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Posted: 9/12/2005 5:33:11 PM EDT


Above is a pic of what I've narrowed my collection down to, and why.

First, lemme say I'm not much of a handgun guy. That said, here's what and why:

Sig 226 in .40 S&W - combat pistol. I went with .40 cuz it adequately compromises capacity and grain weight. I have it not as a carry gun, or a home defense gun per se, but to have a combat pistol. Fits my hand like no other.

Springfield XD40 - alot of the same reasons as the Sig, but with a light rail. This makes it a good night time bedside gun.

CZ75BD with Kadet 22 rf conversion - my only real "fun" handgun. Something cool about being able to go "bang" 17 times in succession without reloading. But I'm also keeping it for the 22 rf option. You GOTTA have a 22 rf right?

Kahr P9 - great trigger, DAO which is a good CCW thing. Lightweight, thin, accurate. Great for summer carry.

S&W 642 Airlite - "hammerless" for CCW. Everyone should have a wheelgun right? This is mine. Also good for my CCW students to shoot. Good year round carry. Light.

Any holes in my collection? (only in the sense of functioality, NOT because you think I should have a 1911 )

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:42:52 PM EDT

Something in .45 ACP would fill it out nicely.
I prefer my CZ 97B to the Colt series 70 Mk IV I used to own.
The 97 is a big ol cannon, but a great bedside gun with 11 rds of .45, and those great CZ ergo's.

DaddyDett
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:46:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DaddyDett:
Something in .45 ACP would fill it out nicely.
I prefer my CZ 97B to the Colt series 70 Mk IV I used to own.
The 97 is a big ol cannon, but a great bedside gun with 11 rds of .45, and those great CZ ergo's.

DaddyDett



I went with a compromise cartridge - .40 S&W.

I'm more trying to figger out if their is another "job" I don't have the right tool for...not different calibers, or models or makers.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 5:47:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:53:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By anothergene:
Next question, garandman, would be what you eliminated and why?
It looks like what you have fill your needs without getting too carried away like some of us tend to do.
And do you consider your collection closed? I mean there has to be something you would like to have if it came along at the "right" price.



I'm selling two Sigs. A 226 and a 239. I couldn't pare it down any more than the 5 above tho. I'm getting myself "un-carried away."

Not really closed, but I can't think of any other reasons to get another handgun. I'm trying to make my collection small, designed for specific uses, VERY good at those uses, and me very good with them. A few guns, but high dollar quality stuff

Kinda the "be very afraid of the man with one gun" theory.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:27:50 AM EDT
-100 for not having a 1911.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:34:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
-100 for not having a 1911.



...offset by a +100 for not being a lemming.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:51:27 AM EDT
I have 80+ handguns, so I am at once impressed by your restraint and saddened by my lack thereof...
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:14:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HardShell:
I have 80+ handguns, so I am at once impressed by your restraint and saddened by my lack thereof...



We're gonna need a pic of that!!!!!!

Or just hang a "Gun Store" sign out your front door.



Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:17:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:31:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
We should narrow our handguns down?

Dang, I didn't get the memo!



Only if ya wants to.

How many handguns can YOU shoot at once in a SHTF??

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:47:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 6:50:16 AM EDT by ken_mays]
I'm hoarding handguns in the hopes of trading them for sexual favors from the neighborhood wimmenz in a SHTF scenario.

Or at least that's what I tell myself, if it justifies being able to buy another handgun.

You may want to consider a revolver you can hunt with, if necessary. Something like a Super Redhawk in .44 magnum with a scope. Not that I am particularly interested in anything like that myself, but it does fill a void in your arsenal.

Frankly I would ditch either the XD or the 226 and buy a twin for the one you keep.

You have magazine, holster, and ammo commonality, one set of skills to keep sharp, and a source of spare parts if all else fails.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:50:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Frankly I would ditch either the XD or the 226 and buy a twin for the one you keep.

You have magazine, holster, and ammo commonality, one set of skills to keep sharp, and a source of spare parts if all else fails.



Very interesting suggestion....

I can't get rid of the Sig, and I don't want to get rid of the XD.

