Posted: 1/14/2011 6:08:23 AM EDT
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Ok,
I keep reading everyone on here complain about the Taurus Judge and call anyone buying them retards and worst. So my question is............................. Whats so bad about them? I mean can anyone give me some viable info on why they are so hated or is it just everyones personal opinion? Please try and give me a reason that they are so horrible and not "they just are" or "only stupid people buy them" crap. Let me clarify something first though. I'm not in the market for one. I just don't think there is anything wrong with them and am curious why people hate them. |
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IMO, no snake requires 410 shotgun shells. 45 LC snake shot would do the job just fine. So I render that part of the Judge as marketing BS.
Aside from that, it is a HUGE .45 LC gun that wastes so much room in the cylinder (to be able to hold the useless 410) and essentially borrows that space from the barrel. So you kill the performance of the 45 LC and have a huge gun in the process. IMO, it's a gun that's not good at anything functional. But... it's probably fun to shoot. So that can means something. 
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One of our members, Old_Painless, has a website Box O' Truth "The purpose of the Box O' Truth is to test the penetration of various rounds."
Check out this review of the Taurus Judge http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm |
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Some of my own testing of a Taurus Judge
Testing the Taurus Judge |
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The first versions were the size of a Walker Colt and almost as heavy.
The newest version are made of plastic and super light weight. Neither is easy to control in rapid fire yet are touted as the perfect defense gun for unskilled shooters. It will neither shoot .45 Colt rounds with great accuracy or pattern shot loads with satisfying results. It is neither fish nor fowl and the capacity is limited to five rounds. Like the Egyptian Hakim rifle, it is the Perfect weapon to throw on the ground when the real warriors come to kill you.... An abomination to good gun design and skilled shooters the world over. |
| As others have said, there's nothing wrong with the gun itself - personally I don't see the point in a shotgun/pistol other than it might be fun to shoot clay pigeons with it and it's good on snakes. The probem is with Taurus's dishonest marketing and the easily impressed people - many of whom ae idiots - that think .410 is going to be some great cartridge agaisnt people trying to kill you. |
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It's goofy as fuck and awkward.
My girlfriend bought one for a trail gun and it seems to fill that role pretty well. Primary concerns are snakes, coyotes and mountain lions. The PDX1 disc and pellet load patterns well enough that I'm comfortable with her using it for hiking. |
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Quoted:
1. it is a Taurus. 1. Taurus firearms are of poor quality, that is a given. 2. 45Colt/.410 hybrid chambers do neither job well. 3. 45Colt its self produces decent terminal effect from revolvers. There are better firearms available for this cartridge. The hybrid chamber causes 1.2-1.7" unsupported bullet jump in the Judge. This negatively affects both velocity and accuracy. 4. .410 shells have poor ballistics from a shotgun, from a 3-6" they are  Plus the barrel is rifled, which cause the shot to scatter and not pattern worth a damn.
5. .410 slugs weight 115gr(or less). You are shooting a .41" slug down a .45 barrel. Again poor accuracy and velocity. I have considered AOWing a Judge to install a .410" smooth bore 5" barrel. This will greatly increase the performance of the shot shells. However, there is still the issue of hulls sticking in the chamber of Judges. I believe a new .410 only cylinder would be required to cure this completely. Even then, I would still consider such a firearm a novelty act. Not a defensive weapon. |
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There is nothing inherently wrong with the "Judge," But there is something very wrong with its advertising. The commercials and ads are going to get good, albeit naive, people killed. There have already been several news stories of defensive shootings and attempted murder cases involving the "Judge" all of which that I've seen resulted in failures to stop with no serious injury at all to the assailant/victim. Also, don't give me that bullshit about people buying it for "snakes." No one gets on a waiting list to spend $500-$600 on a snake gun. |
| Well none of the tests to date have tested either of the new plated shells form Federal or Winchester, they have all been the transitional non plated lead which doesn't penetrate, because it deforms so until I see some good testing on ammunition made for the Judge, it's not a good argument. Another problem with the testing is almost all of testers hate the judge before they test it, which can only lead to bad results. If the plated ammunition doesn't deform and penetrates well I could see it a viable self defense gun, but it's still big and heavy with limited capacity that is hard to conceal. As far as Tauruses poor quality, yes some of there stuff is crap like the most of their autos, but as far as there revolvers go I have never had any problems with the 5 that own, or the 3 that I sold, to buy something I wanted more. Taurus does suck if you ever have to use there customer service though. And as far as the older 000 buck not being deadly at close range this argument is also a joke, and any one that thinks it isn't deadly go shoot yourself with it at close range and see, you may be surprised. About 30 years ago one of my LEO friends did an investigation on a convenience store robber that sawed off a .410 shotgun to pistol length. The robber would go in rob the clerk, and then shoot him in the face with 000 buck, so they couldn't identify him, the theory was he wanted to blind them, but in fact he killed every one of them, the shots were all at very close range 3-5ft. They did finally stop him, but not before he killed five clerks. So saying .410 isn't lethal at short range is dead wrong, whether it makes it though the bottles of water or not. Plus many of the tests that have been done are at long ranges 15-20yds not the effective range that it would be most likely deployed, more than likely 3-10ft. |
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Quoted:
The above post proves the point that if specialized ammunition is needed to make the damn thing work as intended then the overall design concept is flawed. Similar could be said for 9mm. If you don't use good quality hollow points it tends to have lack luster terminal performance. The 45ACP guys love to remind the 9mm guys of that fact. |
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Yeah, the 9mm/.45/.40 debate will go on ad nauseum.
