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Link Posted: 6/9/2015 11:25:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/9/2015 11:26:04 AM EST by John_Wayne777]
Link Posted: 6/9/2015 1:28:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
The stainless steel slides used on modern Sigs show a longer service life than the folded carbon slides used on other guns. They were, in fact, specifically engineered to get rid of the need to replace roll pins and the other frequent maintenance needed to keep the folded carbon steel slides running and as a result they exhibit a typically longer and less maintenance intensive service life.

So it's a question of the totally engineered package moreso than just the materials involved.

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But muh finely crafted Swiss balance, and that 2oz weight savings bro!

Milled slide 9mm Sig w/ short legacy extractor FTW.

Link Posted: 6/9/2015 7:21:32 PM EST
Interesting thread!

Do you also rent some of the non-traditional SIG's like the SP2022, P250 or the P290RS? How do they perform compared to their aluminum framed counterparts?
Link Posted: 6/9/2015 8:06:03 PM EST
Cool thread OP.  Thanks for sharing.  Have you guys had any S&W M&P's for rental?
Link Posted: 6/9/2015 8:29:04 PM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Grendelsbane:

Which Glock .22 conversion do you use?  Any other tidbits would be interesting (any break in required, ammo that is great or causes problems, etc.)

View Quote




 
AA, TacSol or _____?
Link Posted: 6/12/2015 11:01:55 AM EST
I apologize for not doing any updates. We've have been overwhelmed with all the tourist traffic hitting town and losing some of our staff to annual training. I will get some questions answered soon!

V/R
Ron
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 10:48:31 AM EST
Not surprised at all to see that the Glock is the most durable/reliable handgun at extreme round counts vs. the competition.



Seems to be a very common observation amongst people that get to be around guns that actually get used hard. ie: SMEs if you will.







Thanks for sharing your experiences OP. Keep it up, info like this is invaluable
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 11:29:47 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Not surprised at all to see that the Glock is the most durable/reliable handgun at extreme round counts vs. the competition.

Seems to be a very common observation amongst people that get to be around guns that actually get used hard. ie: SMEs if you will.




Thanks for sharing your experiences OP. Keep it up, info like this is invaluable
View Quote


Yeah no.   The top title would hands-down go to H&K when durability and reliability are concerned.  Just not as popular....
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 11:47:13 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:


Yeah no.   The top title would hands-down go to H&K when durability and reliability are concerned.  Just not as popular....
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Originally Posted By samuse:
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Not surprised at all to see that the Glock is the most durable/reliable handgun at extreme round counts vs. the competition.

Seems to be a very common observation amongst people that get to be around guns that actually get used hard. ie: SMEs if you will.




Thanks for sharing your experiences OP. Keep it up, info like this is invaluable


Yeah no.   The top title would hands-down go to H&K when durability and reliability are concerned.  Just not as popular....


I don't doubt the durability of an HK, but do you have any good data to back that claim up?
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 11:47:46 AM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:
Yeah no.   The top title would hands-down go to H&K when durability and reliability are concerned.  Just not as popular....

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Originally Posted By samuse:



Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:

Not surprised at all to see that the Glock is the most durable/reliable handgun at extreme round counts vs. the competition.



Seems to be a very common observation amongst people that get to be around guns that actually get used hard. ie: SMEs if you will.
Thanks for sharing your experiences OP. Keep it up, info like this is invaluable





Yeah no.   The top title would hands-down go to H&K when durability and reliability are concerned.  Just not as popular....





 



If you say so.




http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/i-think-my-21-has-proven-its-durability.462537/
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 12:30:58 PM EST
Great thread (well, most of it). Looking forward to more updates from OP.
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 12:35:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:

 

If you say so.


http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/i-think-my-21-has-proven-its-durability.462537/
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Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Originally Posted By samuse:
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Not surprised at all to see that the Glock is the most durable/reliable handgun at extreme round counts vs. the competition.

Seems to be a very common observation amongst people that get to be around guns that actually get used hard. ie: SMEs if you will.




Thanks for sharing your experiences OP. Keep it up, info like this is invaluable


Yeah no.   The top title would hands-down go to H&K when durability and reliability are concerned.  Just not as popular....