But you make a good point.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:27:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Frankly I would ditch either the XD or the 226 and buy a twin for the one you keep.

You have magazine, holster, and ammo commonality, one set of skills to keep sharp, and a source of spare parts if all else fails.



Very interesting suggestion....

I can't get rid of the Sig, and I don't want to get rid of the XD.

But you make a good point.



Yeah, if it were me, I'd probably buy another one of each. You could get a second (railed) P226 for your secondary/nightstand gun.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:34:19 AM EDT
You need a 10mm, .357 Magnum, 45 Colt or .44 Magnum.

Especially a 10mm.

Good luck on your quest.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:44:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:

Yeah, if it were me, I'd probably buy another one of each. You could get a second (railed) P226 for your secondary/nightstand gun.



HHhhmmmm....ANOTHER very good suggestion...

You have a VERY large gun collection, don't you???

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:51:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By ken_mays:

Yeah, if it were me, I'd probably buy another one of each. You could get a second (railed) P226 for your secondary/nightstand gun.



HHhhmmmm....ANOTHER very good suggestion...

You have a VERY large gun collection, don't you???



You only go around once, and it beats spending it on things like clothes and cars....
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:52:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By garandman:
Yeah, if it were me, I'd probably buy another one of each. You could get a second (railed) P226 for your secondary/nightstand gun.



I think I've convinced myself the XD shoots with less recoil (slide is lower to the frame, and better aligned with wrist axis)

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:57:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:03:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ikor:
Actually, since you can get a .22 conversion for the 226,



Where??

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:19:35 AM EDT
I'd replace them all with 1911's with the exception of the Smith 642 which is a great deep concealment gun.

Hey, you asked...

Seriously though I'd echo the comment about adding a large cal hunting revolver.

And maybe a glock 17 and a stack of 17 and 32rd mags just because you can.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:42:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 9:44:11 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By garandman:
We're gonna need a pic of that!!!!!! ...



I've never pulled them all out and shot a pic of all of them at once - sounds like a fun Saturday project...


Seriously, I've thought long and hard (several times) of paring down my collection - not just handguns - to a reasonably redundant supply of the primary firearms my wife & I use for CCW & HD plus a few select hunting/fun guns, but I just can't do it. I admire anybody who can, I just can't. I was 100% serious above when I said I was impressed.


As to your original question, I know you've got the .22 conversion but IMHO you need at least one rimfire tack-driver - my personal choice would a S&W 41 or 617.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:49:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HardShell:

Seriously, I've thought long and hard (several times) of paring down my collection - not just handguns - to a reasonably redundant supply of the primary firearms my wife & I use for CCW & HD plus a few select hunting/fun guns, but I just can't do it. I admire anybody who can, I just can't. I was 100% serious above when I said I was impressed.


]



I've tried before, but I'm finally doing it.

5 rifles and 2 handguns currently for sale in EE
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:57:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 9:58:09 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:01:40 AM EDT
Needs a 10mm G20 Glock with Doubletap ammo
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:08:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

I still hear mixed reviews about Kahrs, I know "mine has xtymilliongazillion rounds" Good size and seems like a good idea, I'm just not convinced. However presumably yours has enough rounds through it that you know that one works, plus your S&W is a good small concealment gun.

Seems like a nice selection of pistols to me.



A couple hundred thru it with no hiccups. I really need more practice with it.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:38:32 AM EDT
Im too young to buy handguns but I'd get a glock (prolly 17) and 1911 to complete the collection... And also a large caliber revolver for hunting also. That was a great idea.


Why? Cause Glock is prolly one of the most reliable and it's easy to get mags for them. 1911? Cause everyone agrees its the funnest range gun and its classic.

Revolver for handgun hunting, provides a new challange.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:03:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 11:09:05 AM EDT by AJohnston]
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:14:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AJohnston:
My recommendation would be that you find one gun you like and enjoy shooting, learn to shoot it very well, buy an exact twin for it, and then dedicate yourself to making that gun fill all of the purposes you listed.

