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Posted: 4/21/2016 10:11:00 AM EDT
I'm exclusively a Glock shooter.  In fact, I don't think I've shot more than 100 rounds out of any other kind of gun in the last two years or so.  I have owned other handguns in a silly quest to find the "perfect" handgun but always came back to Glock perfection .



As long as I've owned and shot Glocks, I've drifted the rear sights to compensate for shooting left.  I drifted them significantly.




I've advised other people that it's OK to do the same to their Glocks.  It seems like every other week here in the Glock forum we have someone asking how to fix their Glock hitting left.  If you pore through the archives, you'll probably find dozens of my comments to the effect of "if your hits are repeatable, it's fine to drift the sights".




Over the last year, as my practice and round counts have increased (approximately 20K live rounds since this time last year/ easily 500K dryfire reps), I noticed a funny thing.  I kept hitting right.  I would adjust sights ever so slightly to the left and carry on for a few months until I'd have to do the same thing again.  I've done it three times in the past year.




Yesterday I went out for a short live fire session and discovered I was hitting right (again).  I got the sight pusher and adjusted to get my POI correct and discovered that the rear sight was perfectly centered on the slide.  




As my trigger control has improved, the distance of sight drift required has shrunk to zero.  




I still think the axiom holds true:  "if it's repeatable, it's fine to drift the sights".  But the corollary seems to be that as your skills increase with respect to trigger control, you will find you require less and less rightward sight bias.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:38:03 AM EDT
Funny I started shooting in a two gun match last summer - AR/pistol.

The first match - I ran every piece of steel with my Glock 19 with one shot.

The second match - first target out of the gate - eight inch plate at about seven yards - pulled every shot to the left for 15 rounds!.  Ended up blowing that stage....

It was like I had to go back and learn how to shoot all over again.

Now I am fine and back to normal - LOL

Red
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:55:32 AM EDT
My first Glock I hit left consistently and through something was wrong with my pistol.  Drifted the sight and like you over time I ended up in the center.  I dry fire practice a lot and a focus on straight to the rear trigger presses while not moving the front sight and it solved my left shooting years ago.  I do notice when I start not following my fundamentals my shots start drifting left on target.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:03:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 11:03:41 AM EDT by MP0117]
Shooting low left with most pistols is a normal flinching pattern for untrained (or under-trained) shooters.

It's especially pronounced in Glocks because the thickness of the frame doesn't always allow shooters to keep their trigger finger from flexing against it during the trigger press. That slight touching of the frame is just enough to push the gun slightly low and to the left with a right handed shooter and low/right for a left handed shooter...

As you correctly discovered (and as I've told folks here for years) shooting low/left is typical for right-handed shooters until they gain proper trigger control.

Great post!
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:09:30 PM EDT
I had an RO tell me to quit squeezing my entire trigger hand when I shoot. Just squeeze the trigger, keep a steady grip with the supporting hand. It works for me. Bad habits are hard to break though.

If I dry fired 1300 + times every day, my wife would have my ass.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:19:42 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By zach_:


I had an RO tell me to quit squeezing my entire trigger hand when I shoot. Just squeeze the trigger, keep a steady grip with the supporting hand. It works for me. Bad habits are hard to break though.



If I dry fired 1300 + times every day, my wife would have my ass.
View Quote


 
That's calling milking the trigger.  A conscious decision to grip 100% with the support hand and isolate the trigger finger usually helps.




I can confirm that dry fire in volume may not go over well with the SO.  
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 2:05:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By wtturn:
   That's calling milking the trigger.  A conscious decision to grip 100% with the support hand and isolate the trigger finger usually helps.


I can confirm that dry fire in volume may not go over well with the SO.  
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Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By zach_:
I had an RO tell me to quit squeezing my entire trigger hand when I shoot. Just squeeze the trigger, keep a steady grip with the supporting hand. It works for me. Bad habits are hard to break though.

If I dry fired 1300 + times every day, my wife would have my ass.
   That's calling milking the trigger.  A conscious decision to grip 100% with the support hand and isolate the trigger finger usually helps.


I can confirm that dry fire in volume may not go over well with the SO.  


Or your dog.... My dog trips out and get scared when I click anything on guns.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 4:04:49 PM EDT
I use the rubber band in the ejection port trick so the only annoying sound is the shot timer beep.  
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 4:23:30 PM EDT
For the sake of clarity, when I list my "reps" for dry fire, this includes all the component elements- draws, reloads, transitions, trigger pulls, etc.  
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 4:49:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By wtturn:
For the sake of clarity, when I list my "reps" for dry fire, this includes all the component elements- draws, reloads, transitions, trigger pulls, etc.  
View Quote


Just curious, you draw/dry fire/reload/transition to new target/dry fire 1300+ times a day, every day?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 5:52:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 6:12:36 PM EDT by wtturn]


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Originally Posted By thormx538:





Just curious, you draw/dry fire/reload/transition to new target/dry fire 1300+ times a day, every day?
View Quote





 
It wouldn't surprise me.  