 

If you say so.


http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/i-think-my-21-has-proven-its-durability.462537/


I got to shoot that gun (not during the test). Just a few rounds at an event ADCO hosted. More to just be able to come on the internet and tell people I shot it... so here I am.
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 12:40:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spartan16:
Great thread (well, most of it). Looking forward to more updates from OP.
View Quote



One of the armorers brought this back to me this week and corrected me about broken Beretta's. This is the only part that breaks on the M92. I don't know the name of the piece but it's not integral to the barrel. There is a pin that holds it in place and the part is easily replaced.

V/R
Ron

Link Posted: 6/14/2015 12:43:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rush4theYehO:
Cool thread OP.  Thanks for sharing.  Have you guys had any S&W M&P's for rental?
View Quote

Link Posted: 6/14/2015 12:51:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:



One of the armorers brought this back to me this week and corrected me about broken Beretta's. This is the only part that breaks on the M92. I don't know the name of the piece but it's not integral to the barrel. There is a pin that holds it in place and the part is easily replaced.

V/R
Ron

http://i.imgur.com/fH3bt4u.jpg
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By Spartan16:
Great thread (well, most of it). Looking forward to more updates from OP.



One of the armorers brought this back to me this week and corrected me about broken Beretta's. This is the only part that breaks on the M92. I don't know the name of the piece but it's not integral to the barrel. There is a pin that holds it in place and the part is easily replaced.

V/R
Ron

http://i.imgur.com/fH3bt4u.jpg


locking block
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 1:28:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:



One of the armorers brought this back to me this week and corrected me about broken Beretta's. This is the only part that breaks on the M92. I don't know the name of the piece but it's not integral to the barrel. There is a pin that holds it in place and the part is easily replaced.

V/R
Ron

http://i.imgur.com/fH3bt4u.jpg
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By Spartan16:
Great thread (well, most of it). Looking forward to more updates from OP.



One of the armorers brought this back to me this week and corrected me about broken Beretta's. This is the only part that breaks on the M92. I don't know the name of the piece but it's not integral to the barrel. There is a pin that holds it in place and the part is easily replaced.

V/R
Ron

http://i.imgur.com/fH3bt4u.jpg

Looks like a gen 1 locking block, they are on gen 3 at this point and those last the life of the barrel
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 1:45:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dieselman:


I don't doubt the durability of an HK, but do you have any good data to back that claim up?
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Originally Posted By Dieselman:
Originally Posted By samuse:
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Not surprised at all to see that the Glock is the most durable/reliable handgun at extreme round counts vs. the competition.

Seems to be a very common observation amongst people that get to be around guns that actually get used hard. ie: SMEs if you will.




Thanks for sharing your experiences OP. Keep it up, info like this is invaluable


Yeah no.   The top title would hands-down go to H&K when durability and reliability are concerned.  Just not as popular....


I don't doubt the durability of an HK, but do you have any good data to back that claim up?


The first spring change interval of a P30 is about the service life of a Glock in 40.   No doubt a Glock will go for some miles, but I've been around high round count Glocks for a long time and they don't usually go 'for-ev-er' like everyone thinks they do.  

35-50K on a 9mm is pushin' it.  They like to break the frame rail tabs and crack slides.  USPSA shooters wring 'em out.  

I'm a Glock guy, always have been, but you have know your equipment.  
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 3:10:01 PM EST
Ron, do you have any Walther PPQs?  Or any of the "budget" guns like Sarsilmaz or Canik?
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 5:16:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:


The first spring change interval of a P30 is about the service life of a Glock in 40.   No doubt a Glock will go for some miles, but I've been around high round count Glocks for a long time and they don't usually go 'for-ev-er' like everyone thinks they do.  

35-50K on a 9mm is pushin' it.  They like to break the frame rail tabs and crack slides.  USPSA shooters wring 'em out.  

I'm a Glock guy, always have been, but you have know your equipment.  
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:
Originally Posted By Dieselman:
Originally Posted By samuse:
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Not surprised at all to see that the Glock is the most durable/reliable handgun at extreme round counts vs. the competition.

Seems to be a very common observation amongst people that get to be around guns that actually get used hard. ie: SMEs if you will.




Thanks for sharing your experiences OP. Keep it up, info like this is invaluable


Yeah no.   The top title would hands-down go to H&K when durability and reliability are concerned.  Just not as popular....


