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoberDude:



http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100904/NEWS01/100909899

It's official. A taser is a deadly weapon and should be dealt with as such when confronted by one.

How is it that the bad guys always got arrested before tasers and mace were used?
If you can't arrest somebody without a high voltage gadget, you have no fucking business whatsoever being a cop.

I think the caliber of BG has changed somewhat since the days when Marshal Dillon ruled the street. No one really wants to retire with fucked up joints, artificial parts and chronic pain anymore. One of my favorite old sayings is, "I wear a badge to protect you. I wear a gun to protect me." Nowdays, the typical response to police interaction involves a greater degree of violence than Andy and Barney encountered. Granted, it looks bad in the media, but, more often than not, the media have conveniently omitted parts of the story. Ask me how I know, at the next lcr over a brew.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:01:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bobbitybobbity:
I think the caliber of BG has changed somewhat since the days when Marshal Dillon ruled the street. No one really wants to retire with fucked up joints, artificial parts and chronic pain anymore. One of my favorite old sayings is, "I wear a badge to protect you. I wear a gun to protect me." Nowdays, the typical response to police interaction involves a greater degree of violence than Andy and Barney encountered. Granted, it looks bad in the media, but, more often than not, the media have conveniently omitted parts of the story. Ask me how I know, at the next lcr over a brew.

Yes and no. Gunsmoke and Andy Griffith were TV shows. Pure fiction. The bad guys of previous generations may have even been worse to deal with in many aspects. Modern law enforcement has automatic weapons, body armor, endless back up, and a Supreme Court ruling stating they have no responsibility to protect citizens. Marshall Dillion had a horse and a Peacemaker. Also, bad guys of years gone by had a much better chance of killing a lawman and disappearing into thin air to never be seen again.

And here's the big one, there were not so many laws back then that everything short of your very existence put you at odds with law enforcement which has in effect created a great divide between the citizenry and LEO.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:05:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DrewXD:
I am going to go out on a limb and say drugs are involved somewhere...


AND alcohol... There is a huge homeless camp in Sultan. The like to stay under the 311th st bridge. Fights happen there all the time.

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:14:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spankybear:
The like to stay under the 311th st bridge. Fights happen there all the time.


The first rule about fights under the 311th st bridge is we don't talk about fights under the 311th st bridge.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:19:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By spankybear:
The like to stay under the 311th st bridge. Fights happen there all the time.


The first rule about fights under the 311th st bridge is we don't talk about fights under the 311th st bridge.


Is that "we" as the "we the shit bag criminals" that need to be dispatched?
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:34:44 AM EDT
I was really surprised by the number of homeless folks that live in or around Sultan.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:36:15 AM EDT
What ever happed to the PR24... I thought that was very effective and with proper training is a good defensive weapon. Guess I thought wrong...
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:37:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 11:38:54 AM EDT by DrewXD]
Rodney King.

With proper training the PR-24 is an extremely effective defensive and compliance tool.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:38:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gibby:
I was really surprised by the number of homeless folks that live in or around Sultan.


It's a fairly new phenomena... You know since about the time OBAMA got into office
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:44:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DrewXD:
Rodney King.

With proper training the PR-24 is an extremely effective defensive and compliance tool.


You know they also tased him...
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:46:13 AM EDT
Notice the bold and italics?
Too many cops are not properly trained with anything but the "shortcut" devices. Like the taser.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:54:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 11:57:31 AM EDT by YOPD]
Originally Posted By DoberDude:
Modern law enforcement has automatic weapons, body armor, endless back up,


(regarding the part in red)



You clearly live where help is about a couple of minutes away. This is not true for the rest of WA state, where in places like where live, and someone is trying to break into your home, it can take 30 minutes for a deputy to get there, and they send one because there isn't another one available at the moment. That means where some folks live, there isn't even one cop, much less your idea of endless backup.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:59:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By YOPD:
Originally Posted By DoberDude:
Modern law enforcement has automatic weapons, body armor, endless back up,


(regarding the part in red)

http://orlyowl.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/orly.jpg

You clearly live where help is about a couple of minutes away. This is not true for the rest of WA state, where in places like where live, and someone is trying to break into your home, it can take 30 minutes for a deputy to get there, and they send one because there isn't another one available at the moment. That means where some folks live, there isn't even one cop, much less your idea of endless backup.