I don't keep a log and I'm loosely estimating my numbers based on averages.




But that's not the point of the OP.  
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:37:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 8:38:06 PM EDT by thormx538]
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Originally Posted By wtturn:


  It wouldn't surprise me.  


I don't keep a log and I'm loosely estimating my numbers based on averages.


But that's not the point of the OP.  
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Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By thormx538:

Just curious, you draw/dry fire/reload/transition to new target/dry fire 1300+ times a day, every day?


  It wouldn't surprise me.  


I don't keep a log and I'm loosely estimating my numbers based on averages.


But that's not the point of the OP.  


I guess my point in asking was that is A LOT of practice compared to most of us, so I wonder if I'd ever be able to train myself out of the low-left tendency if it took that many pulls.

When I got my first Glock, I pushed everything low-left. It's gotten a lot better, and my 9mm Glocks tend to have the rear sight mostly centered, but I still push the G22 and G20L a bit (stock trigger in those, as opposed to a 3.5lb connector and heavy trigger spring in my 9mm's)
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:53:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES:


Or your dog.... My dog trips out and get scared when I click anything on guns.
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Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES:
Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By zach_:
I had an RO tell me to quit squeezing my entire trigger hand when I shoot. Just squeeze the trigger, keep a steady grip with the supporting hand. It works for me. Bad habits are hard to break though.

If I dry fired 1300 + times every day, my wife would have my ass.
   That's calling milking the trigger.  A conscious decision to grip 100% with the support hand and isolate the trigger finger usually helps.


I can confirm that dry fire in volume may not go over well with the SO.  


Or your dog.... My dog trips out and get scared when I click anything on guns.


That's funny. My dog doesn't care. One time, though, we were dogsitting for some friends and their little dog was terrified of me dry firing to the point she started shaking. I ignored it, of course, and kept practicing, but it was interesting to note.

I shoot pretty straight with my 19 until I start getting sloppy, but the 43 is a different animal. It's like being a new Glock shooter all over again. I do pretty well with practice loads but those HST rounds group left for me right now. They're tight groups, but they're left. Gonna have to practice.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:03:32 PM EDT
I shoot dead on horizontally but pull left.

I press the trigger with the pad of my finger but found with Glock I shoot left unless I use the crease of my finger on the trigger.
I still pull slightly left using the crease but not as bad if I use the pad.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:12:14 PM EDT
If they weren't such a PITA to shoot it wouldn't take half a million dry fire reps and $4K worth of ammo a year to finally hit where you actually aim.

Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:36:41 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By samuse:


If they weren't such a PITA to shoot it wouldn't take half a million dry fire reps and $4K worth of ammo a year to finally hit where you actually aim.



View Quote
Lol

 
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:56:01 PM EDT
Have someone else load your pistol while you look away.  They can either chamber a round or not, then hand you the gun to fire.  Maintain proper sight picture and sight alignment but put full focus on your front sight.  If you push the gun at all it will be immediately apparent when you pull the trigger with no round chambered.  We call it "playing the game."
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:26:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FP2000H:


That's funny. My dog doesn't care. One time, though, we were dogsitting for some friends and their little dog was terrified of me dry firing to the point she started shaking. I ignored it, of course, and kept practicing, but it was interesting to note.

I shoot pretty straight with my 19 until I start getting sloppy, but the 43 is a different animal. It's like being a new Glock shooter all over again. I do pretty well with practice loads but those HST rounds group left for me right now. They're tight groups, but they're left. Gonna have to practice.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Originally Posted By FP2000H:
Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES:
Originally Posted By wtturn:
Originally Posted By zach_:
I had an RO tell me to quit squeezing my entire trigger hand when I shoot. Just squeeze the trigger, keep a steady grip with the supporting hand. It works for me. Bad habits are hard to break though.

If I dry fired 1300 + times every day, my wife would have my ass.
   That's calling milking the trigger.  A conscious decision to grip 100% with the support hand and isolate the trigger finger usually helps.


I can confirm that dry fire in volume may not go over well with the SO.  


Or your dog.... My dog trips out and get scared when I click anything on guns.


That's funny. My dog doesn't care. One time, though, we were dogsitting for some friends and their little dog was terrified of me dry firing to the point she started shaking. I ignored it, of course, and kept practicing, but it was interesting to note.