I don't doubt the durability of an HK, but do you have any good data to back that claim up?


The first spring change interval of a P30 is about the service life of a Glock in 40.   No doubt a Glock will go for some miles, but I've been around high round count Glocks for a long time and they don't usually go 'for-ev-er' like everyone thinks they do.  

35-50K on a 9mm is pushin' it.  They like to break the frame rail tabs and crack slides.  USPSA shooters wring 'em out.  

I'm a Glock guy, always have been, but you have know your equipment.  


As cheap as glocks are, if you shoot 50k through it and have to get a new one...who cares? Especially if a pistol double the price only makes it a third longer
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 5:45:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:As cheap as glocks are, if you shoot 50k through it and have to get a new one...who cares? Especially if a pistol double the price only makes it a third longer?
View Quote


Exactly.  I have 3 H&Ks because I like 'em.  I shoot my Glocks more because I like 'em more.  

As far as high round count rentals goes...   A range here has a Gen 4 19 with about 10K through it that's totally unreliable with any ammo.  They won't fix it because people still rent it....
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 5:51:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:


Exactly.  I have 3 H&Ks because I like 'em.  I shoot my Glocks more because I like 'em more.  

As far as high round count rentals goes...   A range here has a Gen 4 19 with about 10K through it that's totally unreliable with any ammo.  They won't fix it because people still rent it....
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Originally Posted By samuse:
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:As cheap as glocks are, if you shoot 50k through it and have to get a new one...who cares? Especially if a pistol double the price only makes it a third longer?


Exactly.  I have 3 H&Ks because I like 'em.  I shoot my Glocks more because I like 'em more.  

As far as high round count rentals goes...   A range here has a Gen 4 19 with about 10K through it that's totally unreliable with any ammo.  They won't fix it because people still rent it....


Wonder what's wrong with it...that's strange.
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 5:53:48 PM EST
I had to replace the extractor on my Gen 4 19 at 5000 rounds because I started to get failures to eject.
Link Posted: 6/14/2015 11:23:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By boarklr:


Wonder what's wrong with it...that's strange.
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Originally Posted By boarklr:
Originally Posted By samuse:
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:As cheap as glocks are, if you shoot 50k through it and have to get a new one...who cares? Especially if a pistol double the price only makes it a third longer?


Exactly.  I have 3 H&Ks because I like 'em.  I shoot my Glocks more because I like 'em more.  

As far as high round count rentals goes...   A range here has a Gen 4 19 with about 10K through it that's totally unreliable with any ammo.  They won't fix it because people still rent it....


Wonder what's wrong with it...that's strange.


How long guns last is dependent on a lot of different variables. You can't just say "Glocks don't last long cause I know a guy who's extractor broke at 1k rounds." or "H&K's last forever cause I have one with thousands of rounds through it." Just about every modern quality handgun should go thousands of rounds without problems barring manufacturing defects. Then at what point do you declare a gun to fail at? When the extractor breaks? When the slide cracks? When the frame cracks? 1911's in US service have over a half million rounds through the frames made prior to 1945. Every part on them has broken and been replaced, but according to the .gov it is still the same pistol. That pistol has probably "failed" countless times, but not the frame and is therefore still in service.

If you want to do a somewhat scientific test go and buy every modern pistol and fire each one with the same ammo until something breaks. That is data I would like to see instead of blatant claims or links to "torture tests" that really don't mean anything when it comes to longevity.

This thread is great cause it shows what is the most likely part of each model to break prematurely. Every design has an achilles heel and it is nice to know what it is.
Link Posted: 6/15/2015 12:53:00 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xoldsmugglerx:
How long guns last is dependent on a lot of different variables. You can't just say "Glocks don't last long cause I know a guy who's extractor broke at 1k rounds." or "H&K's last forever cause I have one with thousands of rounds through it." Just about every modern quality handgun should go thousands of rounds without problems barring manufacturing defects. Then at what point do you declare a gun to fail at? When the extractor breaks? When the slide cracks? When the frame cracks? 1911's in US service have over a half million rounds through the frames made prior to 1945. Every part on them has broken and been replaced, but according to the .gov it is still the same pistol. That pistol has probably "failed" countless times, but not the frame and is therefore still in service.

