[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Open Carry? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/10/2014 5:21:49 AM EDT
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I am a TN resident and CCW holder. I conceal 95% of the time. TN is voting in a law saying anyone (not a felon) can open carry without a permit. Local Police chiefs are in the news saying crime rates will increase. What is the hives thoughts on the law change? I am reserving my opinions till a few reply. Thanks
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25207319/mixed-reactions-to-proposed-open-carry-gun-law-in-tennessee |
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WI had open carry decades before CC. Of all gun-toters, my completely anecdotal guess is 95% carry concealed. I don't encourage open carry myself, but of someone does it I have a hard time believing it increases crime. Bunch of fudd police chiefs who don't want to admit they can't always save the day.
ETA: oh, and in the 34 years I've lived in WI, i have seen one person open carrying (in person, not on the news just because he was OCing) and that was after the CC law passed a couple years ago. It's pretty rare. |
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Quoted:
I am a TN resident and CCW holder. I conceal 95% of the time. TN is voting in a law saying anyone (not a felon) can open carry without a permit. Local Police chiefs are in the news saying crime rates will increase. What is the hives thoughts on the law change? I am reserving my opinions till a few reply. Thanks http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25207319/mixed-reactions-to-proposed-open-carry-gun-law-in-tennessee Keebler, it has good and bad, my wife just called and asked me... |
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We have always had OC here in AZ. It never really caused any problems that I can see - it sounds like the local TN liberals are making whole lot of fuss about nothing. We always hear the same nonsense, wehther OC or CC... "blood in the streets", "fender benders will turn into gunfights" etc. etc. Never actually happens. Here in AZ you will see OC from time to time, but most of the general public are too unobservant to even notice. Mainly it is 18-20 year olds who are too young to CCW. The main benefit is to save CCW folks from being prosecuted because of inadvertent "flashing".
ETA: Just read the article. Joe Cochis sounds like a douche. We had a lot of those in AZ too when CCW was deregulated... they cared more about the $$ they make from CCW classes than they do about our 2A rights. Fuck those guys. |
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I am a TN resident and CCW holder. I conceal 95% of the time. TN is voting in a law saying anyone (not a felon) can open carry without a permit. Local Police chiefs are in the news saying crime rates will increase. What is the hives thoughts on the law change? I am reserving my opinions till a few reply. Thanks http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25207319/mixed-reactions-to-proposed-open-carry-gun-law-in-tennessee By the police chiefs logic all his officers should conceal carry then.....  Id like to know where his facts are coming from
Im from WI and as One of the posters say it was very common and nothing increased in violence except for Milwaukee but that is a total different topic Here in NM people OC, not as much compared to WI. But as for myself I see a drop of bums begging for money from me which counts for something. |
| I love the idea of the liberals "losing" one for a change. I just get tired of the queers and anti-gun freaks always getting the govt to side with them. I just figure this will get more businesses to post their property but concealed means concealed. Do you think this would mean legal to oc at 18 or 21? |
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I am a TN resident and CCW holder. I conceal 95% of the time. TN is voting in a law saying anyone (not a felon) can open carry without a permit. Local Police chiefs are in the news saying crime rates will increase. What is the hives thoughts on the law change? I am reserving my opinions till a few reply. Thanks http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25207319/mixed-reactions-to-proposed-open-carry-gun-law-in-tennessee There is really no way it will CAUSE crime. I live in a state where OC is legal and I've only even seen someone OCing twice in the 12 years I've lived here. I've also only seen people OC large belt knives about twice as well. Honestly, if I didn't have my CHL I would most likely illegally concealed carry before I would OC. Think about it, you "do the right (legal) thing" and OC only to have cops pull their guns on you and harrass you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVHrpScqHsg&index=4&list=FLxIzR1_csgDr_geyis8NqMg vs. you CC and nobody knows.  Unless you live somewhere where OC is VERY common I think MOST businesses would kick you out and/or call the cops.
When I see people OCing I general think they are in one of 3 groups: 1. Douch bag poser, either trying to look bad ass, or trying to look like a LEO. 2. Trying to make a political statement (I'm kinda OK with that) 3. Someone who honestly feels the need to carry protection and for some reason doesn't have a CHL and is honestly trying to be legal about it. (again, I'm OK with this, but feel sorry that they have to do this) I'm all for OC being legal and think it is a good stepping stone towards Vermont style CC and NO I don't think it will make crime rates go up. |
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Crime rates will not increase, obviously. Idaho has open carry without permit and you rarely see anyone do it in town. it's handy for the mountains though!
ETA: In Idaho you can concealed carry outside of city limits without a permit at 18 so long as you are engaged in just about any form of outdoor activity. |
I used to OC in Kentucky for years before they passed their CC law. Open carry legal since 1812 or 1814 IIRC and CC passed in the mid 1990s. During those years carried openly all over western KY and only was asked to leave it in the vehicle twice (paid admission events). I carried openly and concealed in Alaska when up there a few times depending on what I was doing and where, ie town or woodsroaming/hunting. Here in NC I occasionally OC still as I'm a very active outdoorsman and then run into town. Hard to conceal a 6.5" Blackhawk or 14" Contender.  Army had me OC most of the time anyway.
CD |
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Increase in crime?? No.
There are a million reasons that open carry is a very bad idea....in fact almost beyond bad......but that is not one of them.. The thought exists that in most personal defense scenarios, you will most likely be in very close quarters....like within 3 feet if you're lucky.....actually pushing and hitting prior to pulling your weapon. In such an event, if the criminal actually SEES your weapon on your hip open carried.....then you will either be immediately disarmed or will be fighting over your weapon..which is a very real concern.. Remember: 1/5 of all police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with their OWN service weapon.. Think about that... That fact alone is enough to shoot down all the open carry dumbass arguments. If you live in a state where concealed carry is legal.......conceal carry.....and forget all the Rambo crap. If open carry is your only option, then do what you have to do. I would sooner conceal carry and break the law than open carry and obey the law.. All political, constitutional and whatever principals aside.....I think it is a very bad tactic to employ. |
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All they libtards say the same thing. More blood in the streets, crime increase.... They said the same stuff about Alabama when we passed the new open carry stuff back in august. The idiots didnt even know that Open Carry was always legal and they just changed the wording in the books.
