Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/11/2005 2:34:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 2:38:06 PM EDT by ThePrisoner72]
For the past 5 weeks I done reading here at AR15.com about preban vs post ban. I picked up an Olympic Arms preban stripped lower from a dealer. I jumped in without investigating wether or not it was a legally grandfathered preban. Come to find out Olympic Arms lost all records to this question, all they can tell me is my lower was manufactured around 1991. I should have read the NY State AWB but I jumped into this lower receiver anyway. Thanks to all here who posted some great info, especially rkbar15. A pinned RRA collapsibe stock is now on and my RRA post ban upper receiver with the pressed on fake flash hider. It is better to be safe than sorry. Doing prison time isn't my bag. Thanks again to all here with your help in defining NYS Law. Down the road maybe I'll find a legal preban lower at a fair price and add all the evil features. Until than chow.

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:27:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 4:41:05 PM EDT by Raptor22]
According to the way I read the NYS AWB below and the fact that Oly says that it was manufactured prior to 1994, the answer is as clear as mud:


22. "Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an
ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the
following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
flash suppressor;
(v) a grenade launcher; or
(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the
pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm
with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is
unloaded;
(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm;
or
(d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such
weapons
, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known
as:

(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all
models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street
Sweeper and Striker 12;



N.B.: section (d) was not in the Federal AWB. It is all a matter of what they define functioning frames or receivers as. My guess is that this does not include stripped receivers. So, your caution is warranted.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:30:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 7:31:40 AM EDT by rkbar15]
I believe if you are going to err it should be on the side of caution. As much as everyone hates the ATF they did provide formal opinions and guidance in complying with the Federal AWB. In NY you're on your own and at the mercy of hundreds of independently operating police departments across the state with no guidance from anyone.

If the preban status of a rifle is questionable it's just not worth it to me to incur the potential legal liability. A flash suppressor, collapsible stock or bayo lug adds nothing to the basic functionality of the rifle.

If you want a SAW get a named SAW or have the written documentation (preferably from the manufacturer) to establish that. If you think the legal status of your rifle won't ever be questioned by a LEO think again. All it takes is a call to 911 from a current or ex-GF, ex-wife or a wacky neighbor about your illegal MG. In the case of oneshot1kill he got jammed up by doing nothing more then taking his legal cased rifle out of his truck when a passerby called the PD.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 9:24:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 1:33:11 PM EDT by Raptor22]

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
I believe if you are going to err it should be on the side of caution. As much as everyone hates the ATF they did provide formal opinions and guidance in complying with the Federal AWB. In NY you're on your own and at the mercy of hundreds of independently operating police departments across the state with no guidance from anyone.

If the preban status of a rifle is questionable it's just not worth it to me to incur the potential legal liability. A flash suppressor, collapsible stock or bayo lug adds nothing to the basic functionality of the rifle.

If you want a SAW get a named SAW or have the written documentation (preferably from the manufacturer) to establish that. If you think the legal status of your rifle won't ever be questioned by a LEO think again. All it takes is a call to 911 from a current or ex-GF, ex-wife or a wacky neighbor about your illegal MG. In the case of oneshot1kill he got jammed up by doing nothing more then taking his legal cased rifle out of his truck when a passerby called the PD.



Thank you for reminding me of what pure hell is like. He had given me all the details of his troubles. That is a sterling example of what can happen and then you have to pay big bucks to clear your name. [sarcasm]BTW, Spitzer is supposed to review our AWB and clarify any gray areas.[/sarcasm]
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 9:50:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 10:31:06 AM EDT
Don't worry Governor Spitzer will straighten it all out in January 2007.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 11:23:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

If the preban status of a rifle is questionable it's just not worth it to me to incur the potential legal liability. A flash suppressor, collapsible stock or bayo lug adds nothing to the basic functionality of the rifle.



Exactly! A post ban rifle is just as lethal as a preban when defending ones life.

Link Posted: 8/12/2005 12:10:29 PM EDT
OK I just spoke to AG Spitzer.

RK: Mr. Spitzer when you take office in Jan. 2007 as the Governor will you clarify the firearm laws in NY and specifically the NY AWB?

Spitzer: Yes, I will make it my highest priority. The laws in NY are too confusing even for me to figure out what's legal or illegal in their current form. We need to simplify them.

RK: Could you give us a little insight as to what you have in mind.

Spitzer: Sure, if it has a barrel and a trigger it's an assault weapon and will be banned in NYS.

RK. But Spitz, you'd be banning all guns including black powder muzzle loaders.

Spitzer: Yup.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 2:16:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
OK I just spoke to AG Spitzer.

RK: Mr. Spitzer when you take office in Jan. 2007 as the Governor will you clarify the firearm laws in NY and specifically the NY AWB?

Spitzer: Yes, I will make it my highest priority. The laws in NY are too confusing even for me to figure out what's legal or illegal in their current form. We need to simplify them.

RK: Could you give us a little insight as to what you have in mind.

Spitzer: Sure, if it has a barrel and a trigger it's an assault weapon and will be banned in NYS.

RK. But Spitz, you'd be banning all guns including black powder muzzle loaders.

Spitzer: Yup.



rkbar, If Govonor Spitzer will allow you to place the call on speaker phone, I have a question:
Govonor, does the Govonors underground bunker that's maintained by the Department of Corrections have sufficient supplies and manpower to hold off an armed siege for the entire duration of your term in office?
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 4:35:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Raptor22:
According to the way I read the NYS AWB below and the fact that Oly says that it was manufactured prior to 1994, the answer is as clear as mud:


22. "Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an
ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the
following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
flash suppressor;
(v) a grenade launcher; or
(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the
pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm
with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is
unloaded;
(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm;
or
(d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such
weapons
, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known
as:

(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all
models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street
Sweeper and Striker 12;



N.B.: section (d) was not in the Federal AWB. It is all a matter of what they define functioning frames or receivers as. My guess is that this does not include stripped receivers. So, your caution is warranted.




I've also been trying to find a formal definition of the copies or duplicates part without any luck. The closest I could find was from the NJ state police.


From the NJ State Police:


"Both the Division of Criminal Justice and the State Police Firearms Unit have received a number of inquiries whether the Colt Match Target Rifle and the Springfield M1A are considered assault firearms under New Jersey law.

Based on our review of the law and the Attorney General guidelines, we conclude that neither of the two firearms are prohibited under State law.

The Colt Match Target Rifle, based on the manufacturer’s specifications, is a new line of rifles and is not part of the AR-15 series, and thus, is not prohibited under N.J.S.A.2 C: 39-1w(1).

Although this new rifle, may resemble the Colt AR-15, there have been substantial changes to the firearm, including the receiver which is not identical to an AR-15 receiver.

In addition, because of changes in the configuration of the firearm, the Colt Match Target Rifle is not substantially identical to a prohibited firearm and prohibited under this classification."

My question is: are the currently available stripped lowers similar to the Colt AR15 receiver or the later Match Target receiver?

I know that the rulings of the NJ State Police doesn't apply to NY but given the lack of guidance from the NY officials at least it is something to argue if need be.



Top Top