If you want to do a somewhat scientific test go and buy every modern pistol and fire each one with the same ammo until something breaks. That is data I would like to see instead of blatant claims or links to "torture tests" that really don't mean anything when it comes to longevity.

This thread is great cause it shows what is the most likely part of each model to break prematurely. Every design has an achilles heel and it is nice to know what it is.
View Quote


This is what I've seen in over ten years shooting competition, classes and range quals.  No goofy torture tests.

Glock 23 Gen3, slide cracked through ejection port,  unknown round count, though not terribly high.
Glock 34 Gen 3, rear frame rail broke off around 30K, Glock replaced entire pistol, replacement pistol broke a frame rail somewhere around 32-35K.
Glock 17 Gen2, many rounds, probably about 50K, slide cracked through ejection port.
Glock 23 Gen3 , breech face cracked out, maybe due to dry-firing, still a broke gun.
Glock 19 Gen3, very low round count, approximate 3K, slide lock spring broke flush with the frame, frame had to be replaced by Glock.
I've seen trigger bars worn out where the bar lifts the firing pin plunger, and one trigger spring that I can recall.  I know of several that were retired due to excessive breech face erosion after several years of USPSA, probably close to 50K.

I don't have a lot of personal experience with H&Ks, but I used to shoot with a bunch of CBP guys who did and they held up very well, they were .40s.  I had a trainer who was a SWAT guy and an H&K shooter who had several go into the 60s and 70s with nothing but regular spring changes and a detent plate.  He had actually modded STI 2011 mags to work in his USP for limited division.  I thought that was fuckery at the finest, but they worked....
Link Posted: 6/15/2015 3:17:46 AM EST
What is your indicator you use to determine the Sigs need a replacement recoil spring, since that seems to be the part that breaks?

My most used Sig has maybe 10k rounds on it, so I'm nowhere near your limits.  

This is a cool thread.  Thanks!

Link Posted: 6/15/2015 5:43:33 AM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
We use their ammo for several reasons.. honesty, quality and reliability. We've dealt with Federal/ATK over the years and THE MOMENT there is any type of ammo hysteria they will immediately cancel all existing orders and be gracious enough to let us re-order the same ammo at a higher price. Magtech has never pulled that on us and always kept an open order regardless of any sales hype. The ammo has always run clean in our weapons and the ammo has been consistent from lot to lot. Lastly, all of our weapons function on it where others are loaded to light or primers back out and jam the weapons.



The honesty is the biggest concern for me because there's nothing like getting an email from Federal ATK saying that all the ammo that we agreed to sell you two months ago is much more valuable now and we are going back on our word.



V/R

Ron

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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:



Originally Posted By seamasterpro:


Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:


Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:

What brand of ammo do you run?



Do you sell the ammo by the magazine or by the box?




We are a 100% rental range only. Customers don't bring their firearms and rent lanes. We cater to the tourist market here in Las Vegas. An example is an MP5 rental. A guest can come in and rent an MP5 or Uzi for $29 and that includes one 25-round magazine, eye/ear protection and target. Also, we load the weapon for the customer and the RSO hands it over to the customer and then we take control of the weapon as soon as it's empty.



As for ammo, we use Magtech ammo for most of the handgun calibers, Privi Partizan for .30-06, .308, .303Brit, 8mm Mauser and a couple of the larger handgun calibers. When it comes to quality control, I will say that Magtech has the least issues but they ALL have provided us ammo with an upside primer or a bullet seated upside down.



V/R

Ron




Interesting, why do you use Magtech? Do they give good discount prices to ranges? It's been maybe two years since I've shot any but when I did it was excessively dirty, I would think that would be a hindrance with rental guns as you would need to clean them more often, however that's what a few local places run in their rental guns as well.



I work across the street from their corporate headquarters so I figured the local ranges used it because of convenience.




We use their ammo for several reasons.. honesty, quality and reliability. We've dealt with Federal/ATK over the years and THE MOMENT there is any type of ammo hysteria they will immediately cancel all existing orders and be gracious enough to let us re-order the same ammo at a higher price. Magtech has never pulled that on us and always kept an open order regardless of any sales hype. The ammo has always run clean in our weapons and the ammo has been consistent from lot to lot. Lastly, all of our weapons function on it where others are loaded to light or primers back out and jam the weapons.