I do it. I see a lot of other people do it. No big deal down here. |
, But it does not hurt anyone aside from feelings. Gunfacts is where you should go and read up on it more. 
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Quoted:
I am a TN resident and CCW holder. I conceal 95% of the time. TN is voting in a law saying anyone (not a felon) can open carry without a permit. Local Police chiefs are in the news saying crime rates will increase. What is the hives thoughts on the law change? I am reserving my opinions till a few reply. Thanks http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25207319/mixed-reactions-to-proposed-open-carry-gun-law-in-tennessee Local police chiefs can get bent. They are only against it for 2 reasons. (1) They think only cops should carry guns. (2) They know at some point one of their under trained under, under qualified and under educated officers will wig out one day and shoot someone for no reason. Then they would end up getting sued and having the state and media up their ass about why their officers aren't trained well. There is no reason OC should be illegal. There is a time and place for everything. And sometimes it makes sense to CC and sometimes OC. Just my .02 cents, take it for what its worth. |
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Remember: 1/5 of all police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with their OWN service weapon.. Think about that... That fact alone is enough to shoot down all the open carry dumbass arguments. Quoted:
Remember: 1/5 of all police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with their OWN service weapon.. Think about that... That fact alone is enough to shoot down all the open carry dumbass arguments. Talk about dumbass... How about YOU think about it. How many of those 1/5 were just walking along minding their own business and were shot with their OWN service weapon? I'll help you, 0/5 were. Police are shot with their own weapons while they're trying to take an offender into custody, as they tend to dislike being in custody and will fight to prevent it. I've carried openly for 10 years in places like Tacoma WA (most crime infested city in the entire PNW) or Seattle, I've never had even the inkling of attempting to take a person into custody. If you live in a state where concealed carry is legal.......conceal carry.....and forget all the Rambo crap. If open carry is your only option, then do what you have to do. I would sooner conceal carry and break the law than open carry and obey the law. I have to ask, how often do YOU open carry? Have you ever done it? No? Yet somehow you're an expert and you know what's best for everyone. Rambo? EVERY study EVER done on the subject says violent criminals will avoid an encounter with an armed victim. So you think it's better to appear unarmed....why? So you can lure a robber in and be the hero with your concealed handgun? Yeah, that's an example of brilliance. All political, constitutional and whatever principals aside.....I think it is a very bad tactic to employ. Can you articulate why? I watched a guy who was intent on robbing me VERY quickly change his mind when he was surprised to see I was carrying openly. So let's look at it objectively; you have no experience with OC so at BEST you can only speculate. I have carried openly and concealed for a freaking decade now and none of the nonsense crap you predict has ever happened. Who is more credible? You with your thoughtless speculation, or me with actual experience? |
I see no benefit for open carry to conceal carry. I don't hold it against anyone but it kinda makes me go 
No one needs to know you have that gun. It isn't necessary and it is detrimental to your own safety. I have heard of guns getting snatched out of holsters by ppl open carrying... it causes you and everyone else more problems than it does good. It just seems silly and immature to me. If you are in your business or something like a pawn shop or gas station or whatever, by all means feel free to open carry but other than that no. It kinda reminds me of that guy open carrying in his neighborhood in Charlotte NC with a bolt action rifle, wearing armor that is loaded with magazines (obviously for a magazine fed weapon... not a bolt action) in calibers that don't even match the rifle. Be a grown up... be professional... conceal it and go about your business and let everyone else go about theirs. Sorry. I would be staunchly opposed to laws against open carry (like we have hear in SC) but i still don't want to see anyone doing it. |
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I see no benefit for open carry to conceal carry. I don't hold it against anyone but it kinda makes me go
No one needs to know you have that gun. It isn't necessary and it is detrimental to your own safety. I have heard of guns getting snatched out of holsters by ppl open carrying... it causes you and everyone else more problems than it does good. It just seems silly and immature to me. If you are in your business or something like a pawn shop or gas station or whatever, by all means feel free to open carry but other than that no. It kinda reminds me of that guy open carrying in his neighborhood in Charlotte NC with a bolt action rifle, wearing armor that is loaded with magazines (obviously for a magazine fed weapon... not a bolt action) in calibers that don't even match the rifle. Be a grown up... be professional... conceal it and go about your business and let everyone else go about theirs. Sorry. I would be staunchly opposed to laws against open carry (like we have hear in SC) but i still don't want to see anyone doing it. Can you provide any proof of peoples guns being pulled out of their holsters? If you can't then its nothing more hearsay. When you post wild claims like that without proof it makes you look like a dumb ass. |
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I was Open Carrying my 1911 tonight when the guy from the gas company came by to investigate a gas leak. He didn't bat an eye. I was also at a local e cigarette shop checking them out with my very liberal boss a few weeks ago. Guy working there had a full sized .45 he was pocket carrying. Handle just dangling out. My boss talked to him for about 45 minutes and never noticed the gun.
For the most part, people are clueless. If you are going about your business and doing nothing to attract attention to yourself, most people won't even notice the gun. |
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The local police chiefs are full of crap. Law abiding citizens being openly armed won't cause any crime and it might actually deter it instead. For everyone spouting about guns being taken out of holsters by other people, that's easy to fix. If someone OC's, they should use a holster like a Blackhawk Serpa that has a proper retention mechanism which prevents something like that from occurring. I could see it happening otherwise. Hopefully if people take advantage of the new law they'll carry with proper equipment.
