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1/16/2020 9:48:49 PM
Posted: 11/14/2012 12:37:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 6:08:55 PM EST by Platypus12]
So I have been talking to a few people lately who are taking a serious interest into conceal carrying and a lot of them come to me for advice and just regular info. And just because I am a curious person I tend to ask what they plan on carrying. It seems like more people are starting to say .45's and I ask why they choose that round. Most of them seem to say "it has more knock down power" or at least something along those lines. Now most of these people are not big gun folk but are still choosing to exercise their right. So it made me wonder, how many who carry a .45 carry it for its "knock down power" vs being able to shoot it better, or another reason?

For the record My two carry pieces are a M&P 9c and a custom 1911 carrying federal 230gr. So I play both sides of the caliber field.

*edit* i just thought i would add that i dint believe in"knock down power" from handguns. If it were a 40mm cannon different story. And i carry the 1911 every place i can because it feels better in my hands and i can put multi rounds on target very quickly. The only time i switch to the m&p is when clothing doesnt permit so well or if i just feel like switching it up. Ty all btw for all of the responses
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 12:49:06 PM EST
.45 does seem to have knockdown power. Also I shoot my 1911s pretty well along with my Sig 220s
If I have to shoot someone I want every advantage I can get. Carry the largest caliber you are comfortable shooting and can shoot well is the advice I give when asked
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 12:56:18 PM EST
I shoot better with my 10 year old Glock 30 than just about any carry sized gun I have ever owned, borrowed or rented. I have owned several G19s including a new G19 that sits in the safe most of the time
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 1:04:41 PM EST
In my case, I carry a .45 because I like the trigger of 1911 style pistols, plus they just seem to fit my hand properly.

If the only .45 available was a Glock, and the only 1911 available was a .38 Super, I would carry a .38 Super. HEY!!! I do that some times now.

Link Posted: 11/14/2012 1:20:50 PM EST
I think if I was to carry a 45 it would be a g30. I currently carry a g29 (10mm) and some days a p239 sas in 9mm. If 1911s weren't so damn heavy I would carry one. I shoo them well but being of a smaller build they are just a bit big to carry concealed on my persons.

Other than that 45 is a great round and "knocked" down a many many bad guys during all of our wars.

However carrying it under the reasoning of it has the most knockdown power .......well that's a whole other topic and depending on who your trying to explain that to in the real life can be just a waste of breath lol
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 1:21:04 PM EST
If I were only concerned about carrying what I could shoot best, it would be a .22. A .45 has great knockdown power, just be sure to carry a modern defensive load designed to expand after penetrating clothing, especially this time of year. To me, a .45 doesn't recoil any worse than a .40 and actually has a different recoil than a 9mm, not as sharp.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 1:26:48 PM EST
I carry .45 because that's what my 1911 shoots
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 1:27:26 PM EST
I carry either a G26 with 147gr Ranger T's, or a G30 with 230gr PDX-1's

What drives my decision? I get tired of one and switch to the other. I'm very proficient with them both. Both have the same night sights and lightened trigger. I shoot them equally well. I think one day I just got tired of looking at my 30 in the safe. So I'll carry it during the cold months and the 26 in the summer.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 2:15:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Wyzardd:
I carry .45 because that's what my 1911 shoots


Bingo!

Link Posted: 11/14/2012 3:49:31 PM EST
I just shoot it better! The 1911 trigger is still awsome. Stopping power? Maybe. However, I believe most modern defense rounds have improved for stopping power that the difference is negligible.

You still have to put the round center mass.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 4:18:38 PM EST
I carry .45 because my sidearm is a 5" 1911, every day. I don't carry it because it has more stopping power, though I believe it does ( calm down 9mm guys, Im not saying it penetrates better...), I carry it because a 5" 1911 is the softest recoiling most accurate and best feeling handgun for me. The only time I don't carry a .45 is if I can't hide a full-size, then its time for the trusty J Frame.
A lot of folks will always pick a .45 over another caliber because for one it is THE American round, and we have built a legend (some will say myth) that the .45 is the most devastating pistol round there is. Back in the days of only ball ammo, you can bet your ass .45 was the better choice, and that mindset lives on in many folks
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 5:19:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By dunndw:
.45 does seem to have knockdown power. Also I shoot my 1911s pretty well along with my Sig 220s
If I have to shoot someone I want every advantage I can get. Carry the largest caliber you are comfortable shooting and can shoot well is the advice I give when asked


Which is why I carry a 9 with twice the capacity in a smaller, lighter weapon.