I shoot pretty straight with my 19 until I start getting sloppy, but the 43 is a different animal. It's like being a new Glock shooter all over again. I do pretty well with practice loads but those HST rounds group left for me right now. They're tight groups, but they're left. Gonna have to practice.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Only one of my dogs cares the other take the opportunity to either attempt to hump her while she is vulnerable or just ignores it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:38:29 PM EDT
Interesting
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:51:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By samuse:
If they weren't such a PITA to shoot it wouldn't take half a million dry fire reps and $4K worth of ammo a year to finally hit where you actually aim.

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Aint that the truth...
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:57:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By YEEEEEEHAW:
I shoot dead on horizontally but pull left.

I press the trigger with the pad of my finger but found with Glock I shoot left unless I use the crease of my finger on the trigger.
I still pull slightly left using the crease but not as bad if I use the pad.
View Quote

Yep.  Crease on the trigger safety and the dot on my point of aim fixed everything for me.  I qualified perfect tonight with most round in a six inch circle.

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Link Posted: 4/22/2016 6:13:27 AM EDT
I don't know why, but my Glock always hit right. (I'm right-handed.) I ended up drifting the sight left and now I hit the target much more consistently. It also shot into the stratosphere until I put a shorter rear sight on. Go figure.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:16:46 AM EDT


For me I had to get my fingers a little farther around the grip to be able to reach into the trigger a little deeper.  Now I'm using the first crease on my finger on the trigger instead of the pad and I shoot dead center.  My grip is actually more comfortable now and I have better control of the gun, I don't have to "re-grip" or adjust my support hand after every shot, or every other shot.  My hands don't move for the entire mag now.






Link Posted: 4/22/2016 11:07:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2016 11:10:10 AM EDT by xXGearheadXx]
I'll just throw a few things out there....

When you get your pistol, check your sights, off a rest, with the type of ammo you shoot.  Focus on pulling straight to the rear and check your POA vs POI.  If it is off, drift your rears and replace your fronts as necessary to get POA to be the same as POI.  

After that, if you pull left/right, you know it's you.  Adjust you, not the sights.  

glocks are pretty easy to pull due to the trigger shape being rounded with an extra nub that sticks out lending itself to be the perfect surface to push or pull your shots left or right, especially when you start adding speed into the mix.  Practice dry and live, is the only real way to overcome this.  

I find a flat faced trigger, like the agency, to be easier to pull straight back due to its shape and the fact the trigger safety sits flush when depressed (imagine trying to stand balanced on a flat surface vs a curved one and you'll get the idea).  If you're shooting competitions, it may or may not be legal depending on the division you shoot.  For a carry/defensive gun there's no reason outside cost to not use one.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 3:26:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2016 4:12:29 PM EDT by Marksman14]
I have a few Glocks that shoot left slightly off a rest, left handed shooters shooting them, etc.

There are some that shoot left.  That being said, most dont.  I have shot plenty of Glocks with centered sights that shoot straight as can be.

Oh, fun fact.  You can swap slide locks and it will impact POI as well.  Didn't believe it until it was suggested to me by numerous entities that see massive amounts of Glocks, so I put a machined one into two of mine that were impacting 3" to the left at 25, and it knocked the POI back to the right almost 2.5 inches for each of them.  Still a tick left, but tolerable.  Numerous shooters confirmed, most of them weren't told about the change in part either, every shooter had groupings move near center on the target at 25 where all of us, righties and lefties, were grouping 3-4 inches left at 25.  Might require .006 drift to the right now which isn't unreasonable to me.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 6:46:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I have a few Glocks that shoot left slightly off a rest, left handed shooters shooting them, etc.

There are some that shoot left.  That being said, most dont.  I have shot plenty of Glocks with centered sights that shoot straight as can be.

Oh, fun fact.  You can swap slide locks and it will impact POI as well.  Didn't believe it until it was suggested to me by numerous entities that see massive amounts of Glocks, so I put a machined one into two of mine that were impacting 3" to the left at 25, and it knocked the POI back to the right almost 2.5 inches for each of them.  Still a tick left, but tolerable.  Numerous shooters confirmed, most of them weren't told about the change in part either, every shooter had groupings move near center on the target at 25 where all of us, righties and lefties, were grouping 3-4 inches left at 25.  Might require .006 drift to the right now which isn't unreasonable to me.
View Quote


Wow, that's very interesting.... I've never heard that one.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 11:55:11 PM EDT
I mainly shoot Glocks and 1911s, no problem with shooting left. I do own other handguns that I like to shoot every once in a while for something different. Yesterday my one of my buddies wanted to do some shooting, I had already spent two of the last three days training so I decided I  would just do some plinking with some .22's. Then I remembered I had not shot my Sig P220 SA only in about a year, so I took it with me. First mag everything to the left, what the heck. I'm not training just standing there plinking and everything going left. It was my grip, not enough presser with my support hand. Corrected it and all was good. Never happens with my Glocks, Sig low and left for me I guess.
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