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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/24/2006 4:00:38 PM EDT
Who makes the better product? And why?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:17:56 PM EDT
Rather than rehash everything that has been discussed before, just carefully read the topics in this forum. go visit a gun shop and ask to see and handle both brands of similar models, form your own opinions and then report back to us. Everybody has their favorites, tell us what yours is after doing the above.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:23:27 PM EDT
Definetely Kimber! Hands down! I hav had a bit of experience with both and Kimber takes the cake. First the finish is much, much better! The green finished SA came the first time cleaned with Hoppes elite, not a little fading fixed w/CLP like blueing, I mean come off like paint being stripped. I found SA to be picky about ammo and part interchanability somewhat narrow on SA. I own 3 Kimbers and have never had 1 single FTF, FTE, or stovepipe, I cannot say the same of the SA.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:55:46 PM EDT
Definetly try both. What feels right in our hands may not be so much in yours. I will say a Springer Mil-spec or G.I. is an nice starter 1911 if you're a newbie to the weapon, that you can add your own doo-dads to if you like/need. My massaged Springer Mil-spec Gvt. has been USED well. Exposed to fine, silty, dirt/sand (under house doing plumbing), patted the holster hard to clear the excess crap, and shot that evening. Not a hiccup. I also have a Kimber Ultra carry that had rounds hanging up on the slide stop. One phone call and detailed explaination later I had a new slide stop and she's been good ever since. HTH
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:14:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 6:31:10 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:20:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:
6 or one and hald dozen of the Other. I own both



SGB is a wise man.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:40:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NvrenufRR:
Definetely Kimber! Hands down! I hav had a bit of experience with both and Kimber takes the cake. First the finish is much, much better! The green finished SA came the first time cleaned with Hoppes elite, not a little fading fixed w/CLP like blueing, I mean come off like paint being stripped. I found SA to be picky about ammo and part interchanability somewhat narrow on SA. I own 3 Kimbers and have never had 1 single FTF, FTE, or stovepipe, I cannot say the same of the SA.

My experience has been almost 180 degrees different. Try both and make your decision from first hand knowledge. Both are good guns, both have had problems for different folks. I prefer Springers to the Kimbers I have owned, but YMMV!
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:15:28 PM EDT
OK

Who is better and sexier?

Blondes or Brunettes??
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:44:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By SGB:
6 or one and hald dozen of the Other. I own both



SGB is a wise man.



But a crappy speller.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 11:08:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 9:41:13 AM EDT by ALPHAGHOST]
toss up....i own: 2 SA (loaded and champion), 1 Kimber TLE, and a (newly aquired) SW 1911 PD

i got em all used, but i must say that i like the kimber the best--better fit, finish, and shooting than my SAs

also, the grip screw bushings on my SAs are all messed up--one set is too wide and the other is loose...

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 2:53:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JYogi:
OK

Who is better and sexier?

Blondes or Brunettes??


brunettes, by far.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:04:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GlobalFear:

Originally Posted By JYogi:
OK

Who is better and sexier?

Blondes or Brunettes??


brunettes, by far.



I agree - especially Asian babes :p
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:59:18 PM EDT
I say Kimber and Blondes.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 8:05:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 8:06:31 AM EDT by Spartan24]
Kimbers hands down.

Here's why:

1. Kimber is all American made. Springfield is Brazilian. Just look on the under side of the dust guard on the frame and look at the import stamp. You'll see "IMBEL-BRAZIL".

2. Better fit and finish. Kimbers you can pick up and with both hands try to rock the slide and the frame. There will be very little movement. On the Springfield, there is a lot more movement and play. Kimber will shoot more true and smoother.

3. Kimber makes all the parts on that pistol in house. They do not subcontract out for safety levers or slide stops. Every part on that Kimber is made by Kimber for Kimber.

4. Innovation. The reason 1911s are so popular in contemporary America is thanks to Kimber. When the industry was down, Colt dropped the ball and Springfield never picked it up. Kimber came along and set the modern standard for a production 1911.

I'll take an American gun over a brazilian one anyday for the previous reasons.

Oh, and brunettes of course...
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 8:29:13 AM EDT
1) No, not all S/A are made in Brazil

2) Better fit and finish... Again, that is up for debate, I have both and am happy with both but have seen questionable finish jobs from each company

3) Are you sure 100% is made by Kimber? I don't think so, I do know that they started making quite a bit of it themselves recently, all could be made in house but I am not sure either way on that.