On his defense... he didn't was timely
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:03:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DrewXD:
Notice the bold and italics?
Too many cops are not properly trained with anything but the "shortcut" devices. Like the taser.


Originally Posted By spankybear:
What ever happed to the PR24... I thought that was very effective and with proper training is a good defensive weapon. Guess I thought wrong...


yes I did...
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:13:20 PM EDT
I smell several lawsuits.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:38:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 12:40:06 PM EDT by DoberDude]

Originally Posted By YOPD:
Originally Posted By DoberDude:
Modern law enforcement has automatic weapons, body armor, endless back up,


(regarding the part in red)

http://orlyowl.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/orly.jpg

You clearly live where help is about a couple of minutes away. This is not true for the rest of WA state, where in places like where live, and someone is trying to break into your home, it can take 30 minutes for a deputy to get there, and they send one because there isn't another one available at the moment. That means where some folks live, there isn't even one cop, much less your idea of endless backup.

No, wrong. I live rural. At on time where I live 40% of calls to SnoHoCo Sherrif went unanswered ( REF: Everett Herald). Response time where I live can exceed 40 minutes.

As for the endless back up statement. Yes they have infinite back up. I meant that from a practical standpoint, not a response time standpoint. The next cop you see, kick him in the nuts, see how many show up and whip your ass.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:42:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoberDude:
The next cop you see, kick him in the nuts, see how many show up* and whip your ass.


*Before, or after I get into the next state? Sure, somebody that is stupid enough to stick around for 20 minutes after kicking a cop in the nuts deserves to have his ass kicked by a dozen more cops.

Things don't happen that way. Bad guy fights with a cop, someone gets hurt, preferably the bad guy. Period. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:43:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By YOPD:
Originally Posted By DoberDude:
Modern law enforcement has automatic weapons, body armor, endless back up,


(regarding the part in red)

http://orlyowl.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/orly.jpg

You clearly live where help is about a couple of minutes away. This is not true for the rest of WA state, where in places like where live, and someone is trying to break into your home, it can take 30 minutes for a deputy to get there, and they send one because there isn't another one available at the moment. That means where some folks live, there isn't even one cop, much less your idea of endless backup.

No, wrong. I live rural. At on time where I live 40% of calls to SnoHoCo Sherrif went unanswered ( REF: Everett Herald). Response time where I live can exceed 40 minutes.

As for the endless back up statement. Yes they have infinite back up. I meant that from a practical standpoint, not a response time standpoint. The next cop you see, kick him in the nuts, see how many show up and whip your ass.


Case in point, when they closed down I-5 through Everett last week becase a suspect had shot at the deputy during the chase, I'm pretty sure that every department in Snohomish County had units respond to assist.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:44:43 PM EDT
Drugs are bad.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:51:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gibby:
Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By YOPD:
Originally Posted By DoberDude:
Modern law enforcement has automatic weapons, body armor, endless back up,


(regarding the part in red)

http://orlyowl.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/orly.jpg

You clearly live where help is about a couple of minutes away. This is not true for the rest of WA state, where in places like where live, and someone is trying to break into your home, it can take 30 minutes for a deputy to get there, and they send one because there isn't another one available at the moment. That means where some folks live, there isn't even one cop, much less your idea of endless backup.

No, wrong. I live rural. At on time where I live 40% of calls to SnoHoCo Sherrif went unanswered ( REF: Everett Herald). Response time where I live can exceed 40 minutes.

As for the endless back up statement. Yes they have infinite back up. I meant that from a practical standpoint, not a response time standpoint. The next cop you see, kick him in the nuts, see how many show up and whip your ass.


Case in point, when they closed down I-5 through Everett last week becase a suspect had shot at the deputy during the chase, I'm pretty sure that every department in Snohomish County had units respond to assist.
Yes, case in point.
The assault/gassing and subsequent burning of the woman and children at Waco included everything up to Fort Hood tanks and DELTA force Rangers.
Don't fucking tell me they don't have back up. WTF?
http://www.counterpunch.org/waco2.html
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 12:56:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By Gibby:
Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By YOPD:
Originally Posted By DoberDude:
<SNIP>[/span][/span]


<SNIP>

<SNIP>


<SNIP>
Yes, case in point.
The assault/gassing and subsequent burning of the woman and children at Waco included everything up to Fort Hood tanks and DELTA force Rangers.
Don't fucking tell me they don't have back up. WTF?
http://www.counterpunch.org/waco2.html


You just played the "Waco" card...

