User Panel
Posted: 2/3/2006 6:41:18 AM EDT
I've been carrying my USP Compact .45, with 8+1 in the gun and another 8 round magazine. Does this seem like an adequate loadout? How many mags do you 1911 guys carry? (Same capacity and caliber)
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The key is to have 2 different mags in case one has a failure. You have that covered.
It seems like 17 rounds should be enough to get the job done. |
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Stats and "normal" go out the window when you have to draw your ccw. Yes damn near all gun fights are less than 3 rounds and like 7 feet or some such shit. Guess what, damn near all of us who carry CCW will NEVER have to draw it. So fuck stats. I carry a Glock22, 15 in the mag one in the pipe and 2 more on my hip. Thats 46 rounds. That and I train like I'm going to war tommorrow. God forbid I ever have to use what I carry and train for, because even if I kill him before he gets a round off and save everyone and don't kill or harm any bystanders, not only is it gonna mess me up, but it could be videotaped and a textbook good shoot and I'll still get sued by someone.
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Nonsense. When you draw your CCW you will always be a part of the stats. Whether you fit within the normal range or not will be decided by a number of factors. Everyone makes their decisions based on what they expect, which is determined by the stats and what is normal. How accurately one makes that decision or how far from the normal one wishes to consider might be open for discussion, but you can't prepare for everything. |
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+1 I carry a higher-capacity firearm for my primary CCW now, but when I made the switch (from a compact .45, FWIW) I knew full well that it didn't relieve me of the need for at least one extra magazine on me, just in case (regardles of total round count ). |
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I always carry at least one extra mag, giving me a total of 31 rounds. But I use that pussy 9mm stuff...
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+1,000 I carry at least 35 rounds in two mags for my primary and a BUG. |
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Yes. |
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I say a big MINUS 1 to all the guys who are advocating packing a large ammount of ammo. If you get into a situation where you discharge that kind of round count, YOU have a major problem, and it doesn't involve any sort of attack on you. You were either:
A) in a place you NEVER should have been in the first place, and will most likely NOT shoot your way out of. There is a good chance that even if you DO get out of there, you will at least see some time in court for not retreating when you had the opportunity (even in FL). CCW is not a license to cruise the ghetto at 2am. B) have discharged VASTLY more ammo than was reasonable expected, and you will most likely be doing time in prison as a result, and wont need to worry about how much ammo to carry, because you will NEVER own a gun again. If you are ever in a real no shit self defense situation, and you need to reload (because you expended your magazine, regardless of capacity) you will most likely fall into either category A or B- and neither ends up going well for you I carry my pistol with ONE mag loaded to its standard capacity. I keep my guns and mags well maintained and fire them regularly to ensure that they will work properly. I strongly believe that this is all that is necessary. |
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Go ahead and carry an amount of ammo you deem politically correct. That sounds like a great idea. |
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I carry a 1911 w/ two spare mags and a J-frame with a spare speed strip of six rounds for a total of 36, and I wonder sometimes if that is enough.(Even though I know it probably is)
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Your advice is terrible. Please keep it to yourself. If I ever have what you so lightly term a "major problem," I'd rather respond with ammunition from my third maagazine and explain that to the cops than have the cops explain why I'm dead to my faamily. Seems like a no brainer. Do this shit right or don't do it at all. If you aren't carrying 2+ mags, you aren't serious. |
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I would pprobably have to say go with what you feel comfortable with. But, if you need more than that amount of ammo (god forbid) and you shoot that last round think of how silly you'd feel about posting on here that you only needed x amount of ammo! :P
<---Trying to lighten up the conversation. I've been carrying 8+1 w/ extra 8. However I think I'm going to bump that up to another spare mag myself. |
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Cary the extra mag always. I also always have a spare box of 50 ball rounds in the car. Heay ya never know.
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I am having a great deal of difficulty responding to your post without calling into question your intelligence or lack there of. I feel that the information you have posted is not only inaccurate, but faulty, deceitful, ambiguous, lacking in facts, and down right dangerous. |
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Let me put it this way: your CCW is a strictly DEFENSIVE weapon. That means that you draw it to DEFEND yourself long enough to terminate the threat situation to you as fast as possible. If that means shooting a BG who means you harm, so be it. It DOES NOT mean to stick around and shoot it out with 10 BG's until they are all dead/gone. Just because you have a CCW does not make you Dirty Harry. If you have reasonable means of escape from a threat situation, you need to take it. "Shooting it out" is far more dangerous for you and everyone else.