But two of these calibers have been around for 100 years+ and one for 30 years. The Judge, on the other hand, is racking up a a record of lackluster performance in fairly short order. ETA; What the Judge is proving to me is specialized ammunition increases profits to the ammunition manufacturers without necessarily drmatically increasing terminal performance of the firearm firing them. Anybody who has ever tried the old shotgun loaded with dimes experiment knows the effects are less than steller on living tissue. It will hurt, oh yes, it won't penetrate enough to kill. I know every one of the 9mm/.45/.40 caliber guns I have now or have ever owned will group solid bullet loads better than the average Judge as well. Oh, I am sure a gunsmith somewhere will come up with a way to make the gun more accurate with solid bullet loads, and this will likely decrease, degrade, or eliminate the guns ability to continue using shot cartridges but the cost will be high and there are many good .45 Colt revolvers on the market already. |
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To me the judge isn't a bad gun. But it's kinda like the .40 round. It's a answer to the question no one asked. And like people have said before they either want more rounds, or a weapon that fires the bigger rounds better.
It's kinda cool to take out for shooting with group cause s lot of people who are not avid shooters like to shoot them.. Same reason we take the pistol grip 12 gauge out.. People think it's cool... As for a snake/trail gun. It works, but there is better out there for the same price or less. The weapon still fires, and if nothing else it a heavy paper weight to throw at someone. Like I said it's a answer to the question no one asked. |
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Anybody ever watch "The Three Kings"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyR5bk4_pHk |
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Link to discussion of SWAT article on Judge
I read this article in SWAT magazine a while back. It was very honest and reviewed different ammo choices. I know a guy who keeps one for home defense loaded with bird shot... I can't talk him out of it. People who talk bad about the judge don't do so out of snobbery, it is because it is ineffective relative to other choices in most cases. Read that article in SWAT if you get a chance. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The above post proves the point that if specialized ammunition is needed to make the damn thing work as intended then the overall design concept is flawed. Similar could be said for 9mm. If you don't use good quality hollow points it tends to have lack luster terminal performance. The 45ACP guys love to remind the 9mm guys of that fact. Not to hijack, but this is bullshit. Practically any handgun caliber in FMJ is going to suck in comparison to modern hollow points... I've thought about the Judge, but like others have said, it just doesn't fill any role really well. Other than possibly being fun. |
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The above post proves the point that if specialized ammunition is needed to make the damn thing work as intended then the overall design concept is flawed. Similar could be said for 9mm. If you don't use good quality hollow points it tends to have lack luster terminal performance. The 45ACP guys love to remind the 9mm guys of that fact. Not to hijack, but this is bullshit. Practically any handgun caliber in FMJ is going to suck in comparison to modern hollow points... I've thought about the Judge, but like others have said, it just doesn't fill any role really well. Other than possibly being fun. Yeah, I sure am glad thee assbag in Phoenix used suck FMJ and only killed six and wounded 23,,, It likely woulld have had a better outcome if the shitbag had chosen a "Judge" instead of killing one, |
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Quoted:
Ok, I keep reading everyone on here complain about the Taurus Judge and call anyone buying them retards and worst. So my question is............................. Whats so bad about them? I mean can anyone give me some viable info on why they are so hated or is it just everyones personal opinion? Please try and give me a reason that they are so horrible and not "they just are" or "only stupid people buy them" crap. Let me clarify something first though. I'm not in the market for one. I just don't think there is anything wrong with them and am curious why people hate them. The problem with the Judge is more marketing than the actual weapon. It's billed as a self defense weapon, when it's really not very good for that at all. 410 bore shotshells just don't get enough penetration to be relied on for self defense. 45 Colt is an excellent cartridge for self defense, but the long chamber throats in a Judge's cylinder contributes to very poor accuracy. The gun is heavy, and is subject to all the issues any other Taurus firearm is subject to in terms of quality control. Basically, it's billed as something that it's a poor performer for. As a trail gun, it would work fine. 410 bore shells for small game and pests (snakes, scorpions, etc), and 45 Colt for medium sized game, coyotes, cougars, or two legged pests. But for an SD revolver, you're much better off with a conventional design chambered in 357 or 44 Magnum. For that matter, a 44 shotshell should do in a snake or scorpion, and thus I wouldn't need to the overweight Judge. I could then carry conventional 44 Special or 44 Magnum ammunition for anything larger. |
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For some better preforming .410 ammo check out Paraklese Tech.
