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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/28/2005 4:45:10 PM EDT
I've decided to buy a Milt Sparks holster because apparently he is the only holster maker on the planet who was smart enough to put the snap-loops to the sides of the gun. My current Desantis holster leaves a GIANT bulge on my hip where the snap-loops are because they are stacked where the gun is. Don't get me wrong, it's very well-made, but it fails to conceal.

My two choices are the VersamaxII and the Watch-Six. They appear to be nearly identical, except the Watch-Six does not have the reinforced mouth for one handed reholstering.

I'm leaning toward the Watch-Six, partly because of price, but primarily because I think it will conceal better without a metal reinforcing strip.

Does anybody have experience with the Watch-Six? What say you?
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 5:36:11 PM EDT
I have a Watch Six that I use everyday. It is by far my favorite holster. I am a pretty skinny guy and I had the same concern you do about concealment. I was in the exact same dilema as you, I didn't know either to get the Watch 6 or the VM2. I am very glad I went with the W6. As long as you don't constintly have the holster on without the gun inserted it should hold it's shape and not close up. I almost never have a hard time with onehanded reholstering but I also almost never have the holster on with out the gun (Glock 19) inserted. If you do decide to get the W6 you will not be dissapionted with it.

Good luck
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 3:03:59 AM EDT
Here's the devil's advocate.

I have a VM-IIH for my Sig P239 and love it. Comfortable, conceals very well.

OTOH, I have a Colt 1991 I'm thinking about getting a W6 for, just to try something different.

How's that for fence sitting?

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 8:14:13 AM EDT
I just got my VMII Monday, but have practiced drawing a reholstering quite a bit. Even with the metal reinforced mouth of the VMII, I still have to wedge and work the gun into the holster. I think it would be a huge PITA without the reinforcing band.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 8:27:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 8:28:42 AM EDT by Backstop]
I use a Watch 6 exclusively.

The spacing of the snaps helps force the grip of my 1911 into my side = great concealibility.

I know many folks think the metal band in the Versa is a great idea - and I also think it is.

But I just don't think worrying about reholstering should be a concern. EDIT: I'm carrying concealed, and will only draw my weapon if needed. well that sounds stupid - guess I just can't find the words. OK, let's try this: YMMV.

I've been carrying for a long long time. And it hasn't been an issue yet.

And yes, I did have a Versa for a time. I believe the Watch is more comfortable.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 1:48:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Backstop:
I use a Watch 6 exclusively.

The spacing of the snaps helps force the grip of my 1911 into my side = great concealibility.

I know many folks think the metal band in the Versa is a great idea - and I also think it is.

But I just don't think worrying about reholstering should be a concern. EDIT: I'm carrying concealed, and will only draw my weapon if needed. well that sounds stupid - guess I just can't find the words. OK, let's try this: YMMV.

I've been carrying for a long long time. And it hasn't been an issue yet.

And yes, I did have a Versa for a time. I believe the Watch is more comfortable.

I always thought the same thing.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 2:35:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 4:57:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 5:11:34 PM EDT by Backstop]

Originally Posted By AJohnston:
While I no longer employ them I have used both the VM-2 and W-6 and if I were to choose again I would opt for the VM-2 because of its reinforced mouth. I’ll agree that holstering the pistol after the fight may indeed be ones last concern but IMO a reinforced mouth has other benefits often not thought of.



Great and valid points.

My friendly counter :

Assuming I'm on a two way range.

If my left arm is disabled, I reload in this manner:
Hopefully I have some cover. Drop to one knee - place right knee on the ground. Weapon, at slide lock or a tac reload, gets tucked behind the knee of my right leg - wedged between my thigh and calf. I remove the mag with my right hand, then reach to my left side and grab a fresh mag, insert the mag, remove pistol from behind my knee, operate the slide release, and party on.

If my right arm is disabled, I perform the same drill, but place my left knee on the ground, and use my left hand for the operations.


Try inserting a pistol into a collapsed holster using only your support side hand during an empty load or while performing a malfunction clearance and one will quickly realize the importance of a holster that won’t collapse.


I can't visualize a scenario where I'd insert a malf pistol into a holster in an attempt to clear the malf.

If I have a malf when one arm is disabled, I'm again down on one knee, most likely seeking cover. The heel of my boot works great for hooking the front sight and working the slide. BTDT.

If I couldn't fix the malf, then the weapon ain't going back in the holster - guess I'd try to beat the mofo to death first - of course resulting in my demise. But I have no use for a holster during any malf operations.

At least in my world, the pistol isn't gonna visit the holster until the threat is gone.

Not to mention I have some type of garment over the holster.

You make great points regarding reholstering during sitting or laying.

EDIT: need to add that I was trained to seek cover when reloading or fixing a malf- or if nothing else, drop to one knee. Old reliable habits...