4) Kimber just started putting together Semi Custom pieces on a larger scale before most others did. S/A has the custom shop and their custom work is a little ahead of Kimbers in my eyes.

5) Kimber has the dreaded External Extractor. Kimber has has some serious QC issues in the past

Neither are flawless, both have their own Pros and Cons...

Look over at 1911 Forums, I see many more complaints from owners about thier Kimbers there than the S/A pieces of current production. So, get out there and play with both and decide from there.

I love my Kimber Pre Series II Compact CDP and would not sell it, I love my S/A guns and would not sell them either but in the current market I would buy S/A or only Kimber if I was getting a Pre Series II gun.


Originally Posted By Spartan24:
Kimbers hands down.

Here's why:

1. Kimber is all American made. Springfield is Brazilian. Just look on the under side of the dust guard on the frame and look at the import stamp. You'll see "IMBEL-BRAZIL".

2. Better fit and finish. Kimbers you can pick up and with both hands try to rock the slide and the frame. There will be very little movement. On the Springfield, there is a lot more movement and play. Kimber will shoot more true and smoother.

3. Kimber makes all the parts on that pistol in house. They do not subcontract out for safety levers or slide stops. Every part on that Kimber is made by Kimber for Kimber.

4. Innovation. The reason 1911s are so popular in contemporary America is thanks to Kimber. When the industry was down, Colt dropped the ball and Springfield never picked it up. Kimber came along and set the modern standard for a production 1911.

I'll take an American gun over a brazilian one anyday for the previous reasons.

Oh, and brunettes of course...

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 9:08:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JYogi:
OK

Who is better and sexier?

Blondes or Brunettes??



Get both.

I can't give you feedback because I only have a SA.

Tagged for more info.


_______________________


Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:09:16 AM EDT
Fit and finish is similar. Parts quality is similar. Both use a ton of MIM parts. Kimber does make theirs in-house. Kimber does not support the IDPA, USPSA or other shooting sports. Springfield does. Kimber just switched back to internal extractors which is a good thing. Kimber has a firing pin safety which I think is a VERY bad thing. If you loosen your grip a bit, the gun can fail to fire, even if the hammer drops.

so... you have similar quality guns, both with adherants and detractors. One doesn't support shooting sports and that same one has a potentially fatal "safety". Guess which one I choose?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 11:47:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spartan24:
Kimbers hands down.

Here's why:

1. Kimber is all American made. Springfield is Brazilian. Just look on the under side of the dust guard on the frame and look at the import stamp. You'll see "IMBEL-BRAZIL".

2. Better fit and finish. Kimbers you can pick up and with both hands try to rock the slide and the frame. There will be very little movement. On the Springfield, there is a lot more movement and play. Kimber will shoot more true and smoother.

3. Kimber makes all the parts on that pistol in house. They do not subcontract out for safety levers or slide stops. Every part on that Kimber is made by Kimber for Kimber.

4. Innovation. The reason 1911s are so popular in contemporary America is thanks to Kimber. When the industry was down, Colt dropped the ball and Springfield never picked it up. Kimber came along and set the modern standard for a production 1911.

I'll take an American gun over a brazilian one anyday for the previous reasons.

Oh, and brunettes of course...



Thank you.

Kimber, and screw y'all, REDHEADS!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:50:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:46:15 AM EDT
KIMBER ALL THE WAY.

I have the NEW kimber CUSTOM grand raptor 2 and i love the thang wish i had a 2nd for display.

GO buy an AMERICAN guy trust kimber and there support and the customer service is great. they have already sent me 2 FREE replacement parts with free shipping.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 2:43:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 3:11:47 AM EDT
I own both, I like both equally, like it was said before both have their ups & downs.

Springfields high dollar pistols are just as good in the fit finish and function as the Kimbers.

I think some people here might be comparing apples to oranges by comparing the $400 Springfields to a $700 Kimber. That just don't work.....

Also, you can't fairly compare the two if you only own or have owned 1 brand or the other.

Just my .02
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:41:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JYogi:
OK

Who is better and sexier?

Blondes or Brunettes??



Whatever one has bigger boobies!
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:00:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By badassRRA:
KIMBER ALL THE WAY.

I have the NEW kimber CUSTOM grand raptor 2 and i love the thang wish i had a 2nd for display.

GO buy an AMERICAN guy trust kimber and there support and the customer service is great. they have already sent me 2 FREE replacement parts with free shipping.