http://www.paraklesetechnologies.com/products.asp?cat=13 Taurus just annouced another Judge called the Raging Judge at the SHOT show. Its a 6.5" bbl 28 gauge! On top of that to get on the sales of Taurus, Smith and Wesson just release the Governor in .45 ACP/.45 Colt/.410! CD |
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The Judge has gone wild! Some of this stuff is hilarious
http://www.rossiusa.com/2011newcatalog/?catalog_page=1 |
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For some better preforming .410 ammo check out Paraklese Tech. http://www.paraklesetechnologies.com/products.asp?cat=13 Taurus just annouced another Judge called the Raging Judge at the SHOT show. Its a 6.5" bbl 28 gauge! On top of that to get on the sales of Taurus, Smith and Wesson just release the Governor in .45 ACP/.45 Colt/.410! CD I am watting for "corrupt judge" a pre rustted judge. |
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Apparently the trend in politically correct handguns for Americans is a five shot behemouth of a revolver holding no moe than five rounds and remaining lethal at nothing past ten feet.
I am waiting with baited breath for the speedloaders to come on the market,,,, |
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The Judge has gone wild! Some of this stuff is hilarious http://www.rossiusa.com/2011newcatalog/?catalog_page=1 I was walking around SHOT and was like; I think I just saw a Judge carbine with a lever one it. As it turns out I did see a Judge carbine with a lever on it. Now as bad as this is, I can not express my disappointment at seeing S&W's Judge er "Governer". Ick. 
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Quoted: Apparently the trend in politically correct handguns for Americans is a five shot behemouth of a revolver holding no moe than five rounds and remaining lethal at nothing past ten feet. I am waiting with baited breath for the speedloaders to come on the market,,,, Wait you shall no longer ....... http://www.5starfirearms.com/judge.html |
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Quoted:
Ok, I keep reading everyone on here complain about the Taurus Judge and call anyone buying them retards and worst. So my question is............................. Whats so bad about them? I mean can anyone give me some viable info on why they are so hated or is it just everyones personal opinion? Please try and give me a reason that they are so horrible and not "they just are" or "only stupid people buy them" crap. Let me clarify something first though. I'm not in the market for one. I just don't think there is anything wrong with them and am curious why people hate them. because they are being touted as some great new breakthrough. The .45 long colt is overpriced for what it does. .410 shotgun is not a manstopper round. They are a terrible option for carry and self defense and also a bad choice for novalty as they are just cheap taures'. |
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Quoted:
Well none of the tests to date have tested either of the new plated shells form Federal or Winchester, they have all been the transitional non plated lead which doesn't penetrate, because it deforms so until I see some good testing on ammunition made for the Judge, it's not a good argument. Another problem with the testing is almost all of testers hate the judge before they test it, which can only lead to bad results. If the plated ammunition doesn't deform and penetrates well I could see it a viable self defense gun, but it's still big and heavy with limited capacity that is hard to conceal. As far as Tauruses poor quality, yes some of there stuff is crap like the most of their autos, but as far as there revolvers go I have never had any problems with the 5 that own, or the 3 that I sold, to buy something I wanted more. Taurus does suck if you ever have to use there customer service though. And as far as the older 000 buck not being deadly at close range this argument is also a joke, and any one that thinks it isn't deadly go shoot yourself with it at close range and see, you may be surprised. About 30 years ago one of my LEO friends did an investigation on a convenience store robber that sawed off a .410 shotgun to pistol length. The robber would go in rob the clerk, and then shoot him in the face with 000 buck, so they couldn't identify him, the theory was he wanted to blind them, but in fact he killed every one of them, the shots were all at very close range 3-5ft. They did finally stop him, but not before he killed five clerks. So saying .410 isn't lethal at short range is dead wrong, whether it makes it though the bottles of water or not. Plus many of the tests that have been done are at long ranges 15-20yds not the effective range that it would be most likely deployed, more than likely 3-10ft. people die from .22s also. It is still a terrible choice to defend yourself with. The flaw with your logic is that your saying it CAN kill, but that doesnt mean it WILL. If my life is in danger and I do my part, I want know question that my equiptment will carry its weight. Quoted:
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The above post proves the point that if specialized ammunition is needed to make the damn thing work as intended then the overall design concept is flawed. Similar could be said for 9mm. If you don't use good quality hollow points it tends to have lack luster terminal performance. The 45ACP guys love to remind the 9mm guys of that fact. 9mm FMJs will still penetrate enough to get the job done. If the rounds wont reach the vitals, you spent money on the wrong machine. |
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Circuit Judge, Raging Judge, now Governor . This is like some bad dream. WTF?