I guess different people have different opinions on which advantages are more important.

I love my 1911 but rarely is it my carry piece.

Link Posted: 11/14/2012 5:20:53 PM EST
Gee, and I always heard the answer was "because they don't make a .46"
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 5:27:10 PM EST
"Knock down power" and "pistol caliber ammo" are two mutually exclusive terms. Even a DE in .50AE won't knock anybody down, so when somebody says that, I automatically label them as ignorant (and stupid, although I know I really shouldn't).
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 5:37:44 PM EST
IMO most modern pistol calibers in quality SD loads are going to perform comparably with some having edges in certain scenarios and uses. Just carry whatever you shoot the quickest and most accurately, with a good ammo.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 7:52:42 PM EST
To me, a .45 doesn't recoil any worse than a .40 and actually has a different recoil than a 9mm, not as sharp.


Are you saying this using a 5" barrel (Re: the weight)? Would you say the for a 3" barrel? Asking because I want to buy a .45 for carry. I have 9mm and am curious please.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 8:02:45 PM EST
I like carrying a 1911, I shoot it well, and it is less snappy then my 40cal carry guns. Also I have a shoulder rig for the 1911, which is more comfortable and easy to access while driving or hunting, which is pretty much what I have spent the last 4 weeks doing. 9mm-45ACP, IMO are good to go for CCW, most non shooter just hear good things about 45ACP and because they don't do research don't realize a 9mm may be a far better choice. It is also cooling off here, so I can carry a full size with out issue, once summer comes around I will be back to 380s and 9mm handguns, because they are just so much easier to conceal.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:23:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By Blaifarm:
To me, a .45 doesn't recoil any worse than a .40 and actually has a different recoil than a 9mm, not as sharp.


Are you saying this using a 5" barrel (Re: the weight)? Would you say the for a 3" barrel? Asking because I want to buy a .45 for carry. I have 9mm and am curious please.


Recoil and muzzle blast in a 3" 1911 is much worse than in a 9mm, and it is exacerbated by the shorter grip. True, the recoil impulse is different, but the magnitude is significant. For slow, aimed shots this isn't really an issue, but double taps are very challenging. This is one of the reasons I'm trying really hard to move to 9mm for my CCW, but the truth is that a compact 1911 is just so much more comfortable to carry.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:36:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 4:42:12 AM EST by skew12]
i carry a glock 30. it is a very smooth gun to shoot, esecially after spending some time with it. IMO it's more or less what you're comfortable shooting. considering that most of the top end hollow point ammo has closed the caliber gaps.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 8:09:17 AM EST
Some days I carry a 9mm, some days I carry a .45. Some days I like beer and some days I like whiskey. I don't give a lot of thought to "stopping power" unless we are talking long guns. Pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 8:39:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By garretts1776:
I carry .45 because my sidearm is a 5" 1911, every day. I don't carry it because it has more stopping power, though I believe it does ( calm down 9mm guys, Im not saying it penetrates better...), I carry it because a 5" 1911 is the softest recoiling most accurate and best feeling handgun for me. The only time I don't carry a .45 is if I can't hide a full-size, then its time for the trusty J Frame.
A lot of folks will always pick a .45 over another caliber because for one it is THE American round, and we have built a legend (some will say myth) that the .45 is the most devastating pistol round there is. Back in the days of only ball ammo, you can bet your ass .45 was the better choice, and that mindset lives on in many folks


Link Posted: 11/15/2012 12:12:27 PM EST
1911 here.

Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:48:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By 351wsl:
Gee, and I always heard the answer was "because they don't make a .46"


But they do make a .50 (ae)... Shouldn't you be carrying that? :-)
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 2:57:46 PM EST
"Knockdown power"

I carry a .45 because I prefer the way it shoots, I am very accurate even in rapid shooting with it, and I like through size hole it makes.

