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Posted: 9/10/2004 11:28:30 PM EST
What is everyone`s opinion on extended slide release levers on 1911? I heard that the normal length levers are prefered by combat shooters. I noticed that in the picture threads, there aren`t any extended levers.

I`m left-handed, so when I shoot 1911s I operate the slide release with my trigger finger. Would an extended lever benefit a lefty shooter?
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 11:30:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 11:48:38 PM EST
Im drunk right now, but extented slide releases are crap. pretend the slide release isnt there, and rack the slide with your hand, over the top of the slide, grab the slide by the serrations and rack the bitch!!! If you train like this, it wont matter what style slide release you have on your pistol (1911 or otherwise) because you wont be using it.

this isnt any new trend in training either, if you rely on your slide release lever during reloads, malfunctions, or whatever it will let you down when you need it the most. FINE MOTOR SKILLS are reduced/eliminated during stressful situations where lethal force may be necessary.

dont rely on that little tiny lever, rack the slide, and rack it violentley!!!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 11:49:13 PM EST
Yowza!

I had no idea that they were that bad. Thanks a bunch, Lumpy. You saved me big bucks!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 11:58:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By NickDrak:
Im drunk right now, but extented slide releases are crap. pretend the slide release isnt there, and rack the slide with your hand, over the top of the slide, grab the slide by the serrations and rack the bitch!!! If you train like this, it wont matter what style slide release you have on your pistol (1911 or otherwise) because you wont be using it.

this isnt any new trend in training either, if you rely on your slide release lever during reloads, malfunctions, or whatever it will let you down when you need it the most. FINE MOTOR SKILLS are reduced/eliminated during stressful situations where lethal force may be necessary.

dont rely on that little tiny lever, rack the slide, and rack it violentley!!!



I wouldn`t mind racking the slide, but I`m more comfortable with the lever. I have never heard of the lever failing. Could you please go on.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:11:17 AM EST
And what about extended mag releases? Should I avoid those like the plague?
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:13:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2004 12:15:19 AM EST by NickDrak]

Originally Posted By spork:
I wouldn`t mind racking the slide, but I`m more comfortable with the lever. I have never heard of the lever failing. Could you please go on.



FINE MOTOR SKILLS are diminished during a kill or be killed situation to the point that most humans stop breathing, cant hear, and get tunnel vision, and relying on small buttons and levers during your training could cost you your life in a actual life or death shooting situation.

If you rely on a firearm to protect your life, dont rely on your ability to locate and manipulate a slide relase lever during a life or death situation.

If you only practice racking the slide with your weak hand, the slide release lever becomes a non-issue. in other words...

YOU FIGHT LIKE YOU TRAIN, SO TRAIN LIKE YOU WILL FIGHT.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:16:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By spork:
And what about extended mag releases? Should I avoid those like the plague?



Yes, avoid them!
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:19:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2004 12:30:57 AM EST by NickDrak]
In my opinion, the best slide release lever out there is the Wilson combat "bullet proof". It eliminated the exact problem Lumpy describes in his post in my Kimber 1911. (Slide locking back with rounds stiil remaining in the magazine) It is a low profile design.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:19:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By NickDrak:

Originally Posted By spork:
And what about extended mag releases? Should I avoid those like the plague?



Yes, avoid them!



Okay, go on . . .
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:29:35 AM EST
Im going to sleep Sir, but I hope we helped you out. I doubt anyone who trains with their pistol on a regular basis will disagree with the theory I related.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:32:34 AM EST
Ah, I see.

Could you please tell me more about extended mag releases, and your Bullet Proof lever, at a later time?

Thank you, and goodnight.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:34:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2004 12:34:57 AM EST by NickDrak]
I will make sure to `try and elaborate later on today in PM. Good night.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:50:21 AM EST
Moses say No'ith.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:58:49 AM EST
First, to address spork's request for additional info on broken slide catches, I will say that I have personally seen several slide catch / releases break...two Glocks and several 1911's...the Glocks broke springs and the 1911's all had the little extension that goes inside the mag well break off. (Colt had a bad run of these during the early 1980's, but I have seen other brands do it as well). In addition, there are any number of reasons why an otherwise properly working slide catch / release may fail to lock the slide to the rear at some time or other...while not "common" with well maintained guns fed good ammo, it is not something you can stop to analyze in a fight. I happen to think that with the proliferation of Glock pistols...no flame there since I own six at this moment...the technique described by NickDrak is probably a good habit to cultivate if one shoots several different makes / models of handguns. I will admit, however, that I usually use the lever myself...habit.

Extended magazine releases also have their problems, as do weak mag release springs such as those used for several years by Sig and the even weaker ones used in the early runs of M39/59s by S&W. Extended buttons may be easier to reach, but that also makes them easier to unintentionally engage with ones grip, or by getting bumped hard on a car door, or maybe during a physical struggle preceeding use of a firearm. They can also create issues if the longer button causes the other side of the catch to run out farther from the frame when used. I have seen officers have problems with this using the extended Glock release buttons...the gun hand grip actually prevented the catch from releasing the mag with a couple whose hands were large enough that they could hit the button without shifting their grip on the gun. Like extended slide catches they can also snag on things if used on a CCW gun. Early M39 and 59's would sometimes allegedly release the mag from pressure from a seatbelt being tightened...most definitely NOT good with a gun using a magazine safety!