To my mind, the worst thing about OC is the hassle. I've heard of people stopped by LEO's, freaking out people whose only experience with firearms is through Hollywood and of course being asked to leave by places with such policies. That's why I CC. I avoid all of that drama and can carry pretty much anywhere with no one else the wiser. |
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Can you provide any proof of peoples guns being pulled out of their holsters? If you can't then its nothing more hearsay. When you post wild claims like that without proof it makes you look like a dumb ass. Quoted:
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I see no benefit for open carry to conceal carry. I don't hold it against anyone but it kinda makes me go
No one needs to know you have that gun. It isn't necessary and it is detrimental to your own safety. I have heard of guns getting snatched out of holsters by ppl open carrying... it causes you and everyone else more problems than it does good. It just seems silly and immature to me. If you are in your business or something like a pawn shop or gas station or whatever, by all means feel free to open carry but other than that no. It kinda reminds me of that guy open carrying in his neighborhood in Charlotte NC with a bolt action rifle, wearing armor that is loaded with magazines (obviously for a magazine fed weapon... not a bolt action) in calibers that don't even match the rifle. Be a grown up... be professional... conceal it and go about your business and let everyone else go about theirs. Sorry. I would be staunchly opposed to laws against open carry (like we have hear in SC) but i still don't want to see anyone doing it. Can you provide any proof of peoples guns being pulled out of their holsters? If you can't then its nothing more hearsay. When you post wild claims like that without proof it makes you look like a dumb ass. http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/5972-man-open-carrying-robbed-his-gun.html http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_YUO4SzcY There are more and there are other articles I have seen that probably aren't as easy to find but I don't have time to dig them out right now. It also makes you look like a dumbass when you are too incompetent to type a few words in google |
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http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/5972-man-open-carrying-robbed-his-gun.html http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_YUO4SzcY There are more and there are other articles I have seen that probably aren't as easy to find but I don't have time to dig them out right now. It also makes you look like a dumbass when you are too incompetent to type a few words in google Quoted:
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I see no benefit for open carry to conceal carry. I don't hold it against anyone but it kinda makes me go
No one needs to know you have that gun. It isn't necessary and it is detrimental to your own safety. I have heard of guns getting snatched out of holsters by ppl open carrying... it causes you and everyone else more problems than it does good. It just seems silly and immature to me. If you are in your business or something like a pawn shop or gas station or whatever, by all means feel free to open carry but other than that no. It kinda reminds me of that guy open carrying in his neighborhood in Charlotte NC with a bolt action rifle, wearing armor that is loaded with magazines (obviously for a magazine fed weapon... not a bolt action) in calibers that don't even match the rifle. Be a grown up... be professional... conceal it and go about your business and let everyone else go about theirs. Sorry. I would be staunchly opposed to laws against open carry (like we have hear in SC) but i still don't want to see anyone doing it. Can you provide any proof of peoples guns being pulled out of their holsters? If you can't then its nothing more hearsay. When you post wild claims like that without proof it makes you look like a dumb ass. http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/5972-man-open-carrying-robbed-his-gun.html http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_YUO4SzcY There are more and there are other articles I have seen that probably aren't as easy to find but I don't have time to dig them out right now. It also makes you look like a dumbass when you are too incompetent to type a few words in google That guy was an idiot. He had no situational awareness. If he'd been CC'ing they would have still found his gun when they were taking his wallet. BTW you know what else makes someone look like a dumbass? Not knowing how to post a hot link. |
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That guy was an idiot. He had no situational awareness. If he'd been CC'ing they would have still found his gun when they were taking his wallet. BTW you know what else makes someone look like a dumbass? Not knowing how to post a hot link. Quoted:
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I see no benefit for open carry to conceal carry. I don't hold it against anyone but it kinda makes me go
No one needs to know you have that gun. It isn't necessary and it is detrimental to your own safety. I have heard of guns getting snatched out of holsters by ppl open carrying... it causes you and everyone else more problems than it does good. It just seems silly and immature to me. If you are in your business or something like a pawn shop or gas station or whatever, by all means feel free to open carry but other than that no. It kinda reminds me of that guy open carrying in his neighborhood in Charlotte NC with a bolt action rifle, wearing armor that is loaded with magazines (obviously for a magazine fed weapon... not a bolt action) in calibers that don't even match the rifle. Be a grown up... be professional... conceal it and go about your business and let everyone else go about theirs. Sorry. I would be staunchly opposed to laws against open carry (like we have hear in SC) but i still don't want to see anyone doing it. Can you provide any proof of peoples guns being pulled out of their holsters? If you can't then its nothing more hearsay. When you post wild claims like that without proof it makes you look like a dumb ass. http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/5972-man-open-carrying-robbed-his-gun.html http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_YUO4SzcY There are more and there are other articles I have seen that probably aren't as easy to find but I don't have time to dig them out right now. It also makes you look like a dumbass when you are too incompetent to type a few words in google That guy was an idiot. He had no situational awareness. If he'd been CC'ing they would have still found his gun when they were taking his wallet. BTW you know what else makes someone look like a dumbass? Not knowing how to post a hot link. I wasn't really that concerned about it... In class... On my phone... Wasn't really concerned. Keep doing what ur doing man. Conceal carry is my choice. Have a nice day |
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Only way it makes crime go up is if he sends his minions to investigate every complaint and they charge people for stupid offenses for the things they say, not co-operating, not showing ID if required, carrying to large a pocket knife concealed, and other such victimless crimes, the state uses to make life difficult on a whim. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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I would like to be able to open carry when I'm ridding my horse in the back country. In Florida you can if you are hunting or fishing or on the way to or from. I have known of people who keep a Pocket Fisherman with them to cover the legalities. It's kind of silly to have to do something like that to stay legal.