If we're going to get into the "buy American" thing, we should also get into the issue of who actually supports the shooting sports. How many prizes has Kimber sent to Regional IDPA or USPSA matches? Have they sponsored or supported any of them? What do they do to promote shooting sports? Who do they sponsor? Do they put their money where their mouth is? Do they give back to the shooting community? Springfield does.

You may get a frame and slide that started life in Brazil with Springfield, but at least you're supporting a company that supports shooters. The guns are finished and assembled here by Americans and the customer support is outstanding.

Sorry, I have a chip on my shoulder about this. Getting the "buy American" thing thrown into the mix really annoys me when its for a company that reaps the benefits of the resurgance of the 1911 but doesn't give back to the organizations that do so much to prod that along.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:46:37 AM EDT
springfield has better warranty.
kimber has a no dealer loyalty
kimber has a very costly dealer buy in. need to buy shotgun and rifles not only pistols
i manage a gun shop and we stocked kimber pistols two years ago
within a six month time i had six/ 6 other shops inside 10 miles of me
no loyalty never own one never sell a new one.
my .02
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:49:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crackerbill2:
springfield has better warranty.
kimber has a no dealer loyalty
kimber has a very costly dealer buy in. need to buy shotgun and rifles not only pistols
i manage a gun shop and we stocked kimber pistols two years ago
within a six month time i had six/ 6 other shops inside 10 miles of me
no loyalty never own one never sell a new one.
my .02



It's called the free market.

You're welcome to buy in and compete with others for their business.

They have no obligation to be, "loyal" to you.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:48:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cliffy109:
Fit and finish is similar. Parts quality is similar. Both use a ton of MIM parts. Kimber does make theirs in-house. Kimber does not support the IDPA, USPSA or other shooting sports. Springfield does. Kimber just switched back to internal extractors which is a good thing. Kimber has a firing pin safety which I think is a VERY bad thing. If you loosen your grip a bit, the gun can fail to fire, even if the hammer drops.

so... you have similar quality guns, both with adherants and detractors. One doesn't support shooting sports and that same one has a potentially fatal "safety". Guess which one I choose?



As far as firing pin safeties: Does Kimber put them in all models? Can they be removed (w/out impairing function?)

Thanks

sst7
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:52:51 AM EDT
While I'm not sure what else I can add to this, I picked a SA over a kimber primarily because I liked the Novak sights better on the SA's than the Kimber sights. Also I was having a hard time finding an internal extractor Kimber in 5" when I went a looking. Finally, I'm a big fan of the 20LPI checkering (tip off to what SA I have) and a life time warranty is always nice.

Also I'd consider what you're using it for. I expect tight groups out of my TRP for personal protection work, but if I'm shooting minute of man with my USGI 1911's at 25 yards I'm really happy. I've got a few 1911s in the safe and the only problems with those that I've had have been magazine related (switched to a different mag and the problem went away). The only 1911 I've owned that was just a bad gun was an Auto-ordnance, but I honestly believe that if you buy a good 1911 and use good mags you shouldn't have a problem at all.

So, my advice in this situation is figure out your intended application and then figure out which manufacturer produces a model that fits your needs and preferences. Both are very good manufacters and neither should let you down.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:53:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SST7Alumni:


As far as firing pin safeties: Does Kimber put them in all models? Can they be removed (w/out impairing function?)

Thanks

sst7



The Warrior doesn't have it. I think there may be others that don't either.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:07:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cliffy109:

The Warrior doesn't have it. I think there may be others that don't either.



Thanks

sst7
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:23:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crackerbill2:
springfield has better warranty.
kimber has a no dealer loyalty
kimber has a very costly dealer buy in. need to buy shotgun and rifles not only pistols
i manage a gun shop and we stocked kimber pistols two years ago
within a six month time i had six/ 6 other shops inside 10 miles of me
no loyalty never own one never sell a new one.
my .02



Looks like they have changed their dealer program. We are a Master dealer and dont stock any of their long guns. Their sales requirement is $5000.00 a year which is pretty easy to spend.

Now Glock and Wilson Combat's stocking dealer program...

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:46:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:04:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shadowblade:

You can remove the safety by simply replacing the Kimber firing pin with a standard firing pin.