I don’t make and could never see a logical distinction between a carry gun, combat gun, summer gun, winter gun, morning gun, evening gun, or any other category one wished to make. When any of these guns have to be employed the goal will be the same... the defense of ones life.

As of now I don’t see how your handgun battery follows the ideology of "be very afraid of the man with one gun" seeing as how you have a separate and different gun for 5 identical roles. Mind you, I do think that one needs choices in which gun to use for certain personal defense situations but those are extremely limited situations and generally have more to do with clothing choices or ones mode of dress than the task for the gun. I personally don’t believe in a separate handgun for ones “nightstand”, “combat”, “home defense”, “daily carry”, etc. One gun that you are intimately familiar with will fill all those roles easily.

Again I’m not saying one should not have multiple handguns of varying designs. Just that, IMO, for the tasks of fighting and personal defense a single gun that you have mastered is a much smarter choice than multiple choices for identical tasks.



I think we're thinking along the same lines.

But my Sig is NOT a carry gun I'm suited to. Its big and heavy.

And the Kahr is NOT really a gun suited to anything other than 21 feet and less personal defense.

I just don't think you can get one gun suitable for every environment.

I'm just trying to make it as few as possible.



Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:49:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 11:53:32 AM EDT by AJohnston]
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:05:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJohnston:


If you feel the Sig is too big and heavy and you believe the Kahr only good out to 21ft. then maybe you need something in between. Or quite possibly maybe you haven’t yet found the best way to carry the Sig or haven’t trained enough with the Kahr. Not trying to start a pissing contest, just my opinion.



OK, here's what I would define as my handgun "needs" -


  • Personal defense. Nothing else

  • light rail

  • .40 cal (compromise cartridge

  • thin profile - no "printing " useable in suit and tie enviroment

  • 4" sight radius (also a compromise)

  • light weight as possible

  • semi auto, 10 round miniumum

  • 100% reliability



What gun does all that? I've looked hard and long, and haven't found it yet.

I will admit I'm open to ideas as to how to carry heavy guns better.



Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:50:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 12:54:10 PM EDT by AJohnston]
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:52:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:
OK, here's what I would define as my handgun "needs" -


  • Personal defense. Nothing else

  • light rail

  • .40 cal (compromise cartridge

  • thin profile - no "printing " useable in suit and tie enviroment

  • 4" sight radius (also a compromise)

  • light weight as possible

  • semi auto, 10 round miniumum

  • 100% reliability



What gun does all that? I've looked hard and long, and haven't found it yet.

I will admit I'm open to ideas as to how to carry heavy guns better.



Sounds like the CZ P01 is worth a close look. The only thing it won't do is conceal really well unless you get just the right holster (whatever that is), so I think you have an argument for keeping the J-frame for those occasions. You could get 2 J-frames -- one primary, one backup. Then you could carry one in each pocket so you don't list to starboard
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:55:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJohnston:
With the above in mind what handgun I would recommend for you is actually quite easy, your Sig 226. Why? Mostly because you already own it and are admittedly familiar with it but also because if you remove your “need” for a light rail it fits all of the requirements you listed assuming it’s 100% reliable.

So here’s what I would recommend you do. Shoot it allot, train with it always, and experiment with quality carry gear until you find something that works for you. I suspect that with a nit of effort that gun can fill any defensive need you would ever have for a handgun.



Good post. Thanx for all the thought you've obviously put into your reply.

If you would, describe for me your carry rig - manufacturers, models etc for holster, belt, etc.

DO you carry in a suit and tie environment?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:57:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Sounds like the CZ P01 is worth a close look. The only thing it won't do is conceal really well unless you get just the right holster (whatever that is), so I think you have an argument for keeping the J-frame for those occasions. You could get 2 J-frames -- one primary, one backup. Then you could carry one in each pocket so you don't list to starboard



I almost bought a P01. But I heard about some QC issues. Have you heard anything about this?

If one J-frame would make me list to starboard, a single Sig 226 would make me sail in circles.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:39:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:55:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:12:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 8:16:15 AM EDT by NoAim]
I personally have two handguns, with a future buy in of possibly two more.

