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Posted: 3/24/2009 3:36:51 AM EDT
http://www.wbng.com/news/local/41720232.html

I just saw this on the news. I can understand the threats, but what makes these illegal?
Link Posted: 3/24/2009 4:01:12 AM EDT
it makes me laff how that one bitch "those guns dont belong in a small town like this"

like she decides what guns we have in what towns..... fuckin retards

the only thing i could understand be ing illegal is that they were both convicted of mistemenors in the past.. cant certain crimes make it illegal to own firearms?
Link Posted: 3/24/2009 4:34:01 AM EDT
unfortunately the ak's aren't even the real issue here. they just got dragged into it by the media and these two idiots. the real issue is "wimps" who think they can threaten people from behind their computer monitor and keyboard without the consequences. a threat is a threat no matter how it's made. i haven't watched the you-tube vids of the two clowns, and never will, but if guns were displayed, then they deserve some sort of punishment and not allowed to own a firearm anymore. and i added the no firearm part just so they can't add any more fuel to the anti's fire. threats like these must be taken seriously, but the media definately had a hard-on to let us all know two ak-47s were confiscated.
Link Posted: 3/24/2009 4:36:39 AM EDT
One was an SKS w/ 30 round clip and bayo,
The other was a WASR.

The SKS may not have been 922(r) but the wasr should have ben fine
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 2:24:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2009 8:35:59 PM EDT by NY_Shooter]
Originally Posted By chrisben:
One was an SKS w/ 30 round clip and bayo,
The other was a WASR.

The SKS may not have been 922(r) but the wasr should have ben fine


I wonder what their previous misdemeanor charges were. I was under the impression that only felony convictions prohibited you from owning guns.

::Edited out my mistake::
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 2:50:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Originally Posted By chrisben:
One was an SKS w/ 30 round clip and bayo,
The other was a WASR.

The SKS may not have been 922(r) but the wasr should have ben fine


The bayo-lug on the SKS makes it illegal in NY, unless it was pre-ban.


I wonder what their previous misdemeanor charges were. I was under the impression that only felony convictions prohibited you from owning guns.


The bayolug is fine since you are allowed two evil features. Since there is no pistol grip, your evil features are the bayo-lug and ability to accept a high cap mag.

Did anyone catch this gem at the end:

Ferris says it is not legal in the state to own the type of rifles the pair had unless they had legally purchased or obtained them before Sept. 14, 1994.

As Ferris points out, the men would have been ages 6 and 10 at that time.


I have purchased pre-bans in a gunstore. Obviously, I was not the original owner. Is the officer referring to a downstate law?



Link Posted: 3/25/2009 2:53:40 AM EDT
Sgt Ferris says the charges fall under a New York State law making it a felony to possess assault weapons, including some makes and models of the AK-47 rifle.

Ferris says it is not legal in the state to own the type of rifles the pair had unless they had legally purchased or obtained them before Sept. 14, 1994.

As Ferris points out, the men would have been ages 6 and 10 at that time


I guess you can't legally transfer firearms that were built before 1994 huh? This is the problem with with the majority of gun laws in New York, none of the cops actually know what is allowed and what is not
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 4:08:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2009 4:20:45 AM EDT by LuvBUSHmaster]
Originally Posted By PaperStreet:
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Originally Posted By chrisben:
One was an SKS w/ 30 round clip and bayo,
The other was a WASR.

The SKS may not have been 922(r) but the wasr should have ben fine


The bayo-lug on the SKS makes it illegal in NY, unless it was pre-ban.


I wonder what their previous misdemeanor charges were. I was under the impression that only felony convictions prohibited you from owning guns.


The bayolug is fine since you are allowed two evil features. Since there is no pistol grip, your evil features are the bayo-lug and ability to accept a high cap mag.

Did anyone catch this gem at the end:

Ferris says it is not legal in the state to own the type of rifles the pair had unless they had legally purchased or obtained them before Sept. 14, 1994.

As Ferris points out, the men would have been ages 6 and 10 at that time.


I have purchased pre-bans in a gunstore. Obviously, I was not the original owner. Is the officer referring to a downstate law?