I have to admit, I thought this mis-Judgement 
by the American (noob) shooting community was coming to an end, but apparently it is alive and well...flourishing even. Despite failing spectacularly at every test of its accuracy or purported "stopping power" the power of marketing and hype keep this turd afloat. I think what pisses people around here off about the Judge is not its performance, so much as the massive over-estimation of its performance by the public. And S&W...son, I am dissapoint. |
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Quoted:
IMO, no snake requires 410 shotgun shells. 45 LC snake shot would do the job just fine. So I render that part of the Judge as marketing BS. Aside from that, it is a HUGE .45 LC gun that wastes so much room in the cylinder (to be able to hold the useless 410) and essentially borrows that space from the barrel. So you kill the performance of the 45 LC and have a huge gun in the process. IMO, it's a gun that's not good at anything functional. But... it's probably fun to shoot. So that can means something. come hunt in the florida swamps and see if you keep that opinion
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Quoted:
Ok, I keep reading everyone on here complain about the Taurus Judge and call anyone buying them retards and worst. So my question is............................. Whats so bad about them? I mean can anyone give me some viable info on why they are so hated or is it just everyones personal opinion? Please try and give me a reason that they are so horrible and not "they just are" or "only stupid people buy them" crap. Let me clarify something first though. I'm not in the market for one. I just don't think there is anything wrong with them and am curious why people hate them. They are properly reviled because as a tool of serious self defense the judge is outclassed in every possible dimension by weapons far better suited for the task such as the Glock 19. You have absolutely no idea how many bad guys have met their doom at the pointy end of a Glock 19. The judge is a gimmick weapon produced to capitalize (literally) on people's ignorance. There is this myth out there that shotgun rounds are somehow the hammer of thor and the judge is sold primarily on this idea. |
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I'm trying to figure out how that new "Raging Judge" 28ga. revolver is not an AOW. Anyone know? I think people are quietly avoiding that question (like Rossi's .410 Mare's Leg that doesn't also fire .45 LC) as they are afraid if they ask it will attract the .gov's attention... |
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There is no facepalm picture that accurately describes my thoughts and opinions on the subject matter to the extent necessary. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yes there is.
My .02 The Judge is nothing more than a money maker for a company. Not very capable with either the .410 or 45LC, large, and heavy. It serves no specific purpose other than "cool factor". Not saying you can't use it for something, but why not buy something else better suited to the task?.......makes too much sense I guess. 
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I'm trying to figure out how that new "Raging Judge" 28ga. revolver is not an AOW. Anyone know? I think it will be interesting if these actually make it out to dealers and onto the street. Yep, I wonder if this is part of the ATF's announcement on Monday. |
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I know a guy who has one, he calls it his 'barn gun'. I guess he's shot a couple opossums with it so far. Probably work on raccoons or armadillos too, oh, and snakes... I would play with one if someone gave it to me, would probably pay someone 150-200 for one if I had the chance (wait a couple years?  ). I have other guns that are primarily toys, why not.I would not carry one for self defense, probably wouldn't carry a proper 45LC for SD either. Trail gun? Maybe. Maybe not. I'll be interested to see how the new S&W does with 45ACP. Could almost see that being a 'survival' type pistol, if it has any accuracy at all that is. Still can't see how it does anything a 22LR can't do lighter and more accurately. Neither are man stoppers (though, yes, they can kill someone). If I had my druthers, I'd get a Medusa to play multi-caliber with, but try finding one... |
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I'm trying to figure out how that new "Raging Judge" 28ga. revolver is not an AOW. Anyone know? I think it will be interesting if these actually make it out to dealers and onto the street. Yep, I wonder if this is part of the ATF's announcement on Monday. Follow this logic circle. The R.J. is rifled, but also chambers and fires a standard shotgun cartridge, so using the sporting exemption it is not a DD. The 12GA From Hell guys uses this to their advantage. Designing a big bore rifle around a rifled 12 gauge. Their guns can chamber and fire 12ga shells, but also the 12gaFH shells made from .50BMG brass. Big bore, high performance, but not a DD. Also, it is not an AOW as short pistol gripped pumps. The R.J. has no forearm/foregrip at all, it is a straight up revolver. Is this making any sense? How about a 28/20/12ga Derringer/Howdah pistol? 
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