Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 10/25/2004 3:46:26 AM EDT
Hey guys,

I’m considering getting a new S&W 686 4” 357 but I just learned that S&W added a “politically correct” internal key\lock system.

Other than the fact that’s it’s completely useless and is only there for “PCness”, is there any down side to it? I know that some of these new “safety systems” have been reported to cause issues so I’m curious to hear if this is one of them and maybe I would be better off with an older S&W that doesn't have that “feature”

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:47:52 AM EDT
I've heard a lot of discussion about the S&W lock, but so far nobody has actually had any kind of mechanical failure or stoppage caused by one.

The S&W lock is an insert in the frame, just below the cylinder release button. When rotated it puts a steel block in the path of the hammer and prevents it from moving back.

From appearances, this is about as fool-proof a revolver safety as I've seen.
It seems to stay put in the locked or unlocked position, and doesn't move from either position on it's own.

It's fairly low profile, and you can choose to use it or not.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:53:31 AM EDT
I recently bought a 4" 686 like you are considering.

You can't tell the difference in the trigger between the PC lock and one without.

But, if you don't like it, hit the EE and see what's there.

Smith&Wesson does offer a $200 combat package thru the custom shop, they tune your trigger, bead blast finish the gun, and some other stuff. May end up sending mine in.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 10:57:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 10:58:18 AM EDT by Gloftoe]
If it were me, I'd remove the grip and try to find a way to take the internals of the "lock" out of the revolver. I don't need extra shit on ANY firearm that might make it inoperable. Firearms are complex enough as it is, they don't need extra "locks" and "tabs" and "shit" to fail and cause malfunction. Stupidity with firearms can't be solved with an "internal lock! What a great feature!" It's just another useless addition that the gungrabbers wanted that some manufactures gave them. Wonder what they'll ask for next?

I'd guess all the internals are in there with the mainspring and such. Get in there and rip em out You can't do anything about the external "lock" port, but if there aren't any internals attached to it, your (potential) problem is gone.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 2:48:25 PM EDT
I have not taken a new S&W apart to take a look-see at how this safety works, but I have seen too many other so-called "safties" or other additions that have no place on a serious duty gun. The older trigger stops included on 4 and 6in. S&Ws would rotate undetr recoil and jam the triggers, and several of the early gas rings and yoke cuts actually made fouling worse rather than better on the S&W magnums. There is a misconception that revolvers are totally reliable...emphatically NOT true...but S&WS actually made a few things worse with their trying to make a cheaper gun during the 1970's and 80's.

Me? I would haunt the EE and other boards until I found an older model without this abortion...but that's just me...too many of these around (they certainly are not "rare") for me to take a chance.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:30:37 PM EDT
It's fine, buy one.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:53:29 AM EDT
The S&W safety is NOT accessible by removing the grip, nor does it work on the mainspring.

The lock is in the right side of the frame just below the cylinder release finger piece.
It rotates, and moves a lug on the back side of the lock into the path of the hammer.

To see the interior of the lock and how it works, the entire action has to be disassembled.

Removing the lock, will leave a hole in the revolver's frame.

I haven't had a really good look at one, but I think it could be disabled by grinding the interior lug off.

This is all moot. The lock stays ON, and stays OFF. If you choose not to use it, it won't suddenly engage and lock up the gun.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:46:04 AM EDT
Thanks for the input guys.

I decided to pass on this gun and look for an older one when time & money allows. I did not pass because I felt this new lock will cause any issue. I passed simply because it is an annoying, ugly, unneeded "feature" that can not be removed without leaving a bunch of unnecessary holes. See the pic the seller provided if you are not familiar with S&W's "latest innovation" I sure these new models work just as well as the old ones but for my money, I would rather not have the lock.