No, That particular LEO is a moron and an anti-RKBA POS. Officer Ferris speaks as if he is an authority on some nonexistant State law. Major f-ups in understanding the AWB like this doesn't instill confidence in his abilities as a LEO.

Yes there are a gazillion laws/codes and LEO's have a generally shitty job dealing with societal scum; but to go on camera and speak out of your ass about laws that simply don't exist and be in the the capacity as a LEO to arrest, confiscate, and in general ruin someone's life because your grasp of the NY Assault Weapons ban is beyond skewed and based on fiction, well that raises the pucker factor by a multiplied amount when just driving to and from the range with lawfully/legally owned firearms.

eta: This post in no way condones the idiotic threats and unlawful past history that these 2 POS kids in the article were doing. One of those two "Crooked Mafia" suspects was arrested for beating on his dog a short time ago. Quality people there
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 4:28:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By chrisben:
One was an SKS w/ 30 round clip and bayo,
The other was a WASR.

The SKS may not have been 922(r) but the wasr should have ben fine


The hangup with the State Penal Law would be if the mags were hi-cap post bans ala TAPCO hi cap SKS mags, if the WASR-10 had been modified post import/transfer by adding a folding stock, or if the SKS had a drop in telescoping/pistol grip stock ala the TAPCO (Crapco) Fusion or a Butler Creek folder.

922(r) would be a tack on charge and I'm pretty sure those towny LEO's and ADA's haven't been boning up on their Federal import restrictive clauses and how firearms that have been modified can fall out of compliance with the Sporting Purposes section of 922 or how many parts need to be changed to US made parts to stay in compliance...just a guess as they have zero grasp of the State AWB as shown by their quotes in the linked article.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:35:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PaperStreet:
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Originally Posted By chrisben:
One was an SKS w/ 30 round clip and bayo,
The other was a WASR.

The SKS may not have been 922(r) but the wasr should have ben fine


The bayo-lug on the SKS makes it illegal in NY, unless it was pre-ban.


I wonder what their previous misdemeanor charges were. I was under the impression that only felony convictions prohibited you from owning guns.


The bayolug is fine since you are allowed two evil features. Since there is no pistol grip, your evil features are the bayo-lug and ability to accept a high cap mag.


You're absolutely right. I think I mentally threw a PG on that SKS.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 8:37:00 PM EDT
So what about the previous charges thing?

Am I wrong in assuming it's only felony convictions that prohibit you from owning guns? Or can certain misdemeanors do the same?
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 11:48:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
So what about the previous charges thing?

Am I wrong in assuming it's only felony convictions that prohibit you from owning guns? Or can certain misdemeanors do the same?



DV charges
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:36:24 AM EDT
Being a Cop means you know the law





Because you are the law...
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 3:09:42 AM EDT
Actually Groton is more on the fringe of the Southern Tier , lots of older Yuppies
around there.

As a FORMER NY/ S.Tier resident let me just say there will be more stories like this as
NY transforms itself into Kali East.

If you like to shoot ARs- AKs and such , prepare to be stigmatized as a Nutcase.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:32:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AKsRule:
Actually Groton is more on the fringe of the Southern Tier , lots of older Yuppies
around there.

As a FORMER NY/ S.Tier resident let me just say there will be more stories like this as
NY transforms itself into Kali East.

If you like to shoot ARs- AKs and such , prepare to be stigmatized as a Nutcase.


Actually, Groton is fairly blue collar for the most part, with many remnants of the older generation that worked at the former assembly plants and farmers still in the area.
Scott isn't anti-gun, but I fear that the DAs office is taking a very liberal reading of the NYS AW law in giving him its recomendations on what charges to proceed with.


http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/20090323/NEWS01/90323002/1002/NEWS17
2 arrested in Groton with AK-47s
By Raymond Drumsta • Staff Writer • March 23, 2009

Read Comments(141)
Groton Police have arrested two men and confiscated two semi-automatic AK-47 assault rifles following a nearly three-month investigation and a multi-agency operation based on neighbors’ complaints and threatening Internet videos the men allegedly produced.