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Increase in crime?? No. There are a million reasons that open carry is a very bad idea....in fact almost beyond bad......but that is not one of them.. The thought exists that in most personal defense scenarios, you will most likely be in very close quarters....like within 3 feet if you're lucky.....actually pushing and hitting prior to pulling your weapon. In such an event, if the criminal actually SEES your weapon on your hip open carried.....then you will either be immediately disarmed or will be fighting over your weapon..which is a very real concern.. Remember: 1/5 of all police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with their OWN service weapon.. Think about that... That fact alone is enough to shoot down all the open carry dumbass arguments. If you live in a state where concealed carry is legal.......conceal carry.....and forget all the Rambo crap. If open carry is your only option, then do what you have to do. I would sooner conceal carry and break the law than open carry and obey the law.. All political, constitutional and whatever principals aside.....I think it is a very bad tactic to employ. Still peddling your anti-liberty agenda. Fact is, most LEO LODD's are traffic collisions. Stay alive-stay home! Situational awareness is key, however, an attacker will always have the tactical advantage. He has already committed to violence of action and you are joy riding on the OODA loop. |
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I am a TN resident and CCW holder. I conceal 95% of the time. TN is voting in a law saying anyone (not a felon) can open carry without a permit. Local Police chiefs are in the news saying crime rates will increase. What is the hives thoughts on the law change? I am reserving my opinions till a few reply. Thanks http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25207319/mixed-reactions-to-proposed-open-carry-gun-law-in-tennessee Part in red: Codswallop. Won't be any increase in crime. None. There won't be running gunfights in the street. No shootouts at the TN version of OK corral. Va is an Open Carry state, with state preemption of local laws. After the initial novelty wears off and people get used to the idea that it's perfectly normal for regular law-abiding citizens (i.e.the ones not driving around in cars that say "po-leece" on them) to open carry, nobody notices. Seriously. |
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Part in red: Codswallop. Won't be any increase in crime. None. There won't be running gunfights in the street. No shootouts at the TN version of OK corral. Va is an Open Carry state, with state preemption of local laws. After the initial novelty wears off and people get used to the idea that it's perfectly normal for regular law-abiding citizens (i.e.the ones not driving around in cars that say "po-leece" on them) to open carry, nobody notices. Seriously. Quoted:
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I am a TN resident and CCW holder. I conceal 95% of the time. TN is voting in a law saying anyone (not a felon) can open carry without a permit. Local Police chiefs are in the news saying crime rates will increase. What is the hives thoughts on the law change? I am reserving my opinions till a few reply. Thanks http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25207319/mixed-reactions-to-proposed-open-carry-gun-law-in-tennessee Part in red: Codswallop. Won't be any increase in crime. None. There won't be running gunfights in the street. No shootouts at the TN version of OK corral. Va is an Open Carry state, with state preemption of local laws. After the initial novelty wears off and people get used to the idea that it's perfectly normal for regular law-abiding citizens (i.e.the ones not driving around in cars that say "po-leece" on them) to open carry, nobody notices. Seriously. Yep. I've had lots of great conversations with open carry guys. Never had an issue with one. |
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Still peddling your anti-liberty agenda. Fact is, most LEO LODD's are traffic collisions. Stay alive-stay home! Situational awareness is key, however, an attacker will always have the tactical advantage. He has already committed to violence of action and you are joy riding on the OODA loop. Quoted:
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Increase in crime?? No. There are a million reasons that open carry is a very bad idea....in fact almost beyond bad......but that is not one of them.. The thought exists that in most personal defense scenarios, you will most likely be in very close quarters....like within 3 feet if you're lucky.....actually pushing and hitting prior to pulling your weapon. In such an event, if the criminal actually SEES your weapon on your hip open carried.....then you will either be immediately disarmed or will be fighting over your weapon..which is a very real concern.. Remember: 1/5 of all police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with their OWN service weapon.. Think about that... That fact alone is enough to shoot down all the open carry dumbass arguments. If you live in a state where concealed carry is legal.......conceal carry.....and forget all the Rambo crap. If open carry is your only option, then do what you have to do. I would sooner conceal carry and break the law than open carry and obey the law.. All political, constitutional and whatever principals aside.....I think it is a very bad tactic to employ. Still peddling your anti-liberty agenda. Fact is, most LEO LODD's are traffic collisions. Stay alive-stay home! Situational awareness is key, however, an attacker will always have the tactical advantage. He has already committed to violence of action and you are joy riding on the OODA loop. No.. Im not here to take anyones liberties away.....just yours.. I'll have both you and your boyfriend disarmed of your matching Bersas and in a Cambodian labor camp picking undigested pieces of corn out of Yak crap the first day I take over the world Zamipoo. Your presence is unwelcomed as always.. Yes, I should have said LEO's "murdered" not "killed". |
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Talk about dumbass... How about YOU think about it. How many of those 1/5 were just walking along minding their own business and were shot with their OWN service weapon? I'll help you, 0/5 were. Police are shot with their own weapons while they're trying to take an offender into custody, as they tend to dislike being in custody and will fight to prevent it. I've carried openly for 10 years in places like Tacoma WA (most crime infested city in the entire PNW) or Seattle, I've never had even the inkling of attempting to take a person into custody. I have to ask, how often do YOU open carry? Have you ever done it? No? Yet somehow you're an expert and you know what's best for everyone. Rambo? EVERY study EVER done on the subject says violent criminals will avoid an encounter with an armed victim. So you think it's better to appear unarmed....why? So you can lure a robber in and be the hero with your concealed handgun? Yeah, that's an example of brilliance. Can you articulate why? I watched a guy who was intent on robbing me VERY quickly change his mind when he was surprised to see I was carrying openly. So let's look at it objectively; you have no experience with OC so at BEST you can only speculate. I have carried openly and concealed for a freaking decade now and none of the nonsense crap you predict has ever happened. Who is more credible? You with your thoughtless speculation, or me with actual experience? Quoted:
