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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:50:01 PM EDT
Describe this to me, please. Technically, what's going when and if this happens?

I've put almost 5,000 rnds through my Custom II, no problems with the FP safety......but saw in another thread the statement about it being "out of time"........just curious what could cause it.....
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:20:28 PM EDT
I gotta know this................
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 7:14:37 PM EDT
The Schwartz system uses the grip safety to release the firing pin right? Whereas with Colt, it's part of the trigger mechanism.

Here's what happens -- the grip safety engages enough to allow the trigger to pull and the hammer to drop. However, the Schwartz safety lever doesn't go up far enough to push the plunger out of the way and allow the firing pin to go forward. So you get a "click" and no boom.

If you've got a lot of rounds through your gun and no issues, then I wouldn't worry about it. If you're really worried, take apart the slide and look at your plunger and firing pin. Is there any evidence of peening of the metal indicating that the firing pin is being forced past a plunger that isn't completely out of the way? If there is, you may want to worry. If not, don't worry.

Conventional wisdom here is that the Colt system is preferred because it's less likely to have a timing issue. But it still could happen in much the same way. Also, I think the rumor is that Colt dropped the Schwartz system (they used to use it decades ago) because they couldn't get it to work reliably.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:17:01 PM EDT
That's it? Big deal.......

Thanks for that reply. I was thinkin' there was some technical something I wasn't aware of. I had already checked my gun, out of curiosity, a long time ago. Mine is set up just right, I guess. If the grip safety's in far enough for the trigger to pull, the firing pin is released. No problem there.

I've had my safety block out also, when changing rear sight. No evidence of peening or drag, on it or the FP.

Thanks, if that's all they're talkin' about......that's nothin'!
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:30:49 PM EDT
I thought Colt dropped it because of WWII ending civilian handgun production for a while?
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 5:48:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By packinheavy:
I thought Colt dropped it because of WWII ending civilian handgun production for a while?



I hadn't heard that one. But why wouldn't they continue using the Schwartz safety after they started making them again if that were the case?
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 9:50:31 AM EDT
Sorry I do not have the link but if you google the swartz safety you will find a very good somewhat long article on colts history with this safety and the reasons they stopped using it. I have since forgotten exactly what it said since once I realized my kimbers were okay I did not care about the issues anymore.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 10:00:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/23/2008 10:26:06 AM EDT by K9-Bob]
I was concerned that about Series II safety, so I just replaced the original firing pin with a Colt Series 70 type. It was an easy fix and so far foolproof. 15,000 rounds and counting.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 10:02:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/23/2008 10:03:01 AM EDT by hellbound]
if it really bothers you, you can remove it. 70 series colts don't have it and neither do most custom 1911's. (i know someone is going to come along and say that removing it is bad if you have to shoot someone, liability, wah wah)

either way, to remove it:
- strip the gun as normal
- strip the slide (remove firing pin/spring, and extractor and while you are in there give it a good cleaning)
- drift the rear sight out of it's dove tail (IIRC, my kimber was left to right to remove, right to left to install)
- the top portion of the swartz safety will fall out (it's a [ shaped collar and a spring)
- reassemble the slide
- strip the frame down (remove the MSH, and all the internals)
- when you remove the sear, there will be a small b-shaped piece to the right of it which is the bottom portion of the swartz safety (this is the piece that is actuated by the grip safety, goes through the frame, and pushes the FP collar up and out of the way, grind off the finger that goes through the frame
- reassemble the frame
- reassemble the gun

it took longer for me to type out the instructions than it does to do the actual removal...
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 6:55:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hellbound:
if it really bothers you, you can remove it. 70 series colts don't have it and neither do most custom 1911's. (i know someone is going to come along and say that removing it is bad if you have to shoot someone, liability, wah wah)

either way, to remove it:
- strip the gun as normal
- strip the slide (remove firing pin/spring, and extractor and while you are in there give it a good cleaning)
- drift the rear sight out of it's dove tail (IIRC, my kimber was left to right to remove, right to left to install)
- the top portion of the swartz safety will fall out (it's a [ shaped collar and a spring)
- reassemble the slide
- strip the frame down (remove the MSH, and all the internals)
- when you remove the sear, there will be a small b-shaped piece to the right of it which is the bottom portion of the swartz safety (this is the piece that is actuated by the grip safety, goes through the frame, and pushes the FP collar up and out of the way, grind off the finger that goes through the frame
- reassemble the frame
- reassemble the gun

it took longer for me to type out the instructions than it does to do the actual removal...


I know. I've had all that stuff out before. I can yank the stuff out someday if it does give me trouble. Just curious about the "out of time" thing.

K-9Bob, that's good to know. I'd have thought a series 70 FP would experience drag against the FP safety block, put in like that. Sounds like you've proved that wrong, though. Very good to know. Ineresting to know that this would actually work also.

Good stuff. Always been fascinated by the techincal aspects of the 1911.
Link Posted: 7/24/2008 7:07:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911:

Originally Posted By packinheavy:
I thought Colt dropped it because of WWII ending civilian handgun production for a while?



I hadn't heard that one. But why wouldn't they continue using the Schwartz safety after they started making them again if that were the case?


I have no idea other than maybe they thought it was more trouble than it was worth. Maybe the tooling was tossed or recycled during war time production?

I know some of the 1911s purchased by the Brits early in the war when they were desperate for arms had the safety installed. I wonder how they worked out?
Link Posted: 8/3/2008 6:18:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ViniVidivici:
That's it? Big deal.......

Thanks for that reply. I was thinkin' there was some technical something I wasn't aware of. I had already checked my gun, out of curiosity, a long time ago. Mine is set up just right, I guess. If the grip safety's in far enough for the trigger to pull, the firing pin is released. No problem there.

I've had my safety block out also, when changing rear sight. No evidence of peening or drag, on it or the FP.

Thanks, if that's all they're talkin' about......that's nothin'!


until yours might take a sh*t like mine did
Link Posted: 8/3/2008 7:40:53 PM EDT
Well.......

Two words for ya...............BACKUP GUN..........

I suppose if mine craps out on me, I'll just replace the parts, or leave em' out.

Who knows, I may give it some thought.........was a guy on here, said he put a series 70 type FP in, had no issues in thousands of rounds.......thinkin' about it......
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