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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 7/8/2003 9:48:58 PM EDT
I am looking at purchasing a new pistol. I have decided on .45 caliber, and have narrowed my selection to three guns:
1. Some 1911 variant; kimber, Springfield, etc..
2. H&K USP Tactical or USP 45
3. Sig P220

I have never shot any of these weapons before, and would like some advice. I was able to find a friend of a friend who owns the USP 40 and SigPro 40, and am going to fire these guns this Saturday along with a Colt 1911. I know its not the caliber I'll be buying but its as close as I can find. The gun will be general purpose, hiking, target shooting, and home defense. I am not concerned with concealed carry. I was hoping to hear anyone's opinion who has actually shot a few or all of these guns. Thanks in advance.

Jason
Link Posted: 7/8/2003 11:21:37 PM EDT
I've owned all that you listed. All are good quality guns so you won't get burned regardless of wht you pick. There's some operating differences that might help your decision.

The P-220 has no safety & is a full size gun. My P-220 accuracy was less than desireable, I sold it off.

The 1911 has been around for 100 years, there's a reason for that.

Most brands will give good performance: Kimber, Springfield Armory, Colt.

Avoid Llama, Auto Ordnance & Charles Daly.

The H&K will be THE most accurate pistol you list. Mine is a .45acp compact, damn good gun.

The H&K allows both "cocked & locked" carry as well as TDA, best of both worlds.

I've seen lemons on virtually all brands but never H&K.

Their compact seems to balance better for me than their full size models.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 4:54:09 AM EDT
I, too, have owned and shot extensively all of these guns...and still own one or more of each. My hands-down favorite is the 1911, and for an out-of-the-box gun I would probably look very hard at a Springfield Loaded model. The only stock, unaltered 1911 I own is a Series I Kimber Pro Carry, and it has been perfect, but I do not care for the new "lawsuit" models now being sold. Chuck the factory mags and buy sone Wilson 7rd.'ers and the 1911 will be good to go.

The H&K is an excellent gun and absolutely ready to go right out of the box. I find that the "compact" is not very compact at all, and much prefer the full sized model. Try the LEM trigger module if you have a chance...it really is as good as they say. I have several 12 rounders for mine and it can damn sure shoot, but I am not as accurate with it as with an accurized 1911. Almost certainly it will be the most reliable of the three in completely unaltered form. Tough as nails, too.

The 220's that I have seen are all extremely accurate with good ammo. Not to slam Bob, because I'm sure they have let a few out that may not do so well, I can say that I have owned and worked with officers who carried, over 70 different 220's in .45 over many years and I have never seen one that was not more accurate that a stock Colt Gold Cup...and that includes my 1959-60 built Colt National Match. I have seen a few that were problematical for the "occasional" shooter (which really is what most LEO's are) because of the relatively high bore line and light weight, but this is easily resolved with some training and more practice.

Bottom line is you won't go wrong with any of the three. Beware that many 1911 fans...such as myself...tend to equate worked-over, accurized 1911's to box-stock models of different pistols. That is simply not fair since you can easily buy 2-3 of the other two pistols for what we often have invested in a single 1911.

Link Posted: 7/9/2003 4:58:52 AM EDT
Get the one that fits your hand best, and you can shoot the most accurately. All three pistols you listed are fine any would be a good choice. The best choice of course is the get them all.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 6:36:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2003 9:30:56 AM EDT by Dog1]
Don't over-look the Beretta Cougar 8045. Excellent feel, 100% reliablity, low recoil.

8 rounds, double/single action, slide mounted safety, 3 dot sights.

I can shoot about 1" to 1" and 1/2 groups at 25 yards depending on ammo....

I have owned all three, and I would rate them-

1.P220, IMO the best overall fullsize. Great ergos, 100% reliablity, superb accuracy.

2. Springfield, Colt, Kimber-All great guns, except-many 1911's need tweaking, ie: throat and polishing to get them to feed all types of ammo. Many lower end Colts and Springfields need this to feed some types of hollowpoint and semi-wad cutters, unless you pick a hollowpoint that has a profile like a FMJ's...