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Remember: 1/5 of all police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with their OWN service weapon.. Think about that... That fact alone is enough to shoot down all the open carry dumbass arguments. Talk about dumbass... How about YOU think about it. How many of those 1/5 were just walking along minding their own business and were shot with their OWN service weapon? I'll help you, 0/5 were. Police are shot with their own weapons while they're trying to take an offender into custody, as they tend to dislike being in custody and will fight to prevent it. I've carried openly for 10 years in places like Tacoma WA (most crime infested city in the entire PNW) or Seattle, I've never had even the inkling of attempting to take a person into custody. If you live in a state where concealed carry is legal.......conceal carry.....and forget all the Rambo crap. If open carry is your only option, then do what you have to do. I would sooner conceal carry and break the law than open carry and obey the law. I have to ask, how often do YOU open carry? Have you ever done it? No? Yet somehow you're an expert and you know what's best for everyone. Rambo? EVERY study EVER done on the subject says violent criminals will avoid an encounter with an armed victim. So you think it's better to appear unarmed....why? So you can lure a robber in and be the hero with your concealed handgun? Yeah, that's an example of brilliance. All political, constitutional and whatever principals aside.....I think it is a very bad tactic to employ. Can you articulate why? I watched a guy who was intent on robbing me VERY quickly change his mind when he was surprised to see I was carrying openly. So let's look at it objectively; you have no experience with OC so at BEST you can only speculate. I have carried openly and concealed for a freaking decade now and none of the nonsense crap you predict has ever happened. Who is more credible? You with your thoughtless speculation, or me with actual experience? 1. The "taking someone into custody" scenario does not take the rest of the non-LEO world into account. Subsequent to a mugging, armed robbery, crime of opportunity, etc, etc, etc, if your weapon is out there like a Christmas tree ornament, the criminal will go for it. 2. Yes I have open carried. 3. Why is it a bad tactic? One; you're openly availing the weapon to an aggressor, positive retention holster nor not. Two; most people have horse blinders on, but it will in fact draw unnecessary attention to yourself as well as repel others that you may have benefitted from knowing. Open carry guys like being "that guy" so this may have no impact with you. Three; you're identifying yourself. Giving yourself away. You're not drawing in criminals by concealed carrying. That's a silly statement. If someone wants to victimize you they will, and have a much easier time of it if they can utilize your look at me I'm a big man open carry tactic to neutralize your open carry gun as their first action. If you find that you walk around in high crime areas from time to time, I would suggest that you not walk around in high crime areas from time to time. If concealed carry is legal in your state, that is the only way to fly. Open carry is just you trying to prove something. No big upside in relation to the downside especially if concealed carry is legal in your state. Be calm. Be cool. Be grown up. Be professional. Be discreet. |
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The "taking someone into custody" scenario does not take the rest of the non-LEO world into account. Subsequent to a mugging, armed robbery, crime of opportunity, etc, etc, etc, if your weapon is out there like a Christmas tree ornament, the criminal will go for it. Quoted:
The "taking someone into custody" scenario does not take the rest of the non-LEO world into account. Subsequent to a mugging, armed robbery, crime of opportunity, etc, etc, etc, if your weapon is out there like a Christmas tree ornament, the criminal will go for it. Taking into custody is the example you cited as evidence that OC was dangerous. Are you now abandoning that? Good, because it was pretty silly, as I pointed out. You now claim, above, that "the criminal will go for it" with the word 'will' representing an absolute. Sorry, you're wrong again. A real criminal saw mine and didn't go for it. In the decade I've been carrying openly I and the entire open carry community, as well as the critics, have been looking for examples of an open carrier being targeted for his sidearm, we've found three; of those three one was proven to be a complete fabrication, the other two are iffy at best. Either way, do you seriously limit yourself for super rare outlier events? Go ahead and lie and say you do. More people are killed by falling flower pots than having their openly carried sidearm taken- yet you don't wear a hardhat when you're out do you? No, and neither does anyone else. Why is it a bad tactic? One; you're openly availing the weapon to an aggressor, positive retention holster nor not. Two; most people have horse blinders on... So you apply this lack of SA to open carry only? If you were attempting to win the prize for most ridiculously stupid statement on an internet forum, that one would make a perfect entry. SA has absolutely nothing to do with how one carries. A concealed carrier can have horse blinders on every bit as easily. Open carry guys like being "that guy" .... your look at me I'm a big man open carry tactic ...Open carry is just you trying to prove something. Imparting a motive on the actions of people you've never even met is the epitome of stupid. I could just as easily impart a motive on your concealed carry- that you CC so that you can lure teenage boys to try to rob you so that you can whip out your gun and surprise them, and then touch them inappropriately. Kinda stupid hey? If you don't want to open carry, don't. You opinions are better kept to yourself as we wouldn't want someone with that lack of intellectual capacity to represent firearms owners regardless of how they carry. |
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Open carry is legal in Oregon and we don't have shoot outs in the streets. However in violation of the Oregon cinstitution, some cities and counties believe they have the right to bar open carry from their borders. I've lived here my whole life on the west side of the cascades and have only seen someone open carrying once. I have seen it a couple of times on the other side of the mountains though.