1911 FTW
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 7:42:00 PM EST
I started carrying a .45 because I believed all the hype.
As I have grown i know that is does not matter. 9 vs. .45 meh, whatever...shot placement is the key.
Now I carry a .45 because it is the only gun that meets that mid-range (G30) for concealed. The other carry gun is a J frame.
All of my 9's are in full size frames. Don't feel like carrying those.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 8:11:10 PM EST
i chose the 1911 because you can pistol whip someone with it if needed, i wouldnt want to just give someone a wicked plastic rash
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 8:46:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 8:47:08 PM EST by Mr45auto]
I carry a .45 because of all the medium size game animals I've shot with one have been decisively put down. I cannot say that for the other handguns I've carried. I shoot my particular handguns well and I'm confident in them. That said, I also carry an LCP in .380 when I cannot conceal a .45 so I guess I carry the biggest thing I can in the given situation.

Hopefully I'll never have to find out how they do on an attacker.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 8:56:06 PM EST
I mostly carry my 45 during cold weather. If heavy winter clothing is gonna turn my HPs into ball, a big hole is better. Most of the time, I carry a Glock 29. In areas known for gang issues, my 20 shot 9mm is a comfort.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:51:03 AM EST
Because I don't want to CC the duramatic m-101....
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:55:36 AM EST
I carry a .45 because the ridiculous state I live in bans magazines over 10 rounds. I figure that if I can only carry a few rounds, they might as well be big ones. Sig P220 Carry 8+1.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 4:02:54 PM EST
I love the .45 round, and I love 1911's. They are easy to carry if you can get over the weight which isn't that hard. The .45 out of a 1911 is easy to shoot and stay on target.

The .45 won't blow someone off their feet but I do believe that more mass can be better in a pistol round. The .45 is big slow and heavy, it's slow but 800-900 fps will still make you dead.

One more thing I love about the .45 is that almost any ammo you buy can be good for defense. I carry hollow points but ball ammo will work in a pinch.

I am not a .45 fanboy though, I also play both sides I have two Glock 19's that I rotate and carry and I am working on another 9mm Glock.

IMO, the .45 is just a great close quarters defense round.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 11:26:31 AM EST
I switch back and forth between my XD45 and my XDm9. I prefer the 45 for the way it shoots so I find myself carrying that more often.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 9:24:35 PM EST
I can't believe that it's the year 2012 and people with internet access are talking about "knockdown power"
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 10:21:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 10:28:54 PM EST by Ticonderoga]
There is no such thing as "knock down" power. This is a Hollywood myth that is along the lines of someone getting blown backwards 10' from a 12 gauge shotgun.

What the .45 does do is make the biggest hole with sufficient penetration. If shot with a reliable 9mm, .40 or .45 that can all penetrate 12'', the .45 usually has the largest mushroom.

What actually puts someone down "instantly" is a spine or brain shot. If you have a bigger bullet, a near miss with a 9mm could be a instantaneous stop with a .45

This is why the .357 has always had such a notorious reputation for being a "one stop shot" gun. Not because it creates so much "hydrostatic shock" with its velocity but because (prior to today's more reliably expanding hollowpoints) it was the only handgun fast enough to get a lead bullet to mushroom properly. Back in 1991 when all you had was a Hydroshock or some poorly designed hollow point, you didn't get much expansion. .38 round nose bullets left a .38 hole, 9mm hollow points left a half inch hole and the .357 left a 1" hole (even a 125gr jacketed soft point will open considerably). Today's hollowpoints expand reliably (some better than others) and this will, over time, negate the.375's reign as king of the one stop shots. I suspect in two decades, cops will be reporting how there are more .45 one stop shots than any other caliber.

Additionally, the .45 is going to let out more blood - whether the bullet (9mm, 40 or 45) hits an artery or not - and with the .45, you have a greater chance of hitting an artery or other major organ.

Again and again I see people saying "any modern hollowpoint" is about the same in performance. Not true - the .45 HST 230gr (or 230gr +P) load is top for permanent wound cavity (size of hole x depth) which means you leave a bigger hole in the bad guy - greater chance for spine, artery & bleed out canal.

A 9mm that only expands to .75" - when compared to a .45 that expands to.95" may not seem like a lot, but think of this: A quarter is .95" wide and a dime is .75 inches wide. If I took two rods of iron, one a dime width and one a quarter width and I was going to run one through your chest in a random area, which would you prefer? Which do you think you would have a better chance of surviving?