3. The USP's are great guns, but for most people very hard to carry. The Compacts are smaller, but still a bit bulky.

Again, my opinion...choose the best for you..
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 7:15:36 AM EDT
M4Fanatic, I own a Kimber Compact Custom, Springfield Arms 1911 loaded, Sig P220 but I have never owned or shot a H&K USP Tactical or USP 45. Why? They are large pistols and just don't feel right to me. If my name were M4Fanatic I would rent and fire as many of my choices as possible. I would then buy the weapon that felt best in my hand and shot best for me. Regards, Richard:D
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 10:39:35 AM EDT
Hmmmm...Of the handguns listed, I have only experince with the SA 1911, and mine's the 1911A1, bottom of the line. The only mod I have on it is a full-length guide rod, and personally, this thing ALREADY shoots so good I'd be hard pressed to spend the money for a Kimber or loaded SA. Maybe I got a "gem" instead of a "lemon", but this thing is a SHOOTER. And cost a hell of a lot less than the other "top shelf" models.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 2:44:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2003 2:45:31 PM EDT by thedr13]
Hello,
All of the others who replied here are right on.
I just want to add in my two cents. I own one of the Springfield Armory "Fully Loaded" 1911A1 in Stainless steel.

By far, it is the most accurate 1911 I've ever shot or owned. Go to the Springfield site and look at this gun. The only thing I changed on this gun is the grips. The wood grips on mine were checkered and were a bit too sharp to the hand.
Other top name .45's are excellent guns.
I would recomend this gun highly.
This was more like a nickels worth of opinion.
thedr
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 3:57:56 PM EDT
Thanks everyone. Just to clerify. What I originally did was put together a large list of pistols that had a good reputation, were in frequent use, and yes I admit it, that looked "cool". I then went down to my local gunshop and was able to finger f**k every gun on the list for a good hour(exception: SA Hi-Cap), thanks to the dealer. I checked them mainly for how they fit my hand. Of that large list, three remained, which is now the current list. I have now been able to secure these guns to take to the range this Saturday, and will put at least 50 rounds through each.

If anyone has shot the Springfield Arm. Hi-Cap, can you tell me if the handle is much thicker than the standard? And if anyone has shot both the USP 40 and 45, is there a significant difference in performance? Can I get a good idea of how the 45 will shoot by shooting the 40? Thanks again.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 10:40:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ikor:
Not to slam Bob,



Hell, why should you be different than everyone else in here?
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 10:44:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
this thing ALREADY shoots so good I'd be hard pressed to spend the money for a Kimber or loaded SA.



If you were to junk that POS two-piece barrel & put in a good barrel, you'd wet your pants.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 10:48:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Fanatic:
If anyone has shot the Springfield Arm. Hi-Cap, can you tell me if the handle is much thicker than the standard? And if anyone has shot both the USP 40 and 45, is there a significant difference in performance? Can I get a good idea of how the 45 will shoot by shooting the 40? Thanks again.




Yes, the hi-cap is much thinker than the single stack version. Not to mention fully loaded, it'll weigh a ton & probably pull your pants down.

The recoil difference between the .40 & .45 will be noticeable, IMO. The .40 has a lot higher chamber pressure & has a "sharper" zip to its recoil. The .45 is a bit milder "push" as its pressures rise & fall much slower.

Ammo choice will also make a bit of difference in recoil as well.

After you shoot those guns, go with your initial instinct. That's usually the right one.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 10:50:29 PM EDT
If you like single actions, have experience carrying them cocked and locked and don't feel uncomfortable doing so, I'd look for a Series 70 Colt and send it off to a quality gunsmith and have the custom features I want added. For me this would be a reliability package, dehorn job, add a durable finish, lower and flare the ejection port, trigger job and perhaps add a match barrel such as Kart or Bar-Sto if accuracy was dismal with the current barrel or if heavily worn.

If you don't feel comfortable with cocked and locked carry or if you dislike the idea of modifying the pistol from stock form I'd go with the H&K USP. You'll save money in the end and have a stock gun that's pretty much on par with a custom 1911 in terms of performance. It's just all up to the user. Some people prefer single actions and like customizing them to their standards while others prefer double actions outta the box that work great. Me, I like both. But if I were to be practical I would say get the USP.

Some Sig pistols I like better than others. For me I find the P226, P228 and P229 my favorites. It seems that you will run into more lemons with the Sig P220 than any other model they have. Sig's also have a reputation for needing trigger (and other) springs updated frequently if shot often. Otherwise they seem to be fine guns. I own a P229 in .40 cal and love it.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 6:54:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By ikor:
Not to slam Bob,



Hell, why should you be different than everyone else in here?




Link Posted: 7/10/2003 3:43:48 PM EDT
All the guns listed are good stuff, like many before me I have fired all the guns you list.

The H&K Tactical is a high performance version of the USP series...a hybrid between the USP and the SOCOM adopted by our US military special forces a decade ago. My H&K USP Tactical is one of my all time favorite weapons.
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