2nd Edit: Folks should be practicing these drills. One thing that is my favorite is to have my buddy at the range load my mags. He takes an empty case and puts it in one or two mags. Using an empty rather than a snap cap or orange training round, I can't tell where the bad round is when I look at the mag. Then he runs me through some drills: Strong hand, weak hand, kneeling, barricade, etc.

Another one is to take a case, install a bullet, but don't put any powder in and leave the old fired primer in. This works for the failure to fire drill.



Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:40:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 5:56:37 PM EDT by AJohnston]
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:08:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 6:09:11 PM EDT by Backstop]

Originally Posted By AJohnston:
The biggest problem I see with that method is that it makes you immobile. If I’ve already been hit I’ll hope to keep moving in the event that moving may decrease the chance of me taking another round. Dropping to a knee won’t let one accomplish this.


If I have cover, and my weapon malfs, I'm staying put (probably) until I fix the prob.

Good luck moving if you're hit. Being shot and possessing adequate mobility are not synonyms.


Again, I most likely won’t be dropping to the ground in a fight, it makes you immobile. So stay standing and envision this similar scenario...

For one reason or another if your strong side or support side arm becomes disabled during the fight and you still have to reload your gun or clear a malfunction you can do so with the following method. By not taking a knee you can remain a moving target and hopefully be harder to hit while you’re seeking out good solid cover. At the same time you can reload your gun by ejecting the empty mag, placing the gun in the holster (conveniently open due to its reinforced mouth), retrieving a fresh magazine and inserting it into the pistol, and after removing the pistol from the holster reciprocating it on your holster or belt to chamber a round. You’re now back in the fight.



So I guess what you're saying is that you're pounding it out with a guy and you don't have any cover, then you have a malf or slidelock, so you will move to cover while attempting to clear the or reloading malf. OK...I'd like to you stand at your range, and intentionally create a malf. Now, imagine a mofo is trying to shoot you, and your left arm is disabled. Now run as fast as you can to some type of cover while trying to fix the malf and using your holster in some way. Now, do it again with your left arm disabled, but this time, shoot your weapon to slide lock, and run as fast as you can to cover while trying to holster your weapon, retrieve a new mag, and insert the new mag.

Maybe using your holster after you get to cover might work, but otherwise you're gonna die, my
friend.

I could see the potential for reholstering when using a 6004, and reloading when running to cover. But I gotta wonder why people shoot to slide lock when they have no cover.

And my point is this. You need cover to survive. I wouldn't duke it out with a guy while just standing out in the open. My first rounds out are designed first to stop the threat, and second gain me the time I need to get to cover. My first rounds are fired while moving to cover. Period. No cover, no life.

I used the phrases "Hopefully I have some cover" and "most likely seeking cover" to indicate cover is a necessity for me. I admittedly failed to convey that to you.

It's interesting to see the methods of others...

I like cover

EDIT: looks like you edited while I was typing - I'll probably just post another post rather than edit
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:39:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 6:46:47 PM EDT by AJohnston]
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:55:32 PM EDT
Yeah, got kinda wound up, didn't it? HA!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:31:27 AM EDT
I have a couple of VM II's that I live with on a day to day basis. Flat out, the most comfortable rig I have used. The mouth band does add a little girth but not enough really to see, but may require an extra notch on your belt.

Since we are talking CCW, my thoughts at first were, shoot I don't have to worry about a reholster, it is not like I'm going to be cuffing someone. But I always practice with my rigs, and it is nice to be able to quickly holster up for the next round of drills. \

But the best thing about the VM II is the front snap being on that little arm. That gives just enough to conform to your hip making it more stable and comfortable.

My prob is I am on a waiting list to get a VM II for my 5 in 1911.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 6:31:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 6:38:26 AM EDT by Green_Canoe]

Originally Posted By lu380:
I've decided to buy a Milt Sparks holster because apparently he is the only holster maker on the planet who was smart enough to put the snap-loops to the sides of the gun.



Not true!!! Check out the Brommeland Max Con V. Very similar to the Watch Six. I have one and I don't find the holster mouth collapses to any significant degree. I have more issues getting my shirt out of the way one handed than I do getting the muzzle back in the holster. If I was looking for a range holster I'd get one with a reenforced mouth. Since concealment is my main concern I vote for the slightly thinner holster w/o the reenforcement.

Also check out Holsters By Eric (HBE), Alessi, Bulman, and Tucker Gunleather. I am fairly certian they all offer a holster with the loops off to the sides.

Kent
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 7:54:08 AM EDT
I carry a Sig P239 in a Watch Six holster and I love it. I have not tried the VersaMax so I can not comment on it. If you want a holster that is thin, comfortable and concealable, you won't be dissapointed with the Watch Six.
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