I carry concealed because it makes ME more comfortable. Keyword is me, its a personal thing. |
| Why are the guys that don't like to OC so authoritarian in their stance against it? We get it, you have this tactical advantage wet dream about surprising a criminal that sticks a gun in your face. OC and CC are constitutional and shouldn't be illegal and you shouldn't have to be licensed to do it. Its a personal choice. OC is illegal in FL unless you are hunting and fishing so I don't OC that much. If we can get OC legal again, I may not OC a lot but I would be much less concerned about making sure it stays concealed. |
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Why are the guys that don't like to OC so authoritarian in their stance against it? We get it, you have this tactical advantage wet dream about surprising a criminal that sticks a gun in your face. OC and CC are constitutional and shouldn't be illegal and you shouldn't have to be licensed to do it. Its a personal choice. OC is illegal in FL unless you are hunting and fishing so I don't OC that much. If we can get OC legal again, I may not OC a lot but I would be much less concerned about making sure it stays concealed. People get too worked up about how other people exercise their rights. If you're carrying legally, then who cares? 
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People get too worked up about how other people exercise their rights. If you're carrying legally, then who cares? Quoted:
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Why are the guys that don't like to OC so authoritarian in their stance against it? We get it, you have this tactical advantage wet dream about surprising a criminal that sticks a gun in your face. OC and CC are constitutional and shouldn't be illegal and you shouldn't have to be licensed to do it. Its a personal choice. OC is illegal in FL unless you are hunting and fishing so I don't OC that much. If we can get OC legal again, I may not OC a lot but I would be much less concerned about making sure it stays concealed. People get too worked up about how other people exercise their rights. If you're carrying legally, then who cares? If your carrying illegally, who cares. My care begins when people start threatening or harming others. Unlawful carry of a weapon is a victimless crime. |
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How convenient to find all of this here rather than having to go all the way over to general discussion.. I open carry frequently. Every time I go hiking in the woods. I don't open carry in town though I don't mind if others do. While New Mexico is an OC state, most of our police force here in Albuquerque are not well informed or terribly sophisticated. They will harass and generally do everything they can to treat you like a dangerous criminal if you OC. Isn't worth it. It's a case of rights being obviated by ignorance. So I CC because I don't want to deal with the cops or freaked out soccer moms. Also, there is a good tactical argument for CC. |
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If your carrying illegally, who cares. I do. We are a society of laws. We are also a society of perception. The more gun law violations there are (and some percentage carrying illegally will get caught) the harder it makes it on those of us that follow the laws to be able to exercise our gun rights. |
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Quoted:... Quoted:... . While New Mexico is an OC state, most of our police force here in Albuquerque are not well informed or terribly sophisticated. They will harass and generally do everything they can to treat you like a dangerous criminal if you OC. ... At what point is allowing this continue, unchallenged, enabling the PD to be so ill-informed and unsophisticated? Who's really responsible for those abuses by LE? 112 years ago in the Idaho courts, the Brickey decision was calling the practice of carrying concealed "pernicious", but had to be allowed,especially if OC wasn't (similar to Peruta vs San Diego, huh?). And continuing with CA, once they managed to outright ban OC, after having made getting permission to CC all but impossible for most, they effectively stripped away a right. Are you sure that it couldn't happen there, that certainly no one there is seeking to eliminate you carrying, either CC or OC? |
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Quoted:
While New Mexico is an OC state, most of our police force here in Albuquerque are not well informed or terribly sophisticated. They will harass and generally do everything they can to treat you like a dangerous criminal if you OC. Isn't worth it. It's a case of rights being obviated by ignorance. So I CC because I don't want to deal with the cops or freaked out soccer moms. Quoted:
While New Mexico is an OC state, most of our police force here in Albuquerque are not well informed or terribly sophisticated. They will harass and generally do everything they can to treat you like a dangerous criminal if you OC. Isn't worth it. It's a case of rights being obviated by ignorance. So I CC because I don't want to deal with the cops or freaked out soccer moms. Some police officers in Alamogordo yanked a guy out of the theater for open carry and he took them for a cool $21K. The most important part of that suit was that the judge determined the officers DIDN'T have qualified immunity as they should have known better. The police cannot detain a person for lawful behavior, that includes you. I suspect they're being better behaved now. Also, there is a good tactical argument for CC. I've been waiting years to hear one, but still haven't. Gun carry by honest citizens = good. It doesn't matter if you carry openly, concealed, or indifferently. |
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At what point is allowing this continue, unchallenged, enabling the PD to be so ill-informed and unsophisticated? Who's really responsible for those abuses by LE? 112 years ago in the Idaho courts, the Brickey decision was calling the practice of carrying concealed "pernicious", but had to be allowed,especially if OC wasn't (similar to Peruta vs San Diego, huh?). And continuing with CA, once they managed to outright ban OC, after having made getting permission to CC all but impossible for most, they effectively stripped away a right. Are you sure that it couldn't happen there, that certainly no one there is seeking to eliminate you carrying, either CC or OC? Quoted:
Quoted:... . While New Mexico is an OC state, most of our police force here in Albuquerque are not well informed or terribly sophisticated. They will harass and generally do everything they can to treat you like a dangerous criminal if you OC. ...
