Posted: 7/4/2005 12:23:23 PM EDT
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Some time ago I was hot for a Valtro. It seemed everyone wanted one as well, but I dont hear much about them anymore. Has anyone taken delivery on one? feedback? I called and spoke to John Jardine at Jardine Custom, a hell of a nice guy and he certainly knows his 1911's. As I understood it, the Valtro 1998A1 was imported from Italy and John was personally spending 8 hrs per gun for fine tuning and inspection. At the time he was running 1 year plus. For those of you that have not heard of him. His site has some of the best hi res photos of 1911's I have ever seen. www.jardinecustom.com www.valtrousa.com |
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John Jardine is an ass, Giving him your money is like asking your slavemaster for another beating. I'm sure that The FNG (Employee at Cav Arms) won't mind me posting this.
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Is this the only reason you say he's an ass? It seems the overall opinion of him and his pistols in other forums is very positive. I also found him to be a gentleman when I spoke with him on the phone regarding building a 1911. If he chooses not to sell the PM5s to civilians then that is his decision. Here's my take on this posters recollection of his discussion with Mr Jardine.
This guy is an employee at Cav Arms and he's posting this all over the internet????? Dumbass. |
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So you're willing to support somebody that feels a magazine fed shotgun in the hands of civilians is dangerous just so you have get your hands on an overpriced 1911? This guy is only 2A friendly in that it puts money in his pocket. "Please mister slavemaster, can I have another beating?" |
Maybe he feels it would be a liability to himself or his 1911 business, or, he just plain doesn't have time to, or want to deal with it. Does he owe anyone an explanation as to why? |
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Does Jardine owe anyone an explanation? No. Is it okay to dislike his position? Yes. Is it acceptable to boycott his products if you don't agree with him. I guess it depends on how much the principle of it matters to you. BrianNH, if you called up a gun manufacturer, gunsmith, distibutor, etc., for some product information, and had the man on the other end start quizzing you about who you were, what you did, etc., would that really not bother you? I would think that would put most people off. He makes no mention of his exclusive sales policy on his website though. It hardly seems like good business practice to advertise a gun on a website, only to alledgedly have a potential customer call up, get interrogated about who he is, where he's from, and what he does, and then be told it is only being sold to INS and DOJ. If this is truly how the conversation took place (I'm not doubting FNG either), then I would at the very least say this man has some distasteful views. I would be willing to bet most other shooters would too. But then again, "I'm from Arizona and that’s how I am blah blah...." |
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I fired one that belongs to a friend. It was very accurate, and very smooth. The screw that secures the rear sight had been tapped and installed at a slight angle, and my friend told me that Jardine corrected it. It was a beautiful gun. A little too beautiful for my tastes. The french border around the slide was purty and the thumb safety was a mile wide. Finish was gorgeous. But I prefer "working" guns. If I had a Valtro it would be a safe queen. |
Hobbs, if you recall, John Jardine is supposedly not selling the PM5 selling to civilians. Since someone called and asked about purchasing one, wouldn't it only be proper for John to ask the caller to identify himself?? have you ever heard of phone etiquette? When you call someone, the first thing you should do is identify yourself, and the company you are with. If you are too ignorant to do this, the person you called has every right to ask. I would not call this quizzing. Dont believe me, go ahead, call any manufacturer or distributor that only sells to govt agencies, and without identifying youself, start babbling about purchasing their product. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts they will ask who you are and where you're from. You must also realize someone is being trashed here, and you seem to be defending an unknown poster of a cryptic email based on 3rd hand information. Tell me Hobbs, what color is the sky in YOUR world? |
This story is posted right here on this forum in the CavArms Industry Forum |
Hasn’t this same basic story been posted on every other internet forum… seems awfully familiar to me. Mr. Jardine is not here to defend his actions, words, opinions, or anything else. Is beating up on him without a proper defense really gonna’ make you feel that much better about yourself. I’m all for a lively discussion based on the facts but when second and third hand hearsay, about an individual not present to mount a proper defense or explanation, is presented as the gospel one needs to take a step back and examine the logic of the attack. |