I question those who bring tons of ammo around every day: do you also wear your tinfoil hat "just in case?" As I said before, you will NEVER legally need that much ammo, and if you get into a situation where you think you do, you should never have been in that location in the first place. |
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I've seen dozens (if not hundreds) of reports where a would-be victim defended themself with a few well placed shots. I can't think of any of the top of my head where 3 mags were needed. North Hollywood bank robberies are the exception not the rule and frankly most members here would be a corpse if they jumped up with their glock .40's to take on two men with body armor and full auto ak47's. Like the man says in Heat, "Your money is insured". IMO If you walk around with the type of mentality that allows you to get in a situation that you need 45 rounds to exit you're irresponsible. A permit is not a badge and should not be confused with one. Flame on internet ninjas, flame on |
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I do not have a CCWP, but I DO know that the weakest link in any reliable weapon is your mags and your ammo. Even proven mags can fail from time to time. There are thousands of scenarios where you may need more rounds than what you have on you. Are they likely? No. Do you want to be killed from a lack of shooting back? I plan on getting my CCWP soon, if the need ever arises that I need to shoot someone with it my plan will not involve firing 3 rounds at the threat and then turning my back to it, to run away. I will shoot until the threat is no more or I can no longer return fire. Faced with 3 attackers I lean more towards my shooting ability than my fleetness afoot. I had rather take two to the chest than one to the back.
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Lot of good your "DEFENSIVE" weapon will be when your lone mag malfunctions. But you go ahead and keep that mentality. When/If the mag in my pistol malfunctions, I'll just reload. What will you do? Try to scare the attacker away? |
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I'd agree that 8rds is on the low side for what is needed to defend yourself. Personally I carry 15rds of 9mm JHP, which I feel is more than enough to DEFEND myself and anyone I am with from IMMEDIATE danger. If a North Hollywood robbery were to break out, unless I am the target, my ass is OUT of there. You are NOT a LEO, and therefore should not be taking part in any shootout, in fact, if you WERE to just jump into a shootout like that, I wouldnt be suprised if you were held liable for any colateral dammage you caused, or were just shot by a confused cop who doesnt know the differnce from a BG in civilian clothing shooting a gun and a suburban internet commando in civilian clothing shooting a gun. As much as you may like to think so, a CCW license, and even one of those retarded CCW badges does not give you ANY sort of law enforcement capacity. It is merely a license to carry a weapon to defend YOURSELF and YOUR company from immediate danger. It is not an obligation, or even a suggestion to take it upon yourself to be a good samaratan. If you want to carry 2 spare mags plus one in the weapon locked and loaded, go be a real cop. And as for mags crapping out: if you even remotely think there is a possibility of your mags/weapon taking a dump, you need to re-evaluate your selection of carry weapon/mags. I trust my weapon and mags with my life, and with good reason. |
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I carry a G20 in with 15rnd mags so I get 31, 10mm with one in the pipe.
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ANYTHING mechanical can and will fail. It's not a matter of if, but when. Two is one. One is none. |
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What if you have to go to/are knocked to the ground and your floorplate is cracked sending ammo everywhere? I have seen it happen. If you have a spare mag you can reload and be back in the fight in seconds. If not, what would you do? You could chase your ammo around on the ground and load them into the chamber by hand one at a time. |
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Agreed, sir. It is easy to take it too far and try to cart a crew-served weapon with you wherever you go, but it is just as easy to say you will never need more than is in your gun. Both are incorrect ideas and methods. I personally carry 18 rounds, in 2 mags, and feel perfectly able to defend myself. The ability to change mags is much more important than how many rounds I can carry. 7+1 in the gun and a 10 round spare makes me feel fine. I am conscious to avoid situations where I could get into a prolonged gunfight or would need more than that. I'm not "providing cover fire" or "reconning by fire" so I don't more ammo. |
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That's about the right philosophy right there. Self defense starts with making a concious effort to not get into a situation where you need to defend yourself in the first place. I do see your points on broken mags, and maybe I will reconsider whether I carry a spare or not. Just keep in mind: reloading is a CONSCIOUS decision that you need more ammo than what you have already fired. If you empty your weapon in self defense you can always claim panic trigger pull, but there is no such thing as a panic mag change. If you do change that mag, MAKE DAMN SURE YOU NEED IT! You WILL be asked why you felt the need to reload either by the responding LEO or god forbid by a grand jury. |
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Stop making sense. |
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I carry one spare mag for my .40 cal sig. No spare mag is stupid. You may not have to fire 24 shots, but hit that mag release on accident and your screwed. I'm also comfortable carrying a 5 shot revolver with one reload.
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OK, here is an honest question...