At what point is allowing this continue, unchallenged, enabling the PD to be so ill-informed and unsophisticated? Who's really responsible for those abuses by LE? 112 years ago in the Idaho courts, the Brickey decision was calling the practice of carrying concealed "pernicious", but had to be allowed,especially if OC wasn't (similar to Peruta vs San Diego, huh?). And continuing with CA, once they managed to outright ban OC, after having made getting permission to CC all but impossible for most, they effectively stripped away a right. Are you sure that it couldn't happen there, that certainly no one there is seeking to eliminate you carrying, either CC or OC? A very valid point. Brings up an interesting instance where 'civil obedience' helps educate and guide those who would oppress us. And you know.. 'oppress' is such an overused and hackneyed term, but it certainly fits. |
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Some police officers in Alamogordo yanked a guy out of the theater for open carry and he took them for a cool $21K. The most important part of that suit was that the judge determined the officers DIDN'T have qualified immunity as they should have known better. The police cannot detain a person for lawful behavior, that includes you. I suspect they're being better behaved now. I've been waiting years to hear one, but still haven't. Gun carry by honest citizens = good. It doesn't matter if you carry openly, concealed, or indifferently. Quoted:
Quoted:
While New Mexico is an OC state, most of our police force here in Albuquerque are not well informed or terribly sophisticated. They will harass and generally do everything they can to treat you like a dangerous criminal if you OC. Isn't worth it. It's a case of rights being obviated by ignorance. So I CC because I don't want to deal with the cops or freaked out soccer moms. Some police officers in Alamogordo yanked a guy out of the theater for open carry and he took them for a cool $21K. The most important part of that suit was that the judge determined the officers DIDN'T have qualified immunity as they should have known better. The police cannot detain a person for lawful behavior, that includes you. I suspect they're being better behaved now. Also, there is a good tactical argument for CC. I've been waiting years to hear one, but still haven't. Gun carry by honest citizens = good. It doesn't matter if you carry openly, concealed, or indifferently. No.. unfortunetately they are not better behaved now. A friend just posted his experience on facebook trying to take his 6.5 Grendel down to Sportsmans Warehouse for a new case. He rides a motorcycle and it was on his back. He was stopped 3 times and it took a supervisor coming out to call the dogs off. This happened last week. CC and tactical: I like looking harmless and not drawing attention to myself. I'm sure there are other valid points of view but this is what I choose to do. |
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If your carrying illegally, who cares. I do. We are a society of laws. We are also a society of perception. The more gun law violations there are (and some percentage carrying illegally will get caught) the harder it makes it on those of us that follow the laws to be able to exercise our gun rights. Hate to break it to you, the worst offenders are the government and the media. Again, a victimless crime is no crime. |
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No.. unfortunetately they are not better behaved now. A friend just posted his experience on facebook trying to take his 6.5 Grendel down to Sportsmans Warehouse for a new case. He rides a motorcycle and it was on his back. He was stopped 3 times and it took a supervisor coming out to call the dogs off. This happened last week. CC and tactical: I like looking harmless and not drawing attention to myself. I'm sure there are other valid points of view but this is what I choose to do. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
While New Mexico is an OC state, most of our police force here in Albuquerque are not well informed or terribly sophisticated. They will harass and generally do everything they can to treat you like a dangerous criminal if you OC. Isn't worth it. It's a case of rights being obviated by ignorance. So I CC because I don't want to deal with the cops or freaked out soccer moms. Some police officers in Alamogordo yanked a guy out of the theater for open carry and he took them for a cool $21K. The most important part of that suit was that the judge determined the officers DIDN'T have qualified immunity as they should have known better. The police cannot detain a person for lawful behavior, that includes you. I suspect they're being better behaved now. Also, there is a good tactical argument for CC. I've been waiting years to hear one, but still haven't. Gun carry by honest citizens = good. It doesn't matter if you carry openly, concealed, or indifferently. No.. unfortunetately they are not better behaved now. A friend just posted his experience on facebook trying to take his 6.5 Grendel down to Sportsmans Warehouse for a new case. He rides a motorcycle and it was on his back. He was stopped 3 times and it took a supervisor coming out to call the dogs off. This happened last week. CC and tactical: I like looking harmless and not drawing attention to myself. I'm sure there are other valid points of view but this is what I choose to do. That's because you're not thinking from a criminal perspective. Read some books on psychology of violent criminal minds and interviews with violent criminals. They like easy targets and don't want trouble. What I put in bold, to a criminal looks like easy pickings. If you CC and someone walks up and puts a gun in your face you've already lost. Sure he may not know you have it but at this point there's really nothing to do. If you allow 2 men to walk up behind your back and stick something against it(like the story another person posted). You've already lost and will continue to lose until you learn situational awareness. I was putting up some we buy houses signs at night for awhile in a bad part of town and dealt with some pretty weird people trying to come up to me. I literally turned and looked some dead in the eye and said, can I f'ing help you with something and they would immediately turn and go the other direction. Heck I even had a hooker trying to get in my car. Had been able to OC most of those people would have probably avoided me. |
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That's because you're not thinking from a criminal perspective. Read some books <snip>. I'm sure there are many different situations and many different outcomes. And criminal psychology is an interesting subject. The demographics of the criminal population is quite diverse. So is the criminal state of mind when committing violent crimes. Would make for an interesting read to see what methodologies the authors use to nail down behaviors relative to concealed versus open carry of potential victims. I did a search combining these topics in different ways and couldn't find anything. Odd. I'm sure you didn't just toss that out there without any basis whatsoever. Can you provide a pointer to the book(s) your referring to? I'm sure I'm not the only one in the forum who would like to see them. |
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Hate to break it to you, the worst offenders are the government and the media. Again, a victimless crime is no crime. Wow.. the government and media are illegally carrying firearms? Really? Who knew? As for illegal carry and victimless crime: If a felon carries a firearm is that victimless? If a driver with 3 DWI's and no license drives.. but he's sober and there is no wreck.. is that victimless? In a state with motorcycle helmet laws a kid rides without one, is that victimless? Some people think so but in none of those cases is that the case. When people carrying firearms illegally are in any sort of shooting or if they are caught where they shouldn't be (e.g. walking past a federal building, on campus, et al) or for whatever reason they are busted (and it does happen), the case for open carry and even concealed carry is diminished. Just follow the law. You are not above the law. We are all impacted when you don't. |