Now:
- USP .40 Full Size = Truck or Bedside gun
- P2000SK in .40 = Carry

Future:
- Another USP .40 FS = Truck or Bedside (plus when I go out plinking...John Woo action)
- Ruger Mark II or Browning BuckMark = .22LR plinker. Possibly suppressed.

I may not get a second USP as my bedside gun will probably end up being my Saiga-12. Why live with 13 rounds of .40, when I can have 9 rounds of 12 Gauge?

I'm more of a rifle guy myself. Wheel guns and other doohickeys have zero interest for me. And although it's considered blasphemy around here, I'm not a fan of 1911s. My buddy has one that I shoot damn accurate, but for a "tool" I'd rather have something else.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:28:13 AM EDT
i got 2 HGs:
S&W 469 9mm (compact)--range use, sucks for anything else
G29 10mm (subcompact, or so glock says)--carry/HD/backup

when i finally turn 21 next month, its going to be hell on the wallet
first thing i get:

1911, more likely a SA loaded--.45acp, a classic, 1911s kick a**, a full size, more likely a CCW
G19--cheaper ammo, i got lots of mags for it, easy to CCW
then:
another 1911
eventually:
G30/21
FN 5-7
HK tactical
SIG p228/p228

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:36:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 8:37:36 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
... S&W 469 9mm (compact)--range use, sucks for anything else...





That's been my wife's carry-gun of choice for almost 20 years now. She has a pair of them, is quite good with them, and they have never let her down in any way.

"Sucks," indeed.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:33:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 9:34:28 AM EDT by ALPHAGHOST]

Originally Posted By HardShell:

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
... S&W 469 9mm (compact)--range use, sucks for anything else...





That's been my wife's carry-gun of choice for almost 20 years now. She has a pair of them, is quite good with them, and they have never let her down in any way.

"Sucks," indeed.



no, no

its MINE that sucks

the one i got shoots erratically--somethimes 4-5in to the left, other times, right on, but 3-5in to low--last time i shot it at an IDPA target, aiming for center of mass (wolf ammo), i hit the target's crotch/abdomon area, WTF?!

h/w it DOES feed reliably w/ just about anything, its more compact and lighter than the G29

i hate the safety though--unnatural for me to be flipping the lever UP to fire and the trigger and sights could use some improvement

so Hardshell, got any ideas on why my 469 sprays bullets all over the place (oh, and its not dirty or loose)?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:31:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 11:27:20 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
... so Hardshell, got any ideas on why my 469 sprays bullets all over the place (oh, and its not dirty or loose)?



None.

My wife's both shoot very well for subcompacts (she shoots them much better than I do, but I chalk that up to her practice/familiarity with them ).

The only thing I've ever had to have done to either one of hers was when I had the one that "lives" in her Galco holster/purse refinished, and that was purely cosmetic.


Sorry for the OT/hijack, g-man!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 11:26:00 AM EDT
So Hardshell, got any ideas on why my 469 sprays bullets all over the place (oh, and its not dirty or loose)?


Check the muzzle for nicks & dings, and check to see if the sights are loose in their dovetails.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 12:02:47 PM EDT
I believe you have done well Garandman. You have chosen very well, IMO, for your needs.

I don't subscribe to the one gun theory, simply because I just don't belive it, and it works well when the situation is just right, but that is not always the case.

My carry handguns are the 220ST .45 when clothing and situations permit, and other times the new (to me) Kahr P40, which I love the more I shoot it.

For normal days, the .45 rides my hip, covered by an overshirt, and though your 226 is heavy, my 220ST makes it look downright svelte.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:04:39 PM EDT
I only have one handgun...not really by choice but more because of a lack of $$$. However I do shoot mine regularly and am very comfortable with it and very familiar with it(S&W 4506). I will probably eventually get a twin for it because I like it soooo much and I know that if a shot fired from that gun misses it is pure operator error. I am a big guy and don't have a problem with concealing it.


Now back on topic...I don't agree with the whole narrowing down the field topic of this thread. I believe that in a SHTF situation I want to be able to arm as many of my freinds/family as possible...LOL! There is nothing wrong with having a big collection. You should have one gun that you are very intimately familiar with but having others around should not be a problem, they won't get jelous.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:09:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GNX:
... There is nothing wrong with having a big collection. You should have one gun that you are very intimately familiar with but having others around should not be a problem, they won't get jelous.