After reading the AR-15 "best ammo for self defense" links & the accompanying FBI reports & made the switch from 9 & .40 to .45 (just two months ago).

This truth is slowly replacing the pseudo science of the 1990's ("energy" as an effect of handgun rounds & "hydrostatic shock" at handgun velocities). Remember, the bullet only hits the target with as much "knock down power" as the recoil felt in the shooter's hand. My .45 "kicks" a lot more than my 9mm. But even so, that kick is no more than a punch to someone's chest. Where you get your results is penetration and hole size.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 8:02:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ticonderoga:
There is no such thing as "knock down" power. This is a Hollywood myth that is along the lines of someone getting blown backwards 10' from a 12 gauge shotgun... snip
.


I carry a 45 and these points are right along my same thoughts.

My theory on this is if I'm involved in a shooting and I pull a shot, the 45 is going to help compensate for that off target hit, especially in regards to the temporary and permanent wound cavity.

Plus I can shot him with a 45 in the arm and take it off at the elbow!
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:42:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 1:44:49 PM EST by Diesel_Maximus_2992]
Me personally, I purchased a 45 cap for two reasons: bullet size and recoil.

I had th benefit of shooting a glock 26 and a glock 30 side by side and found that 45 translates very well down into subcompact for me. I can put more shot on target quicker with a 45 than I can with a 9mm because of the push tendency of 45acp vs the snap/muzzle flip characteristics of 9mm in that frame size ( my personal results from the side by side). Yes the total energy of the 45 recoil is technically more but I found it much more manageable.

As many have said above me. U have more bullet to work with when talking about expansion and wound cavity size. It's simple physics people. Bigger bullet=bigger hole= more damage. Even if u go back as far as the civil war it was proven hat a bigger slower round is more devistating to soft targets.

As far as round penalty is conserned. I dontneed 19+1. If u look at the actual civilian shooting statistics the average shots fired is between 2-4. All those glock 19 groupies out there will hate this but. YOUR WASTING SIZE AND WEIGHT ON MAGAZINE CAPACITY FOR RULE OF LAW CARRY.

Thirdly. KABOOM is scarier than Bang.. Accuracy is great and all but sometimes he who makes the most NOISE wins. If u are not Acclimated ti it, a 45 WILL scare u shitless. And that personal experience while being BEHIND THE GUN. Now imagine being in front of it. At the average self defence distances even if I don't hit u. I'm going to hurt u.
Oops ... More than two
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 12:46:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Diesel_Maximus_2992:
Me personally, I purchased a 45 cap for two reasons: bullet size and recoil.

I had th benefit of shooting a glock 26 and a glock 30 side by side and found that 45 translates very well down into subcompact for me. I can put more shot on target quicker with a 45 than I can with a 9mm because of the push tendency of 45acp vs the snap/muzzle flip characteristics of 9mm in that frame size ( my personal results from the side by side). Yes the total energy of the 45 recoil is technically more but I found it much more manageable.

As many have said above me. U have more bullet to work with when talking about expansion and wound cavity size. It's simple physics people. Bigger bullet=bigger hole= more damage. Even if u go back as far as the civil war it was proven hat a bigger slower round is more devistating to soft targets.

As far as round penalty is conserned. I dontneed 19+1. If u look at the actual civilian shooting statistics the average shots fired is between 2-4. All those glock 19 groupies out there will hate this but. YOUR WASTING SIZE AND WEIGHT ON MAGAZINE CAPACITY FOR RULE OF LAW CARRY.

Thirdly. KABOOM is scarier than Bang.. Accuracy is great and all but sometimes he who makes the most NOISE wins. If u are not Acclimated ti it, a 45 WILL scare u shitless. And that personal experience while being BEHIND THE GUN. Now imagine being in front of it. At the average self defence distances even if I don't hit u. I'm going to hurt u.
Oops ... More than two


So you think that "making more noise" by firing a bigger round will make up for not hitting your target?