The honesty is the biggest concern for me because there's nothing like getting an email from Federal ATK saying that all the ammo that we agreed to sell you two months ago is much more valuable now and we are going back on our word.



V/R

Ron



Wow, that's like Cheaper Than Dirt level messed up.



 
Link Posted: 6/15/2015 6:55:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/15/2015 2:51:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stangfan93:
Not to hijack, but only provide high round count 1911s, here's a post from Louder than words where a guy has a 103k+ round SA operator. Gunsmith Ned Christiansen works in the gun and provided the pics.


linky
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Thank you for posting that.

I just looked and realized that my 1911's barrel during recoil is stopping at the frame too far down and that will shorten the barrel life before failure.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 7:09:00 PM EST
Very neat thread, keep the updates coming!  I rented a grease gun at your shop last time I was in Vegas and had a ton of fun. Nice operation you have. It was the highlight of my trip.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 7:25:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xachary82:
In for info on the 1911s. Specifically the springfield flavors..
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Me too!

OP, you got any M&P's in your inventory???
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 4:33:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/24/2015 4:37:18 PM EST by ITCHY-FINGER]
Excellent thread!!

When I took my Glock armorer training, we played with the police academy Glock 22's that every class shoots the crap out of and never maintains. We detail stripped them and found 2-3 that had broken locking blocks. They worked 100% but the block came out in two or 3 pieces. One had a cracked slide near the ejection port. They told us that groups go all crazy once the slide cracks but will still shoot reliably.

I have personally had 2-3 slide stop springs break, 1-2 trigger springs break and a slide lock spring break on my various 9 and 40 Glocks.  

I have never broken anything on my Sig P229 (low round count guns) but have lots of rust and constant grip screws coming lose, rusting etc. Same with my Sig P230 (.380).
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 5:43:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/30/2015 5:44:26 PM EST by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 5:46:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 6:10:15 PM EST
Great threads, thanks OP
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 1:09:12 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

Sig uses a braided recoil spring which gives extra life....but after 10K you should consider replacing the recoil spring.


Cheap preventative maintenance.  Recoil springs are stupid-cheap compared to the ammo being shot and if I ran that range, I would have a replacement schedule.  I bet they would be super-stupid cheap in quantity too.

On those hard-use guns, fuck, just replace them weekly.
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I believe the armorers got with my operations manager and asked if they could do just that. My operations manager make sure that nobody makes unjustified purchases but he also understands the old "penny wise, pound foolish" mentality. By not purchasing that cheap recoil spring and saving a few bucks we'll probably lose a slide in a matter of time that probably had thousands upon thousands of rounds left on it.

When we first opened, the general contractor didn't pay over $150,000 to the sub-contractors that was owed and that really put us in a bind. We had to watch EVERY penny being spent and I had to put my personal firearms on the line as weapons went down. Things have changed dramatically since that point but BEING in that position makes sure that you never want to be there again and spending foolishly will get you back there in no time.

V/R
Ron
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:24:07 AM EST
Ron,



Earlier in the thread you mentioned you were going to get more info on the 1911s. I'm interested to see what your experience has been with those.




1911s get bashed quite a bit, but they are still my favorite pistol. Nothing fits my hand better, nor shoots as well for me as a good 1911.




I think the problem with the platform, and some of its "reliability" issues, comes from a super saturated market where everyone and their brother is making mags, barrels, etc. for the platform. Where as with say Glock for instance, you really only have two or three companies making mags, and most all the Glock owners I know only run Glock brand mags (with the exception of the new Magpul's), and you only have a couple companies making aftermarket barrels. However, so far to my knowledge Glock is the only one making slides and frames.




Where as with the 1911, there are a TON of people making slides and frames. I think this is what leads to many of the complaints about the platform. If Colt were the only one making the 1911's core components, like Glock on their pistols, I think we'd see a lot less of these complaints.




Then again, I could be totally wrong, and I'm just a 1911 fanboy




Thanks again for all of your comments and posts. The information you are providing is TRULY appreciated.












Link Posted: 7/1/2015 10:52:07 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Muad:
However, so far to my knowledge Glock is the only one making slides and frames.
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I know this does not answer your question, but to clarify this has been changing over the years.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 10:57:23 AM EST
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Originally Posted By PhatForrest:

Wow, that's like Cheaper Than Dirt level messed up.
 