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I'll debate the tactical merits of OC vs CC just like some debate the effectiveness of 9mm vs 45 acp but by opposing or not fighting for OC those in the debate are volunteering to keeping a ban on 9mm and 45 acp ammo to win the argument. Some gun owners think those who OC are attention whores or worse and have forgotten the constitution protects the rights of attention whores and worse and it's liberal bigotry to suppress their rights. I currently live in a state, having moved from TX last year, where there is unlicensed OC of handguns and rifles. Let me tell you the reality of living in an unlicensed OC state is more peaceful than you'd imagine. |
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Wow.. the government and media are illegally carrying firearms? Really? Who knew? As for illegal carry and victimless crime: If a felon carries a firearm is that victimless? If a driver with 3 DWI's and no license drives.. but he's sober and there is no wreck.. is that victimless? In a state with motorcycle helmet laws a kid rides without one, is that victimless? Some people think so but in none of those cases is that the case. When people carrying firearms illegally are in any sort of shooting or if they are caught where they shouldn't be (e.g. walking past a federal building, on campus, et al) or for whatever reason they are busted (and it does happen), the case for open carry and even concealed carry is diminished. Just follow the law. You are not above the law. We are all impacted when you don't. Quoted:
Quoted:
Hate to break it to you, the worst offenders are the government and the media. Again, a victimless crime is no crime. Wow.. the government and media are illegally carrying firearms? Really? Who knew? As for illegal carry and victimless crime: If a felon carries a firearm is that victimless? If a driver with 3 DWI's and no license drives.. but he's sober and there is no wreck.. is that victimless? In a state with motorcycle helmet laws a kid rides without one, is that victimless? Some people think so but in none of those cases is that the case. When people carrying firearms illegally are in any sort of shooting or if they are caught where they shouldn't be (e.g. walking past a federal building, on campus, et al) or for whatever reason they are busted (and it does happen), the case for open carry and even concealed carry is diminished. Just follow the law. You are not above the law. We are all impacted when you don't. Wow, talk about a victimization mindset! YES, the Federal Government violates more gun laws than any group of citizens. Fast and Furious ring a bell???
And with members of the media like David Gregory going unprosecuted while members of the public are, and that the media does not speak up about it tells you all you need to know. We are not above the law, BUT THE LAW IS NOT ABOVE THE CONSTITUTION!! Unconstitutional laws have no need to be obeyed. Each man does this at his own risk, but NONE have the right to insult him for it. We each draw our own line... we each pay the price for our own decisions. |
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Wow.. the government and media are illegally carrying firearms? Really? Who knew? As for illegal carry and victimless crime: If a felon carries a firearm is that victimless?>>>>>YES------ If a driver with 3 DWI's and no license drives.. but he's sober and there is no wreck.. is that victimless?>>>>>YES----- In a state with motorcycle helmet laws a kid rides without one, is that victimless?>>>>>YES----- Some people think so but in none of those cases is that the case. 
When people carrying firearms illegally are in any sort of shooting or if they are caught where they shouldn't be (e.g. walking past a federal building, on campus, et al) or for whatever reason they are busted (and it does happen), the case for open carry and even concealed carry is diminished. Just follow the law. You are not above the law. We are all impacted when you don't. Quoted:
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Hate to break it to you, the worst offenders are the government and the media. Again, a victimless crime is no crime. Wow.. the government and media are illegally carrying firearms? Really? Who knew? As for illegal carry and victimless crime: If a felon carries a firearm is that victimless?>>>>>YES------ If a driver with 3 DWI's and no license drives.. but he's sober and there is no wreck.. is that victimless?>>>>>YES----- In a state with motorcycle helmet laws a kid rides without one, is that victimless?>>>>>YES----- Some people think so but in none of those cases is that the case.
When people carrying firearms illegally are in any sort of shooting or if they are caught where they shouldn't be (e.g. walking past a federal building, on campus, et al) or for whatever reason they are busted (and it does happen), the case for open carry and even concealed carry is diminished. Just follow the law. You are not above the law. We are all impacted when you don't.
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: .. When people carrying firearms illegally are in any sort of shooting or if they are caught where they shouldn't be (e.g. walking past a federal building, on campus, et al) or for whatever reason they are busted (and it does happen), the case for open carry and even concealed carry is diminished. Just follow the law. You are not above the law. We are all impacted when you don't. Ummmm...Spooks, The activism for OC started because LE was/is harassing people for following their respective state and local laws regarding what constitutes the legal carriage of firearms, either through ignorance of the law, or out of arrogance. It is akin to be stopped for driving your car on a public road. |
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Ummmm...Spooks, The activism for OC started because LE was/is harassing people for following their respective state and local laws regarding what constitutes the legal carriage of firearms, either through ignorance of the law, or out of arrogance. It is akin to be stopped for driving your car on a public road. Quoted:
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Quoted: ..
When people carrying firearms illegally are in any sort of shooting or if they are caught where they shouldn't be (e.g. walking past a federal building, on campus, et al) or for whatever reason they are busted (and it does happen), the case for open carry and even concealed carry is diminished. Just follow the law. You are not above the law. We are all impacted when you don't.
Ummmm...Spooks, The activism for OC started because LE was/is harassing people for following their respective state and local laws regarding what constitutes the legal carriage of firearms, either through ignorance of the law, or out of arrogance. It is akin to be stopped for driving your car on a public road. Gunny, I'm totally in favor of all forms of legal carry. I'm also in favor of changing laws so folks can carry when and where they wish to. What I'm opposed to is breaking the law and that includes carrying a firearm when it is actually illegal to do so. That's not going to help anybody though I admit some of the laws are aggravating (like no carry on campus). OC carry for those allowed to own a firearm in my state is not illegal in most places and people should not be harassed for it. To me that hard part is how involved to get. In one way I would like to put up with some harassment to help educate people and that cops reminding them that OC is legal, not a big deal, and should not concern them. On the other hand not sure I'm willing to take independent and unilateral action. And on the other other hand, it does seem to scare every day people which isn't something I want to do. If someone in my town organizes one of those open carry coffees.. I think I'll go. Heading out lone ranger.. probably not. |