Jeremey Truesdail, 25, and Allester L. Forest, 21, of Groton are each charged with two counts of third-degree criminal possession of a weapon, a Class D felony, said Groton Police Sgt. Scott Ferris. Officers also found a “fair quantity of ammunition” for the weapons and a male and female pitbull after serving a search warrant at 184 Main St., Apt. 1, in Groton, he said.

Groton Police Investigator Peter T. Hughes said the pair had purchased the weapons recently, and that one of the rifles was equipped with a bayonet. New York state Penal Law defines the AK-47 as an assault weapon and prohibits people from possessing them unless they were “lawfully possessed prior to Sept. 14, 1994.”


About 35 to 40 law-enforcement personnel, including Groton Police, Ithaca Police and Tompkins County Sheriff’s Office SWAT officers, the county Critical Incident Negotiations Team, New York State Police and Onondaga County Sheriff’s deputies in their brand-new armored personnel carrier took part in the arrest at about 6 a.m. Saturday, Ferris said.


The investigation began around the first of the year and was spearheaded by Hughes, Ferris said. Officers discovered Truesdail and Forest had posted videos on YouTube showing the weapons and ammunition, he added.


The pair had also made racial comments and threats to the Groton community and police in the videos, Ferris said, and some viewers responded by posting threats in the comment sections of the videos’ Web pages. Truesdail and Forest responded in kind in the comment sections, threatening the viewers who posted, the community and police with their guns and dogs, Ferris added.


Based on the videos and neighbors’ complaints, officers obtained a search warrant, Ferris said. The nature of the videos, which were taken down after officers used computer resources to capture and save them as evidence, made the show of force necessary, he explained.


Hughes put “a lot of time and effort” into the investigation, Ferris said, including hours of surveillance and research.


“This was a long planned-out operation,” Ferris said. He also credited new Groton Village Mayor Jeff Evener and Groton Village Administrator Charles Rankin for freeing up village assets to support the investigation.


“They freed up the manpower to allow this investigation to go forward,” he said.


Truesdail and Forest were arraigned in Groton Town Court and sent to Tompkins County Jail on $25,000 bail, and are scheduled to return to court on Thursday, Groton Police officials said.


Truesdail has three children who are ages 6 years, 2 years and 14 months old, Ferris said, and County Child Protective Services ordered their grandmother to take custody of them.


The dogs, which were in good health, were turned over to Country Acres Pet Services in Homer, he added.


http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/20090325/NEWS01/903250321/1002/NEWS17

Police clarify terms for guns seized Saturday
Groton Police officials have clarified that they seized an AK-47 rifle and an SKS rifle, which they said are illegal assault weapons, during the arrest of two men on Saturday.

They originally said the rifles were AK-47s, and later said "AK-47" was the generic term for the weapons.

The case was reported on page 1A in Monday's edition and 2A Tuesday.




Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:48:10 AM EDT
If they convict these guys for not having bought the weapons (if they are indeed pre-bans) before 1994 does that mean we are all screwed too? Would that be legal precedent? Also, doesn't the white guy sorta look like Chirstian Bale?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:55:18 AM EDT
Since NY adopted the old Federal ban almost word for word, I have to believe that the intent and interpretation of that laws meanings would have some weight here, and that law generally was interpreted to mean that you could possess stuff made pre-1994, and that you didn't have to actually own it in 1994
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 9:47:40 AM EDT
Actually the guns in question aren't classified as assault weapons, so i don't even see where when they were made comes into play at all. Its just more proof of how they don't know what they are talking about.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 1:20:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 1:59:55 AM EDT by tc556guy]
Originally Posted By jma5000:
Actually the guns in question aren't classified as assault weapons, so i don't even see where when they were made comes into play at all. Its just more proof of how they don't know what they are talking about.


Comes into play because apparently the departments ADAs are interpreting the state AW ban as requiring you to have possessed a particular rifle in '94 for it to be legal. That would add a new wrinkle to the law which would affect a lot of NY gun owners if its adopted as a valid interpretation of the law.