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Originally Posted By PhatForrest:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By seamasterpro:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
What brand of ammo do you run?

Do you sell the ammo by the magazine or by the box?


We are a 100% rental range only. Customers don't bring their firearms and rent lanes. We cater to the tourist market here in Las Vegas. An example is an MP5 rental. A guest can come in and rent an MP5 or Uzi for $29 and that includes one 25-round magazine, eye/ear protection and target. Also, we load the weapon for the customer and the RSO hands it over to the customer and then we take control of the weapon as soon as it's empty.

As for ammo, we use Magtech ammo for most of the handgun calibers, Privi Partizan for .30-06, .308, .303Brit, 8mm Mauser and a couple of the larger handgun calibers. When it comes to quality control, I will say that Magtech has the least issues but they ALL have provided us ammo with an upside primer or a bullet seated upside down.

V/R
Ron


Interesting, why do you use Magtech? Do they give good discount prices to ranges? It's been maybe two years since I've shot any but when I did it was excessively dirty, I would think that would be a hindrance with rental guns as you would need to clean them more often, however that's what a few local places run in their rental guns as well.

I work across the street from their corporate headquarters so I figured the local ranges used it because of convenience.


We use their ammo for several reasons.. honesty, quality and reliability. We've dealt with Federal/ATK over the years and THE MOMENT there is any type of ammo hysteria they will immediately cancel all existing orders and be gracious enough to let us re-order the same ammo at a higher price. Magtech has never pulled that on us and always kept an open order regardless of any sales hype. The ammo has always run clean in our weapons and the ammo has been consistent from lot to lot. Lastly, all of our weapons function on it where others are loaded to light or primers back out and jam the weapons.

The honesty is the biggest concern for me because there's nothing like getting an email from Federal ATK saying that all the ammo that we agreed to sell you two months ago is much more valuable now and we are going back on our word.

V/R
Ron

Wow, that's like Cheaper Than Dirt level messed up.
 


I saw you guys loading up some wolf when I was there a couple months ago

I could tell the Uzi, mp5, and galil micro, and scar had seen some serious usage, not in adverse conditions but you could tell they had a ton of rounds through them. The CZ scorpion evo 3 was obviously very new and very awesome...looking to do an SBR for myself now.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:14:01 AM EST

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Originally Posted By testudo:
I know this does not answer your question, but to clarify this has been changing over the years.
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Originally Posted By testudo:



Originally Posted By Muad:

However, so far to my knowledge Glock is the only one making slides and frames.





I know this does not answer your question, but to clarify this has been changing over the years.
That's not surprising to me.



I've been out of the Glock game for some time. At one time I had seven. Loved them. However, I just don't shoot them as well as a 1911.






Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:39:33 AM EST
How do the FNX45s hold up at the rental range?
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 9:12:32 AM EST
Revolvers, what have you found for longivity in revolvers, round count, calibers, repairs?
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 9:23:32 AM EST
As others have said, great thread and thanks for your valuable contribution!
Link Posted: 7/2/2015 9:41:55 AM EST
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:



One of the armorers brought this back to me this week and corrected me about broken Beretta's. This is the only part that breaks on the M92. I don't know the name of the piece but it's not integral to the barrel. There is a pin that holds it in place and the part is easily replaced.

V/R
Ron

http://i.imgur.com/fH3bt4u.jpg
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By Spartan16:
Great thread (well, most of it). Looking forward to more updates from OP.



One of the armorers brought this back to me this week and corrected me about broken Beretta's. This is the only part that breaks on the M92. I don't know the name of the piece but it's not integral to the barrel. There is a pin that holds it in place and the part is easily replaced.

V/R
Ron

http://i.imgur.com/fH3bt4u.jpg


locking block yep in the mil these get replaced once broken, but that time the gun is starting to show significant wear on the slide.  The larger issue is the recoil spring need to be replaced at the service indication otherwise the slide and block just gets beat to death until failure.  You'd think the govt would be more proactive on checking the springs, they don't.  
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 6:02:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dieselman:


I don't doubt the durability of an HK, but do you have any good data to back that claim up?
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Originally Posted By Dieselman:
Originally Posted By samuse:
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Not surprised at all to see that the Glock is the most durable/reliable handgun at extreme round counts vs. the competition.