Thanks Shadowblade


sst7
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:03:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cliffy109:
Fit and finish is similar. Parts quality is similar. Both use a ton of MIM parts. Kimber does make theirs in-house. Kimber does not support the IDPA, USPSA or other shooting sports. Springfield does. Kimber just switched back to internal extractors which is a good thing. Kimber has a firing pin safety which I think is a VERY bad thing. If you loosen your grip a bit, the gun can fail to fire, even if the hammer drops.

so... you have similar quality guns, both with adherants and detractors. One doesn't support shooting sports and that same one has a potentially fatal "safety". Guess which one I choose?



i'm picking up mine in the next two weeks, noob question, can you please explain how a loose grip would cause it to fail even if the hammer falls, i understand the grip safety, and making sure it's pressed but what has that got to do with the FP. I've noticed on the one i'm picking up, the grip safety has to be pressed all the way for the hammer to fall, not like the others i've tried where a minimum amount of pressure will work.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:15:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By marc1979:


i'm picking up mine in the next two weeks, noob question, can you please explain how a loose grip would cause it to fail even if the hammer falls, i understand the grip safety, and making sure it's pressed but what has that got to do with the FP. I've noticed on the one i'm picking up, the grip safety has to be pressed all the way for the hammer to fall, not like the others i've tried where a minimum amount of pressure will work.



The firing pin safety is activated by the movement of the grip safety. It is possible (in theory anyway) to adjust the grip safety to a point where it will allow the hammer to fall, but not far enough to move the block out of the way of the firing pin. Just be careful "sensitizing" the grip safety.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:23:05 AM EDT
okay, i thought the firing pin safety on a series 80 was deactivated by the trigger.

i could be wrong though.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:50:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 10:54:08 AM EDT by SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

god knows how many rounds and how much shit I put her through but she never let me down even in the closest and most duress firefights

but at the same time I did get to work a little with the DET-1 kimbers and I likey.....and also never heard any complaints from any of the other guys.


As far as firing pin safeties: Does Kimber put them in all models?


not in the warrior and DET-1 guns thats why I own one...
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:51:43 AM EDT
Kimber

I have experience with one Springfield POS and three Kimbers. The Kimbers have been flawless.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:59:49 AM EDT
Why is it these threads always end up being worthless? Do you guys really think that your limited experiences with one or two pistols from either company is even remotely enough to make blanket statements about their quality? Not to mention that many of these issues could have probably been cleared up with proper 1911 maintenance/cleaning/lubrication.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:09:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By marc1979:
okay, i thought the firing pin safety on a series 80 was deactivated by the trigger.

i could be wrong though.



Colt and Sig use the trigger activated safeties. Kimber and S&W use one connected to the grip safety.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:25:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cliffy109:

Originally Posted By marc1979:
okay, i thought the firing pin safety on a series 80 was deactivated by the trigger.

i could be wrong though.



Colt and Sig use the trigger activated safeties. Kimber and S&W use one connected to the grip safety.



so i shouldn't have anything to worry about as long as i use the proper grip and not try firing sideways, upside down, or limp wristing it.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:38:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By marc1979:

so i shouldn't have anything to worry about as long as i use the proper grip and not try firing sideways, upside down, or limp wristing it.



Bingo Gringo. You also will not have any issues if you don't go "sensitizing" the grip safety. Quite honestly, that is something I do on my guns and that would put me at a larger risk for a problem than a person who just leaves well enough along.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:23:25 PM EDT
Kimber has a better fit & finish.
SA never met a sharp edge they didn't like.( at least when I had mine)
Had an SA and it was a POS. Have 3 Kimbers now, no problems from any of them.
YMMV

Just get both and decide for yourself.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:45:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 5:46:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:34:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 10:39:09 AM EDT by SIMPLYDYNAMIC]

Do you guys really think that your limited experiences with one or two pistols from either company is even remotely enough to make blanket statements about their quality?


limited???...........ok im sorry, I will stop posting in the future then.......

Oh and also I guess im busted then...I admit that MEUSOC above is actually brand new I just use about 6 bags of Brillo Pads to make it look that way...

by the way, nice post Shadowblade!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:48:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SIMPLYDYNAMIC:

Do you guys really think that your limited experiences with one or two pistols from either company is even remotely enough to make blanket statements about their quality?


limited???...........ok im sorry, I will stop posting in the future then.......

Oh and also I guess im busted then...I admit that MEUSOC above is actually brand new I just use about 6 bags of Brillo Pads to make it look that way...




Do you honestly think that statement was meant for you? Please rest assured it was not.
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