Update:
Judge grants release of 2 in Groton gun case; county doesn't present evidence
By Raymond Drumsta • rdrumsta@gannett.com • March 27, 2009

GROTON - The cases of two Groton men arrested for allegedly possessing assault rifles are pending in Groton Town Court as attorneys analyze the evidence.



Jeremy Truesdail, 25, and Allester L. Forest, 21, meanwhile, were granted releases because the Tompkins County District Attorney's office did not present evidence at their preliminary felony hearing Thursday. The pair, who were sent to Tompkins County Jail in lieu of $25,000 bail, pleaded not guilty to two counts of third-degree possession of a weapon, a Class D felony, at the hearing.

District Attorney Gwen Wilkinson said they didn't present their evidence because they're still analyzing it. She called it "fairly technical evidence" and said they're seeking an expert to testify in court that the rifles are assault weapons.

"They have to be released on their own recognizance if we don't present evidence," she said, adding that they're considering presenting the cases to the grand jury.

Forest's attorney Robert Lalonde couldn't be reached for comment Thursday, but Truesdail's attorney Lance Salisbury said the charges will be dismissed if the district attorney's office doesn't indict the pair in the next six months.

Truesdail and Forest were arrested Saturday morning following a nearly three-month investigation based on neighbors' complaints, confidential informants and threatening videos they allegedly produced and posted on YouTube, Groton Police officials said. Officers confiscated an AK-47 rifle and an SKS rifle after serving a search warrant at their Groton apartment at 184 Main St., they added.

Officers began investigating around the first of the year, Groton Police Sgt. Scott Ferris said, and found two videos in which Truesdail and Forest make racial comments and general death threats to the Groton community, Groton Police and other law enforcement officers. In one video, they wear bandanas over their faces, dance with the weapons to a rap song and threaten these groups, saying they'll "kill them," "shoot them" or "pop them" with their weapons, he said.

(2 of 2)


Police had probable cause to arrest Truesdail and Forest, Wilkinson emphasized, and the basis for the search warrant was sound.



The search warrant, signed by Groton Town Judge Arthur D. Dawson, authorized officers to seize "any AK-47 weapon, or copy or duplicate thereof, or other weapon that would be classified as an 'assault weapon' as that term is defined in New York State Penal Law 265.00(22)." It also directed officers to confiscate magazines and ammunition "associated" with those weapons, along with documents related to the weapons' purchase, ownership or possession.

Salisbury said he is researching the legality of the weapons, adding that Truesdail told police he had purchased the AK-47.

"It's my understanding that the AK-47 was purchased from a gun dealer who certified it as New York state-compliant," Salisbury said, adding that the gun dealer conducted the proper criminal background checks and other requirements. The SKS rifle might have been purchased legally as well, he said, and the weapons are not fully automatic.

"That would make them illegal," he said. "For a weapon to be considered an assault weapon, it has to have certain characteristics." This includes more than two of a list of features, such as telescoping or folding stock, a bayonet mount or a flash suppressor, Salisbury said.

Salisbury said neither of the weapons exceeds the limits outlined in the law, which he said is confusing and poorly written.

"The law is a little confusing when you look at it," he said. "It's a poorly-written statute."

Salisbury declined to comment on any probable causes related to the cases.

The seized rifles have characteristics, such as the ability to take high-capacity magazines and bayonet features, which make them assault weapons under the law, Ferris said earlier in the week. It's illegal to own the particular rifles the pair had, unless they were legally purchased or obtained before Sept. 14, 1994 he said.

Ferris also said the pair had misdemeanor conviction and felony arrest records, and had recently purchased the weapons "out of town" and returned to Groton with them.

About a dozen people attended the hearing in Groton Town Court Thursday, listening as Groton Town Judge John Norman read a letter from the district attorney's office that said they wouldn't be presenting evidence.

Norman scheduled the cases for review in July.

Forest was released from Tompkins County Jail around noon on Thursday, but Truesdail remained to serve out a 15-day sentence for third-degree aggravated unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle, which he pleaded guilty to Wednesday. Groton Police charged Truesdail with that, resisting arrest and obstructing governmental administration in February, court records said, and he was also ordered to pay an $85 surcharge.