Seems to be a very common observation amongst people that get to be around guns that actually get used hard. ie: SMEs if you will.




Thanks for sharing your experiences OP. Keep it up, info like this is invaluable


Yeah no.   The top title would hands-down go to H&K when durability and reliability are concerned.  Just not as popular....


I don't doubt the durability of an HK, but do you have any good data to back that claim up?


Federal Ammunition Company supposedly has over 297K on a single USP 45. This information was from an HK Armorer, or so the story goes. "A chat with an HK armorer," is the thread title on HK Pro. Really wish there was an actual article and specific data to go with it, but the couple of HK armorers I have spoken with claimed to never been sent a USP45 for repair. Still just hearsay, though.

Todd Green and Larry Vickers put 50K through an HK45, recorded on Pistol Training. If LAV swears by it and helped design it, I doubt it's junk.

I wouldn't doubt that USP made it to 300K and beyond. Those things are tanks, and the 45 ACP has a much lower chamber pressure than 9mm, let alone .40 cal.

OP, do you have any HK handguns for rental? How're they holding up?
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 6:56:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/3/2015 6:57:28 PM EST by Kristofer_G]
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Originally Posted By rb889:


Federal Ammunition Company supposedly has over 297K on a single USP 45. This information was from an HK Armorer, or so the story goes. "A chat with an HK armorer," is the thread title on HK Pro. Really wish there was an actual article and specific data to go with it, but the couple of HK armorers I have spoken with claimed to never been sent a USP45 for repair. Still just hearsay, though.

Todd Green and Larry Vickers put 50K through an HK45, recorded on Pistol Training. If LAV swears by it and helped design it, I doubt it's junk.

I wouldn't doubt that USP made it to 300K and beyond. Those things are tanks, and the 45 ACP has a much lower chamber pressure than 9mm, let alone .40 cal.

OP, do you have any HK handguns for rental? How're they holding up?
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Originally Posted By rb889:
Originally Posted By Dieselman:
Originally Posted By samuse:
Originally Posted By Spent_Casing:
Not surprised at all to see that the Glock is the most durable/reliable handgun at extreme round counts vs. the competition.

Seems to be a very common observation amongst people that get to be around guns that actually get used hard. ie: SMEs if you will.




Thanks for sharing your experiences OP. Keep it up, info like this is invaluable


Yeah no.   The top title would hands-down go to H&K when durability and reliability are concerned.  Just not as popular....


I don't doubt the durability of an HK, but do you have any good data to back that claim up?


Federal Ammunition Company supposedly has over 297K on a single USP 45. This information was from an HK Armorer, or so the story goes. "A chat with an HK armorer," is the thread title on HK Pro. Really wish there was an actual article and specific data to go with it, but the couple of HK armorers I have spoken with claimed to never been sent a USP45 for repair. Still just hearsay, though.

Todd Green and Larry Vickers put 50K through an HK45, recorded on Pistol Training. If LAV swears by it and helped design it, I doubt it's junk.

I wouldn't doubt that USP made it to 300K and beyond. Those things are tanks, and the 45 ACP has a much lower chamber pressure than 9mm, let alone .40 cal.

OP, do you have any HK handguns for rental? How're they holding up?


And Chuck Taylor has a GLOCK 17 with 300,000+ rounds through it.

And there are plenty of both brands kB'ed pistols to look at as well.

GLOCKs and HK USP (HK45 and P30 too) are on the extreme high end of long term service reliability and durability.

There is no meaningful difference to be found, simply each person's preference.
Link Posted: 7/4/2015 12:08:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/4/2015 12:19:38 PM EST by JJREA]
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Originally Posted By Rick_A:
So there's pics and talk of catastrophic Glock failures and folks are bashing cheap 1911's that may need some minor repair.

With recoil spring replacement at the appropriate intervals, and an eye on extractor tension, a properly made post war 1911 will last a long time. Extractor failures are quickly accelerated by dropping the slide on a chambered round. As others mentioned it's a wear item and may need adjustment on occasion, and replacement in time.

Anything fails with enough use.

Like any tool, use or abuse it enough and you'll break it.

