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Posted: 6/4/2009 9:12:22 AM EST
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 9:18:22 AM EST
I've never heard that one before.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 9:19:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 9:19:24 AM EST by ChinoUSMC]

Originally Posted By jnatv:
I've never heard that one before.

Ditto, but a civil suit lawyer on behalf of the dead perp would argue that and probably win.



Link Posted: 6/4/2009 9:22:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?


Complete Bullshit. As long as it would have been a good shoot without the laser, its a good shoot with. Did you hear that at a gun shop?
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 9:24:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?


Complete Bullshit. As long as it would have been a good shoot without the laser, its a good shoot with. Did you hear that at a gun shop?


I heard it in two places. One was at a gunshop. The other is from a buddy of mine who I go shooting with.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 9:25:40 AM EST
I guess I don't understand. What is the reasoning behind this line of thinking?
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 9:27:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By hannism:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?


Complete Bullshit. As long as it would have been a good shoot without the laser, its a good shoot with. Did you hear that at a gun shop?


I heard it in two places. One was at a gunshop. The other is from a buddy of mine who I go shooting with.


Does your buddy go to the same gunshop?

Sounds fishy....

Link Posted: 6/4/2009 9:27:59 AM EST
only if its attached to a sharks head
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 10:17:20 AM EST
Its true....I read it on the internet somewhere.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 10:38:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 10:40:24 AM EST by SGB]
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 10:45:58 AM EST
There is a Florida statutory provision that includes the addition of lasers and certain ammunition as "constructive intent" with respect to self defense. The way to override the presumption of intent is either to be in your residence or to do three jumping jacks whilst shouting "Last chancies! Last chancies!" before engaging the threat.

Mistake #1. You listen to your ignorant friend.

Mistake #2 You listen to even more ignorant gun store employees.

Mistake #3 You try to clarify the matter by geting legal advice on the internet.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 11:23:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 11:45:33 AM EST by 25Chuck]
OK I think I am getting the hang of this law stuff. If I only do two jumping jacks it's considered murder right?
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 11:52:51 AM EST
What you heard is absolutely true which is why I have filed the sights off of each of my carry pieces.

That way, in the unfortunate event that I ever need to use one of them in self defense; I can tell the judge that I gave the scumbag more than a fair chance to kill me.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 11:52:52 AM EST
Two Jumping Jacks: manslaughter in the second degree.

One Jumping Jack: manslaughter in the first degree.

Saying "last chancies" with a foreign accent: proper venue goes to federal court.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 11:58:37 AM EST
So its OK to defend yourself with
bare hands
sticks
blunt objects
knives
cars
guns
But...a little red light means MURDER???? Where do people come up with this crap?
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:05:38 PM EST
A good shoot is a good shoot.

A defense lawyer in a civil suit, can argue the laser as being one more safety measure, helping insure a shot only hits the murderous assailent, instead of innocent bystanders.

Making sure you are absolutely in the right to draw down, before ever doing so, by being familiar with the laws in your jurisdiction, instead of relying on gun shop, gun-buddy, and internet advice is the best preventative measure you can take, so that you never have to sit in front of a grand jury to see if you are indicted or no billed.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:06:58 PM EST
OP,
All joking aside did either of the people that told you this give you any reasoning as to why they would believe it? Do they think that somehow because you've "enhanced" your weapon that it means you wanted to kill someone? Along that line of thinking would those same guys argue that a weapon light or night sights would get you charged with murder because they also "enhance" your ability to kill?
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:11:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 12:11:59 PM EST by mcculver5]
Originally Posted By 25Chuck:
OK I think I am getting the hang of this law stuff. If I only do two jumping jacks it's considered murder right?


Ag. Manslaughter.

Try to keep up.

ETA: Late......
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:19:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?


Laugh.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:22:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By hannism:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?


Complete Bullshit. As long as it would have been a good shoot without the laser, its a good shoot with. Did you hear that at a gun shop?


I heard it in two places. One was at a gunshop. The other is from a buddy of mine who I go shooting with.

1. Find new Gunshop


2. Get new Buddy




Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:35:36 PM EST
You need to realize that probably 80% of people are FUCKING IDIOTS.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:51:05 PM EST
You live in Florida; you need this:



Sold in most gun shops; you'd think they would pick up a copy and read it themselves.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 1:42:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?

Mother...Of...God! One more of these and I swear I'll have a fucking aneurism.
The laser is a sighting device. No more, no less.

Link Posted: 6/4/2009 4:49:59 PM EST
I think that you know some morons.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 5:06:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By ChinoUSMC:

Originally Posted By jnatv:
I've never heard that one before.

Ditto, but a civil suit lawyer on behalf of the dead perp would argue that and probably win.





In California, New York, and a few other fun states.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 5:19:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?


Both are full-o-shit
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 5:37:07 PM EST
If someone says that, they are an idiot.
If someone believes it, they are also an idiot.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 5:41:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?


My thoughts are the person who said that is an IDIOT!
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 6:39:42 PM EST
Only a problem if it's a cutting laser and you deleg em first before you ventilate.

I think that's called the "Fish In A Barrel" law.

Link Posted: 6/4/2009 7:18:06 PM EST
Who the hell comes up with idiotic shit like this?
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 8:11:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 8:12:45 PM EST by arty6pd]
Originally Posted By AKsRule:

Originally Posted By hannism:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?