Link Posted: 11/1/2004 3:01:27 AM EDT
Have any of you actually bought one of these abortions? S&W has come come out with a couple of new guns I would have bought , blued Mtn Guns, TRS M21, but I haven't bought a Smith since they started with that shit and never will again. Unless it's used, and doesn't lock. I mean that thing just looks like and asshole on the side of the gun. Why not make that POS an option? I have done numerous Google searches for gunsmiths who will remove it and weld up the frame and have come up dry. Has anyone heard of this being done? I still wouldn't want to give S&W my money but I would like to send them a picture and a "Look what I did fuckers".
Rant off
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 8:08:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 45coltfan:
Have any of you actually bought one of these abortions? S&W has come come out with a couple of new guns I would have bought , blued Mtn Guns, TRS M21, but I haven't bought a Smith since they started with that shit and never will again. Unless it's used, and doesn't lock. I mean that thing just looks like and asshole on the side of the gun. Why not make that POS an option? I have done numerous Google searches for gunsmiths who will remove it and weld up the frame and have come up dry. Has anyone heard of this being done? I still wouldn't want to give S&W my money but I would like to send them a picture and a "Look what I did fuckers".
Rant off



Tell us how you really feel.

I think it would be just FOOLISH to buy one with the safety lock on it, and then spend the money to have the feature removed. I can assure you, no reputable gunsmith will remove a safety feature.

You, and folks like you, are better off scouring the used market to find the guns you want. Hell, with the auction sites, and a little effort, you should be able to find any model you want NIB.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 10:54:01 AM EDT
I have a Model 60-15 .357 mag with the internal lock. When I first purchased the gun, I oafishly knocked it (unloaded!) off a counter onto a hardwood floor. When I picked it up, the gun was totally locked up (although the "Locked" indicator was not raised up). I was pretty distressed, until I remembered the internal lock. After I dug out the "keys" that came with the gun, I locked the lock fully and then unlocked it, and everything returned to normal.

Now, I'm not necessarily down on S&W because of this one problem I had. After all, I was the numbskull who knocked it 3" to the floor - something that is probably a little out of the gun's usual specs for performance.

On the other hand, I can see there being a situation in which one might drop one's carry gun (say, in a struggle) and then need it to function in a hurry. So, I'm not thrilled about what happened, or indeed about the lock even being there.

The upshot is that I've stuck one of those stupid "keys" on my keyring, just in case. That and I never carry the 60-15 by itself - always with another J-frame as back-up.

(Other than that, the 60-15 is a heck of a nice gun!)
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 1:41:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Erich:
I have a Model 60-15 .357 mag with the internal lock. When I first purchased the gun, I oafishly knocked it (unloaded!) off a counter onto a hardwood floor. When I picked it up, the gun was totally locked up (although the "Locked" indicator was not raised up). I was pretty distressed, until I remembered the internal lock. After I dug out the "keys" that came with the gun, I locked the lock fully and then unlocked it, and everything returned to normal.

Now, I'm not necessarily down on S&W because of this one problem I had. After all, I was the numbskull who knocked it 3" to the floor - something that is probably a little out of the gun's usual specs for performance.

On the other hand, I can see there being a situation in which one might drop one's carry gun (say, in a struggle) and then need it to function in a hurry. So, I'm not thrilled about what happened, or indeed about the lock even being there.

The upshot is that I've stuck one of those stupid "keys" on my keyring, just in case. That and I never carry the 60-15 by itself - always with another J-frame as back-up.

(Other than that, the 60-15 is a heck of a nice gun!)


And this, dear readers, is the very reason I'll never own a POS gun with a "keylock" on it. If I happen to buy one with it (like my Springfield Milspec), it promptly comes out by any means necessary.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 3:58:01 PM EDT
There IS, indeed, such a thing as "too safe"... when the operator cannot guarantee that the gun...given good ammo...will fire every time due to some sort of bogus safety mechanism desogned for lawyers and fools. Jeff Cooper...God Bless him...once noted that fools should keep their hands off of machinery.

I have been sorely tempted by a couple of the newer models from S&W but have resisted, due, specifically, to this mechanism. Hopefully, either S&W will relent and go back to the "classic" design...or at least offer it as an option...or I will never buy a new S&W again. (Although I am still sorely tempted!)

Trying to toe the line...
Top Top