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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/29/2002 4:28:08 PM EST
I have recently aquired a Glock 20 which is chambered for the 10MM Auto cartridge. Boy, I have really been mising the boat. And so have you if you are in to handguns at all and have never fired a 10MM.

I chose the Glock 20 because frankly, I really like the Glock pistol line, but more importantly, I wanted a new gun not a used Delta Elite or some other used up small frame gun not really built to take the power of what a 10mm is capable of delivering. The Glock 20 was specifically designed for the heaviest of the heavy 10mm loads. The slide and frame were specifically built around this round. The the G21 which is .45ACP is built on the same frame and the slide for the 21 is basically the same but it has been milled down and lightened. Basically the G20 is the heaviest(weight wise) gun that Glock makes.

Guys, if you've never shot full power loads in 10mm auto, you really should try one. I'm talking about loads that meet or exceed the original Norma(they designed the original cartridge) specs of a 200 grain bullet at 1200 fps velocity. This is a round that delivers 639 foot pounds of energy folks. You are into .41 magnum ballistics at this point, out of a gun that can hold not 6 rounds, but 15 rounds. Original specs for 170grain bullet was 1350fps. 687ft lbs.

For those who don't know, Energy or Kenetic Energy is not measured by any device. It is figured using a formula. That formula is: velocity squared / 450400 X bullet weight(in grains) So for the Norma spec round 1200x1200/450400X200 = 639.4316163 or 639 ft lbs.

That definetly makes for good self defence. It exceeds anything that the .45ACP can do in any loading. It makes the 10mm viable for hunting deer sized critters or smaller.

Link Posted: 7/29/2002 4:29:04 PM EST
Continued.........

I have been working up hand loads for my Glock 20 and have been able to duplicate and exceed the original factroy spec. rounds. I have pushed 180 grain bullets to about 1400fps 783ft lbs. with a couple of different hand loads.

The potential for the round is there. I believe it has not been widely accepted because gun writters who by and large are devoted to the .45ACP have been trashing the round every chance they get for the past 15 years. Between that and a few poorly designed guns that could not take the high pressures of the 10mm, Colt Delta Elite comes to mind(they had frame issues, cracking etc..), the 10 mm has gotten a bad rap.

Now if you want to compare the 10mm to the .45ACP...well, there really is very little comparison. The 10mm will beat the .45 in almost every catagory...except one. If you shoot a .45 FMJ the hole made will always be bigger than one from a 10MM FMJ which is .40 However on velocities and energy levels the 10MM beats the .45 every time. There is not a 45 around that can come close to 1400 fps and 780 ft lbs of energy. Even a super hot corbon .45ACP 165 grain loading only reaches 1250 fps and 577 ft lbs There are more than a few factory 10MM loads out there that equal or exceed those levels. Namely Corbon, Texas Ammo Co., Geogria Arms, Pro Load etc....

Here is a great article about the 10mm with all the comparisons from a guy who actually shot all the different loads and chronographed them. http://www.greent.com/40Page/index2.htm

Anyway, I know there will always be diehards as far as calibers go whether it's .45, 9mm, .40SW or whatever. But if you have never tried a 10MM, try to find somebody who has one and shoot it. A lot has been written about the fierce recoil but really, on this Glock frame, recoil is not that bad and it is certainly not uncontrolable. The hottest loads I can muster recoil about like full power .45ACp loads on a typical 1911 frame. So if you can handle a 45, the 10mm will be about the same.

15 rounds of 10MM ammo in the G20......devistating firepower
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 4:50:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 6:03:57 AM EST
I LOVE my delta
Link Posted: 8/4/2002 2:58:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/5/2002 7:45:13 AM EST by 428CJ]
First off I agree with you on the 10mm round. But your comment about the Delta frame is wrong! I have a Delta that's has about 60,000 rounds through it and it still going strong. If you would a bother to check the pressure spike of 10mm&45ACP you will fine the 10mm is a lot faster then the 45ACP and that's what saves the frame. At first Colt crack frames but after they notch it, No more trouble.I hope your Glock 20 is still shooting after 60,000 rounds and still has sweet trigger & as accurate as my Delta 10mm.Out side of a shotgun the 10mm&45 ACP are the best defence loads,but you shoot where you aim at.Boy I am long winded.
Link Posted: 8/4/2002 4:34:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/4/2002 5:15:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 6:43:30 AM EST
forget the glock and buy the new Dan Wesson Pointman....match barrel, bushing, McCormick match trigger.....it's a little expensive compared to the Glock, but, it's going for $725 here........my next handgun........
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:56:14 PM EST
10mm isn't underrated, its underused.

Lots of people are afraid of it because it IS so powerful.