Complete Bullshit. As long as it would have been a good shoot without the laser, its a good shoot with. Did you hear that at a gun shop?


I heard it in two places. One was at a gunshop. The other is from a buddy of mine who I go shooting with.

1. Find new Gunshop


2. Get new Buddy


3. Keep Crimson Trace.





Fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 6/6/2009 5:04:51 PM EST
No disrespect to you or anything, but that's one of the dumbest things I've heard.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 8:03:31 AM EST
its an aiming device, how can that constitute murder, I guess you should take off your night sights too!
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 9:29:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 9:30:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 9:36:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By ChinoUSMC:
Ditto, but a civil suit lawyer on behalf of the dead perp would argue that and probably win.


Lawyers can argue anything. A laser is a dot. A beam of light. That's it. All it does is tell you where a bullet is going. If YOUR lawyer can't figure a way out to communicate that to a jury then he's not worth his retainer.
PD's use lasers. Military forces use lasers. Their use is pretty well documented.


Agree.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 9:39:36 AM EST
I would like to have Crimson Trace grips on my BHP and 1911s.

But, for some reason they hate lefties.

I get a great red dot on my right thumb using a two handed grip.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 10:13:52 AM EST
Well, when I heard it, I called shennigans.

I'm definitely keeping the Crimson Trace on my Glock 19.

With as messed up as some of the gun laws are and the political powers trying to take away our Second Amendment, I did freak out.

So, I decided to ask the Hive.

As for my gunshop. The owner didn't say that, someone in the shop did. He runs the fairest operation that I've seen, and has done me right on several deals, so I'm not taking my business elsewhere.

My friend. Well, he's expendable.

Thanks ARFCOM.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 11:26:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/9/2009 9:39:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:


Link Posted: 6/9/2009 6:17:54 PM EST
I have to admit, at least this isn't a clipdraw thread...
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 10:05:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
You need to realize that probably 80% of people are FUCKING IDIOTS.


That's all well and good, but who, or what, are the other 20% of the people fucking?
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 10:36:04 AM EST
i just realized, i've heard of a lot of folks actually killed by people using guns, but not by people using LASERS
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 11:47:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By wayne1one:
its an aiming device, how can that constitute murder, I guess you should take off your night sights too!


Or any sights for that matter.....

Whether it be a front sight, night sights, red dot scope, 4x scope or a the friggin hubble telescope the purpose is the same......to hit the target.

Anybody who says that certain attachments make a weapon more "leathal" has no clue about their purpose.

And as far as a lawyer being able to prove that up in court, any defense attorney with law degree from at least a cracker jack box could tell you that adding a laser, scope, or sight to a weapon does not make specific intent.

Link Posted: 6/10/2009 11:49:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
You need to realize that probably 80% of people are FUCKING IDIOTS.


That's all well and good, but who, or what, are the other 20% of the people fucking?


Link Posted: 6/10/2009 11:51:56 AM EST
Not to hijack the thread, but while on the topic of lasers, when I was a cop we argued that we should be able to have a laser on our duty weapon.

Our Chief's reply: "that would be too intimidating"

ok.....Having a fucking .45 pointed at you isn't intimidating, but knowing where the round will hit is ?


Just pointing out.....Stupid people are everywhere

Even in Chief's offices & gun stores.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 7:18:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By ChinoUSMC:

Originally Posted By jnatv:
I've never heard that one before.

Ditto, but a civil suit lawyer on behalf of the dead perp would argue that and probably win.





Not in Florida.... good shoot, immune from civil suit.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 3:52:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people inthe last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equippedweapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it'smurder.

What's your thoughts?

Originally Posted By ChinoUSMC:


Ditto, but a civil suit lawyer on behalf of the dead perp would argue that and probably win.







....................... some people are sooooooooooooooo full of it.



Indeed; the things people come up with.

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:06:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By WTS-Mike:
Originally Posted By hannism:
Originally Posted By Flathead9:
Originally Posted By hannism:
I currently have a Crimson Trace on my Glock 19. A couple of people in the last couple of days have said that if you use a laser equipped weapon in a self defense situation, it's no longer self defense, it's murder.

What's your thoughts?


Complete Bullshit. As long as it would have been a good shoot without the laser, its a good shoot with. Did you hear that at a gun shop?


I heard it in two places. One was at a gunshop. The other is from a buddy of mine who I go shooting with.


Does your buddy go to the same gunshop?

Sounds fishy....


I was thinking the same thing!


ETA: You've got to love "gun shop lawyers"!
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 4:16:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By wayne1one:
its an aiming device, how can that constitute murder, I guess you should take off your night sights too!


Or any sights for that matter.....

Whether it be a front sight, night sights, red dot scope, 4x scope or a the friggin hubble telescope the purpose is the same......to hit the target.

Anybody who says that certain attachments make a weapon more "leathal" has no clue about their purpose.

And as far as a lawyer being able to prove that up in court, any defense attorney with law degree from at least a cracker jack box could tell you that adding a laser, scope, or sight to a weapon does not make specific intent.


If you have night sights or laser sights on your weapon for the sole purpose of enhancing your ability to actually hit your target a lawyer could in fact argue that the addition of said could constitute intent / premeditation. just sayin'




Couldn't win, but he could argue.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 4:41:46 PM EST
Their opinion is full of fail.

That is the same bunch of retards that say hunting with a scope is too easy.
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