Lots of service folks are bashing M9's lately as many are getting long in the tooth. Anything decent is great when new. Anything nearing the end of its service life can suck, especially when maintained only when broken.
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I totally agree.  I suppose in everyone's defense the OP did say the Glocks seem to be the one that breaks less.  I forget exactly what he sad.  But yeah I bet they don't see the slides break on 1911's.  Or maybe not.  I bet the frame and slide aren't really the problem on the 1911's.    But I didn't see anything from the OP or in this thread that made me think a 1911 sucks.   Although he did say they get marked for repair more often than others.  I like how the M9 even though not shot as much, seems to hold up well.  I love my M9.

I wonder if they have any M&P's?  I also wonder if they run any 125 grain .357's through any K frames.
Link Posted: 7/6/2015 11:33:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2015 11:34:34 AM EST by HendersonDefense]
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Originally Posted By rb889:

<snip>

OP, do you have any HK handguns for rental? How're they holding up?
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I really hate being like this but I don't put them on the range. You can call it pride or ego issue but I hate having to purchase something from a company that I feel looks down upon regular (non-LEO) sales. The company's attitude, in MY opinion, almost feels that the American shooter is a pain in the ass and "reluctantly" sells them to us. That's MY opinion after years and years of being a buyer (bought my first HK91 in 1987).

When I was running our retail gun store we could never get spare parts and all the LEO that would stop by said the same thing. Granted, we have approximately 20+ MP5's at the range but a majority of those are US-made copies and they continue to run nearly three years later.

We do have some of the Paki and Turkish MP5 semi-auto pistol clones and they also run fine.

I will eventually have to purchase some but like I said, it's just my ego/pride that feels if you're too good for the US market.. then you must to be good for our store


V/R
Ron
Link Posted: 7/6/2015 12:08:50 PM EST
I'm not a HK fan, but you also might take into account German export laws.  If you think California gun laws are bad, try exporting from Germany.  That said, they've had a long time to set up a factory here.  FN, Glock, etc...
Link Posted: 7/6/2015 1:20:40 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:


I really hate being like this but I don't put them on the range. You can call it pride or ego issue but I hate having to purchase something from a company that I feel looks down upon regular (non-LEO) sales. The company's attitude, in MY opinion, almost feels that the American shooter is a pain in the ass and "reluctantly" sells them to us. That's MY opinion after years and years of being a buyer (bought my first HK91 in 1987).

When I was running our retail gun store we could never get spare parts and all the LEO that would stop by said the same thing. Granted, we have approximately 20+ MP5's at the range but a majority of those are US-made copies and they continue to run nearly three years later.

We do have some of the Paki and Turkish MP5 semi-auto pistol clones and they also run fine.

I will eventually have to purchase some but like I said, it's just my ego/pride that feels if you're too good for the US market.. then you must to be good for our store


V/R
Ron
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By rb889:

<snip>

OP, do you have any HK handguns for rental? How're they holding up?


I really hate being like this but I don't put them on the range. You can call it pride or ego issue but I hate having to purchase something from a company that I feel looks down upon regular (non-LEO) sales. The company's attitude, in MY opinion, almost feels that the American shooter is a pain in the ass and "reluctantly" sells them to us. That's MY opinion after years and years of being a buyer (bought my first HK91 in 1987).

When I was running our retail gun store we could never get spare parts and all the LEO that would stop by said the same thing. Granted, we have approximately 20+ MP5's at the range but a majority of those are US-made copies and they continue to run nearly three years later.

We do have some of the Paki and Turkish MP5 semi-auto pistol clones and they also run fine.

I will eventually have to purchase some but like I said, it's just my ego/pride that feels if you're too good for the US market.. then you must to be good for our store


V/R
Ron


Parts in red kind of contradict. If LEO can't get shit either, how are they looking down upon non-LEO only?
Link Posted: 7/6/2015 1:31:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2015 1:32:28 PM EST by FALARAK]
Ron, great info here!

I only have one request.  DON'T LEAVE!!!

There will be shitheads that will give you shit over the smallest things, I just ask that you ignore them and know that for every turd response, there are hundreds of others who are very interested in your perspectives, experiences, and even biases.  

So please, don't let the tiny but loud few keep you from posting.  Your time is not wasted here.
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