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:25:43 AM EST
The 1911 platform is the main reason I shoot 45acp at all
but knowing that whatever is coming at me will at least get a nice 45 cal hole punched in it, even if the round fails to expand...
is nice to know.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 6:45:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 6:46:49 AM EST by Diesel_Maximus_2992]

Originally Posted By ReservedRealist:
Originally Posted By Diesel_Maximus_2992:
Me personally, I purchased a 45 cap for two reasons: bullet size and recoil.

I had th benefit of shooting a glock 26 and a glock 30 side by side and found that 45 translates very well down into subcompact for me. I can put more shot on target quicker with a 45 than I can with a 9mm because of the push tendency of 45acp vs the snap/muzzle flip characteristics of 9mm in that frame size ( my personal results from the side by side). Yes the total energy of the 45 recoil is technically more but I found it much more manageable.

As many have said above me. U have more bullet to work with when talking about expansion and wound cavity size. It's simple physics people. Bigger bullet=bigger hole= more damage. Even if u go back as far as the civil war it was proven hat a bigger slower round is more devistating to soft targets.

As far as round penalty is conserned. I dontneed 19+1. If u look at the actual civilian shooting statistics the average shots fired is between 2-4. All those glock 19 groupies out there will hate this but. YOUR WASTING SIZE AND WEIGHT ON MAGAZINE CAPACITY FOR RULE OF LAW CARRY.

Thirdly. KABOOM is scarier than Bang.. Accuracy is great and all but sometimes he who makes the most NOISE wins. If u are not Acclimated ti it, a 45 WILL scare u shitless. And that personal experience while being BEHIND THE GUN. Now imagine being in front of it. At the average self defence distances even if I don't hit u. I'm going to hurt u.
Oops ... More than two


So you think that "making more noise" by firing a bigger round will make up for not hitting your target?


Psychological warfare is just as important as physical damage, and my 2" group at 20yrds would beg to differ with u. It's called force of violence. Read my whole post and get back to me. All. Of my points are equal and not mutually exclusive.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 2:32:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By ReservedRealist:
Originally Posted By Diesel_Maximus_2992:
Me personally, I purchased a 45 cap for two reasons: bullet size and recoil.

I had th benefit of shooting a glock 26 and a glock 30 side by side and found that 45 translates very well down into subcompact for me. I can put more shot on target quicker with a 45 than I can with a 9mm because of the push tendency of 45acp vs the snap/muzzle flip characteristics of 9mm in that frame size ( my personal results from the side by side). Yes the total energy of the 45 recoil is technically more but I found it much more manageable.

As many have said above me. U have more bullet to work with when talking about expansion and wound cavity size. It's simple physics people. Bigger bullet=bigger hole= more damage. Even if u go back as far as the civil war it was proven hat a bigger slower round is more devistating to soft targets.

As far as round penalty is conserned. I dontneed 19+1. If u look at the actual civilian shooting statistics the average shots fired is between 2-4. All those glock 19 groupies out there will hate this but. YOUR WASTING SIZE AND WEIGHT ON MAGAZINE CAPACITY FOR RULE OF LAW CARRY.

Thirdly. KABOOM is scarier than Bang.. Accuracy is great and all but sometimes he who makes the most NOISE wins. If u are not Acclimated ti it, a 45 WILL scare u shitless. And that personal experience while being BEHIND THE GUN. Now imagine being in front of it. At the average self defence distances even if I don't hit u. I'm going to hurt u.
Oops ... More than two


So you think that "making more noise" by firing a bigger round will make up for not hitting your target?



Training with the 45 now (vs 9mm) I have noticed a change in mindset - "aim small - miss small" rather than "I have 15 rounds, I can blast as quickly as I can." Just because you're firing a larger gun doesn't mean you have any less chance to hit the target. In contrast, knowing that I'll have a little recoil and the follow up shot may not be quite as quick as a 9mm, I take that extra pause to hold and squeeze rather than jerk the trigger.

I like the idea of a big noise, it will scare his buddy because the guy being aimed at will already be down
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:44:25 AM EST
I own good 9mm, but I find I carry my HK45 full size more than anything else. Why? My first pistol that I bought, on my 21st birthday, was a 45. I love that little fat bullet. I am proficient with both the 45 and 9mm, and have taken classes with each caliber. If I know I am going to a bad area(family member works in construction renovating in "transitional" areas) I feel no less under gunned with a 45(capacity) than a 9, but I bring a couple more magazines!
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