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:00:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spankybear:


You just played the "Waco" card...



OOPs.... Perfect example though.

Like they don't have radios and won't put enough boots on the ground.

Puh-Leeeze.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:04:23 PM EDT
But how long does that kind of response take, and why didn't all the efforts to catch the Barefoot Bandit work, with this endless amount of backup available?

We can pick and choose examples all day long, but the bottom line is most criminal apprehensions take place in seconds or minutes, not hours or days.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:10:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 1:11:14 PM EDT by spankybear]
Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By spankybear:


You just played the "Waco" card...



OOPs.... Perfect example though.

Like they don't have radios and won't put enough boots on the ground.

Puh-Leeeze.



Waco was good if you look at things like Vini...

I'm just fine with cops ENDING criminals


"so many criminals running free among us"

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:14:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By YOPD:
But how long does that kind of response take, and why didn't all the efforts to catch the Barefoot Bandit work, with this endless amount of backup available?

We can pick and choose examples all day long, but the bottom line is most criminal apprehensions take place in seconds or minutes, not hours or days.


WOW I had no idea they had the Rangers after Colton Harris-Moore. He's good
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:17:55 PM EDT
No one in North America could catch him. Kinda makes me wonder if they were really trying.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:44:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jonathon:
Drugs are bad.


MmmKay

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:57:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By YOPD:
But how long does that kind of response take,.


Your point doesn't matter because he said unlimited backup, not immediate backup. You're trying to make it sound like he's saying they can't get away. What he's saying is they can't get away for ever.

When the sheriff had a peacemaker and a horse, if you got away from the first LEO, it was a very real possibility you could live the rest of your life without being bothered. Now, unless you can get away before the LEO has a chance to identify you and call it in, you'll be "hunted" until they catch you, even if it takes decades (like the Unabomber).
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 2:04:00 PM EDT
Ok, I can see that point, when it is esplained that way.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 4:21:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BusySquirrel:
Originally Posted By YOPD:
But how long does that kind of response take,.


Your point doesn't matter because he said unlimited backup, not immediate backup. You're trying to make it sound like he's saying they can't get away. What he's saying is they can't get away for ever.

When the sheriff had a peacemaker and a horse, if you got away from the first LEO, it was a very real possibility you could live the rest of your life without being bothered. Now, unless you can get away before the LEO has a chance to identify you and call it in, you'll be "hunted" until they catch you, even if it takes decades (like the Unabomber).

Thank you. That is PRECISELY what I meant.

No surprise whatsoever my original post was taken off on twisted tangent of purposeful misunderstanding, symantical errors, absurd interpretations and ill percieved intent.
Cuz that's how we roll around here.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 4:33:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spankybear:
Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By spankybear:
The like to stay under the 311th st bridge. Fights happen there all the time.


The first rule about fights under the 311th st bridge is we don't talk about fights under the 311th st bridge.


Is that "we" as the "we the shit bag criminals" that need to be dispatched?

That was a reference to "Fight Club"...contrails overhead, over.

I guess tazers in WA are fusion-powered, eh? They're like phuckin' phasers!
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 4:39:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ViniVidivici:

Originally Posted By spankybear:
Originally Posted By DoberDude:

Originally Posted By spankybear:
The like to stay under the 311th st bridge. Fights happen there all the time.


The first rule about fights under the 311th st bridge is we don't talk about fights under the 311th st bridge.


Is that "we" as the "we the shit bag criminals" that need to be dispatched?

That was a reference to "Fight Club"...contrails overhead, over.

I guess tazers in WA are fusion-powered, eh? They're like phuckin' phasers!


Plasma rifles in the 40 watt range?

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 5:39:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoberDude:



http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100904/NEWS01/100909899

It's official. A taser is a deadly weapon and should be dealt with as such when confronted by one.