Link Posted: 3/27/2009 2:39:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 2:40:44 AM EDT by emsjeep]
Well, for all of those who ask "Do I need a certified letter from the manufacturer that the lower was produced and assembled before 9/1994," the answer now is, "No," the Police aren't intelligent enough to be able to figure out that that might even be required, you are at the same risk as anyone who owns anything that might be considered an "assault rifle," letter or no letter, legal or not, you will be hauled in, arrested and humiliated. In short, there is no way to adaquately predict and address all of thier possible misinterpretations, if you own a gun you may be subject to arrest.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:02:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:09:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 7:11:58 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Since NY adopted the old Federal ban almost word for word, I have to believe that the intent and interpretation of that laws meanings would have some weight here, and that law generally was interpreted to mean that you could possess stuff made pre-1994, and that you didn't have to actually own it in 1994

They are barking up the wrong tree. They can piss and moan all they want but the ATF made it clear that possession by a person on or prior to 09-13-1994 referred to a person, dealer, manufacturer, importer or distributor etc. Preban rifles that were lawfully possessed by ANYONE were exempt from the Federal AWB and were fully transferable during the ten year period the ban was in effect. The intent of the NY AWB when it was enacted into law in 11-2000 was to mirror the provisions of federal law as well as the federal exclusions and exemptions and was not intended to prohibit possession of any weapon that was not prohibited by federal law.

Hopefully 762 is on the case and will explain to the prosecutor's what the difference is between a rifle and an assault weapon as it relates to the NY AWB.


www.ny.gov/governor/press/00/aug9_00.htm (link now dead)

Assault Weapons Ban: Effective on November 1, 2000

The new law also establishes criminal sanctions for the possession and sale of assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices in New York State. Since 1994, federal law has restricted the possession of assault weapons and large capacity ammunition clips. This measure mirrors the federal provisions and definitions of "assault weapon" and "large capacity ammunition feeding device," as well as the exclusions and exemptions applicable to each.

As a result of this legislation, State prosecutors will now be able to prosecute the possession and sale of assault weapons. It will be a Class D violent felony to possess either an assault weapon or a large capacity ammunition feeding device, and a Class D felony to unlawfully sell an assault weapon or large capacity ammunition clip that was manufactured after September 14, 1994.



New York Legislative Memorandum, 2000 Ch. 189

Memorandum in Support, New York State Senate:

Establishing an Assault Weapons Ban in New York

Since 1994, federal law has restricted the possession of assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices. The provisions contained in this measure are designed to ensure that New York State's already stringent gun laws mirror the federal provisions.

The bill's definition of an "assault weapon" and a "large capacity ammunition feeding device," as well as the exclusions and exemptions applicable to each, mirror the current provisions of federal law defining and prohibiting activities related to a "semiautomatic assault weapon" and a "large capacity ammunition feeding device" (see 18 U.S.C.§§ 921[a][30], [31] and 922 [V.] and [w]) and the bill is not intended to prohibit possession of any weapon that is not prohibited by federal law.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:19:20 AM EDT
That wording is of interest as I always felt that, if the law doesn't exist on the Fedearal Books, how can the NYS law
which references it be enforceable?

Billy

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 1:42:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 3:00:57 PM EDT by 762DM]
This is being taken care of...
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 2:09:54 PM EDT
These things are never all what they seem, rest assured that the DA's office called me to merely give credence to their beliefs.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 2:50:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 762DM:
These things are never all what they seem, rest assured that the DA's office called me to merely give credence to their beliefs.

And there beliefs were.....
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 5:01:56 PM EDT
Without going into an open case, they called me specifically to back up what they already knew.....
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 5:39:05 PM EDT
Gotcha. The answer is obvious now.

http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/20090327/NEWS01/903270322

The two rifles that were confiscated during the arrest Saturday of Jeremey Truesdail, 25, and Allester L. Forest, 21, of Groton. (Provided / Groton Police Department)



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