I don't know about that. My 1911s get a little jealous that they don't get shot nearly as much or as often as my Glocks. And my revolvers get downright perturbed...
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:47:10 PM EDT
Does it make “one” feel sophisticated, intellectual, and wise to speak this way? I’d estimate that better than half of the people on this board are self proclaimed experts in the field of firearms, self defense needs, round performance and whatever else the subject title may be. “One” should be careful to rely too much on the BS these ass clowns are so eager to push on you. Writing intelligently does not constitute intelligence.

On a serious note, there are a good number of guys here that are very informative and helpful. You just have to sort through them. I’m sure that you will draw your own conclusion for what you need or want. It just irks me sometimes that some couch commando feels it necessary to enlighten you with his survivalist horseshit lectures. I supposed that’s enough ranting from me for now. For what it’s worth, I think you have a decent assortment of handguns there.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:53:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Greco7778:
Does it make “one” feel sophisticated, intellectual, and wise to speak this way? I’d estimate that better than half of the people on this board are self proclaimed experts in the field of firearms, self defense needs, round performance and whatever else the subject title may be. “One” should be careful to rely too much on the BS these ass clowns are so eager to push on you. Writing intelligently does not constitute intelligence.

On a serious note, there are a good number of guys here that are very informative and helpful. You just have to sort through them. I’m sure that you will draw your own conclusion for what you need or want. It just irks me sometimes that some couch commando feels it necessary to enlighten you with his survivalist horseshit lectures. I supposed that’s enough ranting from me for now. For what it’s worth, I think you have a decent assortment of handguns there.



Panties in a bunch? Someone spank you and now you feel a bit "irked"? I'd love to hear your opinions on the subject, something more than just point (forget aiming), shoot, and pray.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:43:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OneOfThosePeople:

Originally Posted By Greco7778:
Does it make “one” feel sophisticated, intellectual, and wise to speak this way? I’d estimate that better than half of the people on this board are self proclaimed experts in the field of firearms, self defense needs, round performance and whatever else the subject title may be. “One” should be careful to rely too much on the BS these ass clowns are so eager to push on you. Writing intelligently does not constitute intelligence.

On a serious note, there are a good number of guys here that are very informative and helpful. You just have to sort through them. I’m sure that you will draw your own conclusion for what you need or want. It just irks me sometimes that some couch commando feels it necessary to enlighten you with his survivalist horseshit lectures. I supposed that’s enough ranting from me for now. For what it’s worth, I think you have a decent assortment of handguns there.



Panties in a bunch? Someone spank you and now you feel a bit "irked"? I'd love to hear your opinions on the subject, something more than just point (forget aiming), shoot, and pray.




Spanked? Why don't you tell him how his pistols are only for fighting his way to his AR with the 100rd drum. Tell him how a shotgun will only piss off an intruder. I figured that post would bring some "experts" out of their shadows. I could argue with you, but I would only be wasting my time.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:13:46 PM EDT
Based on what you already have, get a .357 SIG barrel for that P226. If you want something new/different, get a Glock 20 10mm. A 1911 might be nice, but there are other guns out there, they all have their strong points.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:15:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By AJohnston:


If you feel the Sig is too big and heavy and you believe the Kahr only good out to 21ft. then maybe you need something in between. Or quite possibly maybe you haven’t yet found the best way to carry the Sig or haven’t trained enough with the Kahr. Not trying to start a pissing contest, just my opinion.



OK, here's what I would define as my handgun "needs" -


  • Personal defense. Nothing else

  • light rail

  • .40 cal (compromise cartridge

  • thin profile - no "printing " useable in suit and tie enviroment

  • 4" sight radius (also a compromise)

  • light weight as possible

  • semi auto, 10 round miniumum

  • 100% reliability



What gun does all that? I've looked hard and long, and haven't found it yet.

I will admit I'm open to ideas as to how to carry heavy guns better.






SIG P229 ?
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