Then again, lots of people are afraid of .45ACP and consider it a "hard kicking" cartridge.

Go figure.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 11:05:10 AM EST
I don't really think the 10mm is a very useful cartridge in most people's hands. It is very fun to shoot but a bit too large for a gunfight and a bit too small for hunting. You may be wondering what I mean by too large for gunfighting, let me explain. You want to shoot the most powerful cartridge than you can accurately and quickly put down range. Most people simply can't shoot a 10mm very quickly and still hit the target. While the 10mm trumps 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP in power, some one using the weaker cartridge is going to be more effective because they can deliver the lead 1.5 to 2 times as fast as can be done accurately with a 10mm. I'm speaking generally, some people can use it effectively, but most people are like me and are better served by a 40 or 45.

With that said, I love shooting 44 magnums for fun.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 11:25:15 AM EST
Sure has been a lot of talk about 10mm lately. Do I smell I comeback? I wish. Where's McUZI?

I like stepping up to the line with my 10mm when everyone else is popping away with their 9mm and even .40 S&W's. Heads turn when you let loose a few hand loads. Starting to get a little competition from the .357 Sig, though. Man, that round is LOUD!!
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 12:39:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 1:43:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 1:49:01 PM EST by Hk45USP]
I love the Glock 20 in 10mm. The problem and why the .45ACP is a better load for defense is this: The 10mm's tend to exit human bodies. That's bad for two reasons:

1) The expended round expells all that WASTED energy out the back of a human being. Humans tend to "go down" faster by having the energy "dump" within a human body cavity. The "hydrostatic shock" caused by the bigger diameter bullet of a .45 generally remains within the body cavity, unlike a 10mm where it goes so fast that it exits and thus the hard hitting energy is "wasted". The .45ACP with a bigger diameter bullet does such a wonderful job (as far as handguns are concerned) that the gun doesn't need any more "power" like the 10mm can deliver. The 10mm's energy is a "waste" on humans and actually a disadvantage. Why do you think the FBI dumped the 10mm and had S&W and the ammo industry come out with a reduced power 10mm, called the .40S&W????? The .40 was designed to stay within a human being and was hoped that it wouldn't have a tendency to exit via a secondary hole in a human. Unfortunately, the .40 has a tendency to exit more than a .45ACP also, but lesser in frequency than the 10mm's.

2) In a defense or especially LEO application, a 10mm bullet that exits a human body, has the great possiblity to strick an innocent bystander. That would cost the LE department some big big bucks in liability. The 10mm exits human bodies with greater frequency even with the best HP rounds, as compared to a .45ACP with a HP round.

So with all that said and done, yes the 10mm is AWESOME and more powerful than a .45ACP. But...that's doesn't mean it is a better defensive/offensive bullet when used agains human beings. It's actually a poorer stopper statistically. Just look up the books by Marshall/Sanow regarding "Handgun Stopping Power" (all 3 volumes). You'll see that the best .45ACP load beats the best 10mm load on actual documented shootings.

As far as on maybe bigger animals than humans...I've used the 10mm on a black bear and some wild boars. It worked great. I would never try those same shots with any .45ACP load.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 1:54:59 PM EST
This is all at what distance?.....[:\]
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 1:56:25 PM EST
How many rounds on the black bear.....and how many rounds on the pig?????.....[:\]
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 2:02:29 PM EST
I could blow quick 3-round bursts into the kill area of a human-sized target with my neighbors S&W 10mm automatic.
I love the .357 SIG cartridge. Talk about echo!
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 9:40:34 AM EST
I think the 10mm deserves more attention now that handgun designs have made pretty good advances. I know a different spring arrangement on my 1006 would probably help controllability quite a bit. It may not be best suited, however, to the trend toward smaller, lighter guns. Of course, I am certainly no expert.
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 8:16:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
I think the 10mm deserves more attention now that handgun designs have made pretty good advances. I know a different spring arrangement on my 1006 would probably help controllability quite a bit. It may not be best suited, however, to the trend toward smaller, lighter guns. Of course, I am certainly no expert.



It is kind of difficult to consume that much powder in a 3" barrel. I bet they put out quite a fireball from a Officers length barrel.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 12:20:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2002 12:24:12 PM EST by McUZI]
Don't think that just because you concluded your post with this...


With that said, I love shooting 44 magnums for fun.


...that it somehow negates the gayness of this...



Most people simply can't shoot a 10mm very quickly and still hit the target.



I shoot mine fine.
Because I practice with them.
A lot.

The 10 isn't a round for women and children.
Any good 10MM fan knows that the .40 S&W is a more appropriate sized lifeboat for them.

Link Posted: 8/8/2002 12:42:27 PM EST
McUZI, check your IM.
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