Read my first post, I said he was an employee of Cavarms, if you didn't know they were industry partners, I can't help you. |
Go to CavArms forum here and you can read FNG's post for yourself, it's exactly what I posted, but maybe you will feel better about it coming right from him. I'm sure you have seen this before, when it happened he posted the story on several forum including 1911 forum where they decided to delete the thread an ban FNG, I guess the mods over there feel that being able to buy a high end snoby art pistol is more important than point out people that don't fully support 2A. The fact is that Cav Arms wanted to buy one of these shotguns because they were interested in making accesories for it, but Mr. Jardine decided that while the PM5 is listed at Valtro-USA as the only mag fed shotgun available in CA (Which means to me that Valtro went through the process to make that happen, they must be for civilian sales) he wasn't willing to willing to send it even to another arms maker because he ihimself is completely against civilians owning a mag fed shotgun. Then to top it off he pulled out his snoby CA attitude towards states that don't restrict gun ownership like they do in CA. But then again I'm sure none of this means anything to you, I've seen your 1911 collection and you seem to have no problem supporting Colt, a company with the same attitude. |
If that's horse you’re truly riding than I suggest you post your opinions, as stated here about Mr. Jardine, in a forum that is dedicated to 2nd Amendment discussions. This forum is directed towards 1911 discussions and this thread is about the Valtro pistols. Get your agendas sorted out, pronto.
You might want to be careful which finger you’re pointing at me. Collection or no collection... support or no support... you’re inferring some pretty broad assumptions that have no merit and show your apparent lack of knowledge. Now let’s see if we can give this another go and possibly salvage this thread... Anyone have any knowledge or information about Valtro pistols? |
| I have not heard any bad things about the Valtro. However, any person who wants to keep a shotgun from the people is on my bad list. Might as well join the Brady campaign in my opinion. At the same time, they are his weapons, he should get to pick who he sells them too. On what grounds do you insist he sell to civilians Mudbug? |
They aren't his weapons, he's just a U.S. distributer. AJohnston, I thought my agenda was pretty clear here, post the facts as I know them - believe to be true, and detour anybody that will listen away from giving this jackass any money. In the end I would hope that Valtro would yank his distributership since he is actually intentionally NOT selling their product based on his agenda. Your post in the pic thread speaks more than a thousand words, you support Colt and by proxy support their anti-civilian policies. I'm done here, you can go ahead and rave about his product now without me messing up the worship with the dirty truth. |
| What is the distinction? If he owns them, which I am assuming he does in the stage between manufacture and retail (distributing), then they are his by definition. Are they not? I'm not saying I wouldn’t cut my affiliation with a distributor who didn’t sell to the public, but they don’t and they are his, HIS to distribute, to whoever he cares to in whatever manner is acceptable to the manufacturer. I support this with an argument similar to your proxy assertion. If they had a problem with his actions, they’d dump him. So maybe you don’t want the product anyways, since the manufacturer is transitively not selling to the public anyways. |
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Do the Valtro USA dealers sell the PM5? Seems like this would make for a nice ride for 3 gun shoots. There is certainly no wording on the Valtro web page that they do not sell to civilians, however, as a distributor I can see that they wouldn't sell direct to civilians, instead preferring to use their channel of dealers. |
You're not out of line. I'm actually the one who needs to apologize. I contributed to the digression of your thread. Anyway, no hard feelings, and maybe we can get back to the whole Valtro discussion. Someone here has to own one. Or, maybe they are as rare as the mythical Unertl pistol. One thing is for sure. Jardine's workmanship is very evident from the pics on his website. I was surprised to learn he is the nephew of the great Armand Swenson. He truly learned from the greatest master of all time. |
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Hi Hobbs. We have a 1911 Forum !!!!! I am psyched!!! As to the Valtro: I own one and bought it used about one month ago, very nice. From what I understand the wait time is about 3 years with the price approaching $2500. If someone asked for my recommendation at this point I would strongly suggest a Ted Yost. Either a full house custom or better yet (cost wise) a 1* Elite. |