Posted: 2/11/2010 5:03:42 PM EDT
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Yesterday a relative was handling my 1911 and allowed the slide to slam forward which caused the hammer to fall to half-cock. I've since done a little online reading about hammer follow and tried several methods mentioned for recreating the hammer follow and was unable to get the hammer to fall to half-cock. These methods include pushing upward/foward on the hammer in full cock and abrubtly pulling rearward on the slide (without allowing the slide to slam forward). However, I found that I was able to get the hammer to fall to half-cock by activating the grip safety and quickly pushing downward on the hammer. The best I can describe this action is that I grip the gun and use my other hand to sort of slap down on the hammer. I can recreate this action over and over again, each time getting the hammer to fall to half-cock.
All that being said, is there definitely an issue with my hammer to sear engagement or are there other possible issues at hand? The gun has had trigger work by a recommeded local smith and he does light jobs (3 to 3.5 lb range). Could this hammer follow I'm experiencing be normal with that light of a trigger pull? Also, I'm not much of a 1911 guru when it comes to the smithing aspect of the firearm. I recently detail stripped the gun to completely clean and re-oil the interior parts, could I have damaged something during this process or otherwise incorrectly assembled something? I have diagrams and videos and felt that detail stripping the gun was a fairly straight forward process. Thanks ahead for any help. |
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In the first place why are you trying to get it to fall to half cock? Are you trying to damage your sear?
What you are doing is illogical and it is like you are trying to break your pistol. Do full tear down look at your sear first make sure it is not messed up, do a safety check on your pistol, and then full reassemble. Then engage thumb safety pull trigger hammer should not fall. Disengage safety dry fire feel for gritty feeling. Next pull hammer back do not engage grip safety and pull trigger hammer should not fall. If all passes your pistol is fine. Then stop trying to destroy your pistol. |
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This is common when the slide is slammed forward with a limp wrest.
I have lightened triggers on my guns 2lb triggers and when I let others shoot them and they drop the slide with out holding the gun firmly, the hammer will drop to half cock not all the time but some times. I have had it looked at by a more experience gun smith than me , as I do most of all my own work , and have found the sear angle to hammer in line, I also checked the spring tension on the sear and disconector. most of the time I have found that the spring tension is all you need to adjust to stop this.. especially if your trigger is 3lbs and above.. |
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Quoted:
In the first place why are you trying to get it to fall to half cock? Are you trying to damage your sear? What you are doing is illogical and it is like you are trying to break your pistol. Do full tear down look at your sear first make sure it is not messed up, do a safety check on your pistol, and then full reassemble. Then engage thumb safety pull trigger hammer should not fall. Disengage safety dry fire feel for gritty feeling. Next pull hammer back do not engage grip safety and pull trigger hammer should not fall. If all passes your pistol is fine. Then stop trying to destroy your pistol. What I was doing was brief and completely logical. This gun is not a toy, but carried daily in my profession. If there is an issue with the sear/hammer engagement it must be determined quickly and repaired if necessary. I'm also completely aware of how to function check a pistol, and it passes all safety/function checks. All that being said, if the hammer can fall to half-cock once unintentionally, it can do so again during the cycling of the gun which could result in my demise should it occur when I need this gun to work. Now, step down from your pedestal and apply logic to your posts. |
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Having read this, I'm wondering if the sear spring tension could be an issue as well (or the source of the problem for that matter). Sounds like I need to visit my smith tomorrow to ensure that everything is functioning correctly. |
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Quoted:
Having read this, I'm wondering if the sear spring tension could be an issue as well (or the source of the problem for that matter). Sounds like I need to visit my smith tomorrow to ensure that everything is functioning correctly. Yes, it could well be. Part of getting a light trigger is reduction of tension on the sear leg of the sear spring. Sometimes this is overdone. |
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First I would have the local smith look at your pistol.
Some smiths adjust the hammer hook angle in the quest for a light trigger. This can be fine for target work at the range, but dangerous for street carry. I would not carry this pistol until this is resolved. I have made many triggers at 3-1/2 lbs. which will not fall/cannot fall with outside pressure. The sear is trapped by the hammer hook angle and the sear face primary angle. I suspect if you closely watch the hammer, as you slowly pull the trigger, it does not move rearward at all prior to falling. With a trapped sear as I described, the hammer will move very slightly rearward prior to falling. JMB Student |
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Quoted: It very often is. I have had the same problem as you a couple of times and it was a sear spring issue. Having read this, I'm wondering if the sear spring tension could be an issue as well (or the source of the problem for that matter). Sounds like I need to visit my smith tomorrow to ensure that everything is functioning correctly.  |
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I talked to my smith and he can't look at the gun until Tuesday afternoon. So I won't get a professional opinion until then. I pulled the gun apart to ensure that everything was put together correctly and then double checked it. Assembly was not the issue. I also allowed the slide to slam forward several times on an empty chamber (with and without the trigger pulled) and the hammer did NOT follow to half-cock. It seems the only time the issue would occur would be if the hammer was bounced towards the grip safety when in the full cock position.
I tried tensioning both the left and center sections of the sear spring but that did not resolve the issue. I didn't attempt to tension much though because most of what I read said only a slight adjustment usually resolves the problem should the sear spring be the source of the issue. How much should I be bending one or both of these leaf springs? I looked at the hammer and sear engagement and everything appears normal, but I don't have a magnifying glass or microscope to really look at the surfaces. It's almost as if the sear is able to bounce down and away from the hammer completely which would allow the hammer to move forward. However, it's not moving enough to clear the half-cock notch (at this point anyway) because the hammer has not fell completely a single time during the malfunctions. Is it possible that the sear or sear pin is worn just enough to allow the sear to slip free of the hammer? I also don't believe the issue to be occuring due to trigger bounce because the trigger is not in play during this malfunction and the gun is not being fired (the slide doesn't even have to move to recreate the malfunction) so there really isn't any energy at play on the frame itself. |
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Quoted:
Hopefully it turns out to be something simple the smith can fix. From what I recall you've been through the wringer with this one. Hopefully this will be the last of it. This is true. It's my first 1911 and I think in the 8 months or so that I've had it I've ran into 99% of the common problems to be had with the platform. That being said, I've shot and handled numerous pistols and the 1911 is definitely my favorite. |
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I spent a little while with the smith today and he looked the gun over. He was a little annoyed and said that some one had screwed with my hammer hooks. He pulled apart a few guns he had in the shop and showed me how my hammer should have looked when it left his place the first time. I didn't alter it and the gun has only been in the hands of one other person/smith since the original work. I can't imagine why the second smith would touch something I didn't ask him to touch, if this is the case.
Anyway, he did some filing on the hammer and sear and now the hammer no longer follows. I'm pretty sure he's being legit because he didn't charge me anything for the repair. While I was there I asked him about replacing my stock Springfield thumb safety with an Ed Brown tactical because I didn't like how wide mine was. I already handled a friends Special Forces and liked the safety. Anyway, he told me I didn't need a new safety and could just modify mine - so he did, and it came out great (minus the fact that it needs to be recoated to match the rest of the gun). I'm amazed at how quickly he was able to grind and file the safety to such an extent that it looked like it came from the factory thin. I also had him file the slide stop flush with the frame and then recess the frame around it. I'm not too concerned with the steel showing through because there was already several spots from previous work because I haven't made up my mind on what all I want and whether I want it melonited/ionbonded. I was thinking I was through with mods and was going to send it off to have it melonited but then he pulled out another gun he was working on where he had flattened the top of the slide and two other spots at the front of the slide which looked really cool. I guess I should save my money though, get the gun coated, and be done with it. |