How is it that the bad guys always got arrested before tasers and mace were used?
If you can't arrest somebody without a high voltage gadget, you have no fucking business whatsoever being a cop.

People got their ass beat and ended up in the hospital or dead. Flashlight massages were the norm, with good ol 4 "C" cell maglights making their characteristic sound. Knees got smashed and broken, as well as jaws, wrists, and shoulders. Fighting often ends up with both sides getting injured, and Officers would be on leave with injuries. Tazers are a "Less lethal" device, not "NON lethal". Danger is still present, but it is far less than otherwise available options.


Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:06:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:

Originally Posted By DoberDude:



http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100904/NEWS01/100909899

It's official. A taser is a deadly weapon and should be dealt with as such when confronted by one.

How is it that the bad guys always got arrested before tasers and mace were used?
If you can't arrest somebody without a high voltage gadget, you have no fucking business whatsoever being a cop.

People got their ass beat and ended up in the hospital or dead. Flashlight massages were the norm, with good ol 4 "C" cell maglights making their characteristic sound. Knees got smashed and broken, as well as jaws, wrists, and shoulders. Fighting often ends up with both sides getting injured, and Officers would be on leave with injuries. Tazers are a "Less lethal" device, not "NON lethal". Danger is still present, but it is far less than otherwise available options.



Remind me to never piss you off.


Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:45:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:

Originally Posted By DoberDude:



http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100904/NEWS01/100909899

It's official. A taser is a deadly weapon and should be dealt with as such when confronted by one.

How is it that the bad guys always got arrested before tasers and mace were used?
If you can't arrest somebody without a high voltage gadget, you have no fucking business whatsoever being a cop.

People got their ass beat and ended up in the hospital or dead. Flashlight massages were the norm, with good ol 4 "C" cell maglights making their characteristic sound. Knees got smashed and broken, as well as jaws, wrists, and shoulders. Fighting often ends up with both sides getting injured, and Officers would be on leave with injuries. Tazers are a "Less lethal" device, not "NON lethal". Danger is still present, but it is far less than otherwise available options.


I double-dog dare ya ta NAME THAT SOUND!

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:46:21 PM EDT
When I was a kid I enjoyed TONKa toy trucks.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:54:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:56:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Before Tasers, cops used batons to beat a person into submission.

I'll stop you when I find something wrong with this statement.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:31:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoberDude:


Gunsmoke and Andy Griffith were TV shows. Pure fiction.

No shit? I had no clue. Now where does that leave me?
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:55:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:39:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoberDude:



http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100904/NEWS01/100909899

It's official. A taser is a deadly weapon and should be dealt with as such when confronted by one.

How is it that the bad guys always got arrested before tasers and mace were used?
If you can't arrest somebody without a high voltage gadget, you have no fucking business whatsoever being a cop.


They used to hit people with sticks.



Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:53:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spankybear:
What ever happed to the PR24... I thought that was very effective and with proper training is a good defensive weapon. Guess I thought wrong...


Folks died after being hit with them. Folks died even if they weren't hit with the PR-24.

Hint. The same stuff that makes the idiot go nuts and need to taken down, is the same stuff that kills them.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 3:28:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Tazers are a "Less lethal" device, not "NON lethal". Danger is still present, but it is far less than otherwise available options.



I for one am ok with using a less lethal device, as long as the officer knows it's less lethal (not non-lethal) and uses it in fitting situations. It sounds like you know the difference, but I'd bet there are a few cops who don't think about the difference.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 10:58:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 8:09:27 PM EDT by charliez]

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Tazers are a "Less lethal" device, not "NON lethal". Danger is still present, but it is far less than otherwise available options.

Used against impaired / unhealthy individuals, tasers are lethal in combination with:
1. alcohol
2. drugs (whether prescription or illegals)
3. health condition (weak heart, history of heart disease, etc).

Even a person who otherwise appears healthy, young, and able to withstand a taser, certain heart conditions that only presents when the heart is under extreme exertion such as over-exercising. Being tasered goes well beyond and above of over-exercising the heart.

Given the above the question is then still whether LE should be allowed to shoot first and lawyer later?

Still, I think taking away the taser would increase shooting events, vs. use of de-escalation or non-lethal force use.
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