There is sometimes a tendency for all of us to think that because WE have used a particular modification, piece of gear, ammo, or whatever with no problems...usually only on the range and often then only for a few hundred or couple thousand rounds...it must be trouble free. It may, indeed cause no problems in that specific environment, yet be a major problem in other uses or situations. Guys like Lumpy, SGB and many others here know this. Like Will Rogers once said..."Everyone's ignorant... just on different subjects". The great thing about this board is that we can learn from one another...Helluva lot cheaper, too, I might add!
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 4:45:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 8:18:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:42:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2004 9:55:38 AM EST by NickDrak]
Spork,

The Wilson Bullet proof slide release is designed to avoid making contact with the bullet nose on some ammo, which will cause the lever to be prematurely bumped up by the round, locking the slide back unintentionally with rounds still remaining in the magazine. It worked wonders for my Kimber, but they aint cheap. (about $40) If you current set-up isnt causing any of the problems listed in the above posts, I suggest you leave it alone.

Another consideration is your grip. I use the "thumbs forward" grip and using a extended lever with this style grip could pose other issues as well. On 1911's and Glocks with Ext. levers, my thumb often makes contact with the lever, holding it down at times, causing the slide not to lock back on an empty magazine. This is probably a non-issue for lefties though.

My suggestion would be to train with the "over the top" rack of the slide, make it a habit by way of muscle memory, and your slide release issue will become a non-issue.

I also highly suggest that you attend a combat/close quarters pistol course put on by a reputable trainer. You will find during times when the speed/accuracy envelope is being pushed, it becomes harder and harder to work the control levers on your pistol, regardless of their size.

Nick.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 10:02:26 AM EST
I have a wilson extended slide stop on my 1911. My thumb is gimp and coudn't reach the stock one. I have no complaints, it works like it should.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 11:55:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By NickDrak:
Spork,

The Wilson Bullet proof slide release is designed to avoid making contact with the bullet nose on some ammo, which will cause the lever to be prematurely bumped up by the round, locking the slide back unintentionally with rounds still remaining in the magazine. It worked wonders for my Kimber, but they aint cheap. (about $40) If you current set-up isnt causing any of the problems listed in the above posts, I suggest you leave it alone.

Another consideration is your grip. I use the "thumbs forward" grip and using a extended lever with this style grip could pose other issues as well. On 1911's and Glocks with Ext. levers, my thumb often makes contact with the lever, holding it down at times, causing the slide not to lock back on an empty magazine. This is probably a non-issue for lefties though.

My suggestion would be to train with the "over the top" rack of the slide, make it a habit by way of muscle memory, and your slide release issue will become a non-issue.

I also highly suggest that you attend a combat/close quarters pistol course put on by a reputable trainer. You will find during times when the speed/accuracy envelope is being pushed, it becomes harder and harder to work the control levers on your pistol, regardless of their size.

Nick.



Thanks! This is great info. When I pick up my first 1911, all I would need to install is an ambi safety (being a lefty and all). And if the lever is causing problems, I`ll replace it with a Bullet Proof model.

Now that this has been settled, I would also like to know how you feel about mounting lights onto weapons.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:22:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2004 12:24:14 PM EST by NickDrak]

Originally Posted By spork:

Thanks! This is great info. When I pick up my first 1911, all I would need to install is an ambi safety (being a lefty and all). And if the lever is causing problems, I`ll replace it with a Bullet Proof model.

Now that this has been settled, I would also like to know how you feel about mounting lights onto weapons.



They are great. For home defense especially. On a carry gun I would recommend that you get a holster for your pistol dedicated for a weapon light. The reason for this is if you dont carry it installed on your pistol, and need to draw your pistol and install the light onto the pistol it poses acouple different problems:

1. another distraction which may cause you to take your eyes off of the target/threat, and in a stressful situation you do not want to be crossing your hand infront of your muzzle.

2. if you have the light mounted on your pistol, and need to reholster your weapon for any reason, you dont want to have to worry about removing the light before reholstering.

If you dont have a dedicated holster for a weapon mounted light, I suggest you carry a small flashlight in your weak side pocket to avoid any of the distractions mentioned.

On rifles and shotguns, weapon mounted lights are awesome, as long as they dont unbalance the weapon.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 1:18:26 PM EST
What about the issue of possibly covering someone with the muzzle while searching with the weaponlight?
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 2:00:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2004 2:01:43 PM EST by NickDrak]

Originally Posted By spork:
What about the issue of possibly covering someone with the muzzle while searching with the weaponlight?



Thats a valid concern. I dont use a weapon light on my pistols (on or off duty) but I have been considering the switch. I just dont like any of the currently availible holster designs.

The answer to your question varies with the situation. For me, I am confident in my gun handling skills and decision making that if I was using a weapon light on my pistol while doing a building search or the like, and spotted a non-threatening civilian with my light, (therefore pointing my pistol directly at them) I would not have my finger on the trigger unless I perceived a threat.

If you will be using it for home defense, and have children in your house it may be more of a concern.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 6:21:45 PM EST
That makes sense.

I want to at least have the option of mounting a light to the gun, but I will probably refrain from mounting the light in most situations. It won`t be a carry gun, so holster availability is not an issue.

Thank you very much for your help.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 8:49:55 PM EST
One other thing with the extended slide stop that can cause premature slide lock other than catching the added size on something is the extra weight of the larger stop.
If you use the slide lock as slide release spend time learning to shift your grip to use your thumb or to use the thumb of the support hand--dang, left handed--you still shouldn't have to shift too far using the trigger finger--but overall the universal method of the overhand slingshot is best.

On mag catches--the standard size shouldn't be too much of a problem using your trigger finger--you probably have an advantage over us righties using our thumbs--that said most makers offer a "tactical" mag catch, as is standard on Kimbers, that is only slightly extended but not enlarged which shouldn't pose too much of a problem with accidental release.

Since you're looking for a ambi-safety, check out those offered by King's and the new Kimber ambi which anchor on the hammer pin instead of under the grip--I believe these are stronger--there is reason they are used on the MEU(SOC) and MCSOCOM Det. 1 Kimber ICQB pistol.

Good luck,
Chad
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 12:35:17 PM EST
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