What about a revolver? The chance of mechanical failure is very slim. The chance of magazine failure is 0. I carry a .357. It holds 5 rounds. I figure if I need more than that, I am certainly in a world of trouble that I most likely could have avoided. Misfire? Dud? Very, VERY slim chance. The NRA certified instructor who taught our CCW course told us <Paraphrased> "If you have time to reload, your life is not in immediate danger" |
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Instructors ain't always the brightest lot around.....there was a thread around here where one claimed that a loaf of bread could stop a .45. I look at it like this: The penalty for carrying too much ammo is far less than that for not having enough. |
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Carrying a gun with no spare ammo is like counting on the air bag to save your life because putting on the seat belt is too much trouble. |
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It's not the odds, its the stakes. Sure, you are unlikely to need the gun, let alone a second magazine. But that is little comfort if you are the one poor bastard in a million who ends up lying on the pavement with a pistol at slidelock and attackers still breathing.
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This was posted here long ago, where it was stolen from a GlockTalk post*. I won't post the entire discussion, but put yourself in this man's position and tell me whether you think 5 rounds of .357 is enough. *If the original poster is here or somebody here knows him and me posting this is causing a problem, please let me know. This story was written and posted in a public forum, so I'm going on the assumption that it's OK to post again. Again, this is NOT my story, nor do I have any affiliation with the writer.
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The guy fired 6 shots in what I am sure is an extraordinary situation. This shows that carrying 999+ rounds in your backpack is not necessary.
Most times, after you clear leather and fire a shot or two, dirtbags are going to leave. |
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some people are hopeless, it is STUPID to trust your life to one mag or cylinder full of ammo. no one is saying you need to carry 1000 rounds or even a hundred rounds, but at LEAST have one reload. |
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He fired six rounds from what was likely a pistol holding eight rounds. What if the guys in the van HAD got out and wanted to fight? |
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Sure you can try, but even that decision of what to try to prepare for first is based on stats and norms. The more information you have the more accurate your decisions can be. You might be able to try, but you cannot be prepared for everything, so you might as well make the decision on what to prepare for and how to prepare for it based on reality. |
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That is pretty much it. Way to many CCW holders seem to have fantasies that they will get into extended gunfights with gangbangers where they will be able to swap lead for hours without ever getting over-run or shot. For most people, if you need these huge amounts of ammo the problem you need to worry about is not running out of ammo, it is something far more basic. |
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As a non-LE CCW holder, why would you get caught up in that in a manner that would cause you to need more than 8 rounds? Look at all those non-LE folks who didn't have any guns at all and they made it through the fight OK. |
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Ayup. For the record I carry a 20" AR cocked and locked with 6 extra magazines on a daily basis. People look at me funny in Walmart but hey, at least the greeter leaves me alone. Seriously, I think 1 or 2 extra mags are okay, depending on the size and capacity of the magazines and the comfort level of wearing it and the ability to conceal them. You go too much farther than that on a daily basis and you're probably wandering deep into urban commando territory. However, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. As for "you're stupid if you don't carry an extra mag", lighten up. If someone carries a gun, period, they're part of the 99th percentile. It's up to the individual to determine if the reliability/capacity benefit of an extra magazine or 2 outweighs the pain in the ass to actually wear them and conceal them. Same goes for a BUG. Some of you guys are kinda out there with this stuff to the point where I wonder if you feel safe on the freeway without a M240 mounted on your vehicle. |
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All I can tell you bud is in 40 years of carrying I haven't needed more than two rounds let alone mags. I've needed or glad I had a firearm more times than I can count.
I'm not a cop thus not charged with apprehension nor do I plan on ever shooting it out with cops. I don't have enemies that want to chase me down and kill me, therefore motivation to do so would be rage or robbery. I don't practice spray and pray cause first I know how to shoot and second I know I am responsible for every round I put out both legally and financially. I've been in trouble enough to know I don't panic. I honestly don't feel underarmed carrying my snubnose with no extra ammunition. That being said, if I own a mag bearing weapon, I'm stupid for not having a spare mag or two cause hey that's what they are designed to do. If I didn't I shouldn't have bought the gun and should have stuck with revolver. I pretty much use the old school cop concept of one mag in the gun and two spares in a separate holder. High cap, I may cut that down to one in the gun and one in the holster mag holder. That's about 24-45 rounds. My 1911s fit into the one in and two extras catagory. I don't buy the failure logic for I'd be remiss to risk my life on an unproven weapon system. I test the mags and ammunition I carry for self defense and then go back and occasionaly reverify just in case. Hope this helps some. Tj |
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Well shit, if that doesn't happen you should just give up, right? |
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Any chance you might have some case law to back all that up? |
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