Posted: 10/13/2009 5:33:41 AM EDT
|
About 2 years ago I was beaten in Detroit to near death. Out of this situation they found out I have a benign tumor in my head behind my right eye. Obviously this changes the way I view my head getting hit with anything.
I am in no position to fight hand to hand though I would obviously if I had to. My question is with my condition, when is it ok for me to draw? I hear all the "dont draw unless your life is in danger" but I feel my life being in danger differs from the average joe due to my condition. I am in no position to take blows to the head in a fist fight anymore. Any insight on this? Thanks for any help on this guys... Bob |
|
Hate to hear about your beating
seems your physical condition makes your life more at risk than the average victim common sense indicates you should/could draw sooner (like an elderly or disadvantaged person could) don't know Michigan law It would help if you had some sort of documentation for your disability to show the authorities in a border line case something to consider |
|
Maybe not what you want to hear, but I just returned from Front Sight 4 day defensive handgun training. In my opinion, it is a world class facility and course and I believe part of their training would help you decide what is right for you. Then spend time on the moral and ethical ramifications of a shooting as well and the legal ramifications and spend a lot of time in what you cna experience if you have to draw.
Not a direct answer to your question, but personally I don't think I can get enough training and it would help YOU answer these questions for yourself. |
| OP: considering your medical condition, I'd say you'd be fine drawing to protect your life. As long as you can articulate that you felt like your life was in danger (which due to your med cond. its reasonable), than you SHOULD be ok. Thats basically how courts look at it. "What would reasonable person do in the same situation". |
|
Do you have doctors reports or diagnosis reports that would indicate your condition makes you more vulnerable physically? Even with a benign tumor, has it been medically shown that a blow to the head or some type of injury would make you more at risk for serious bodily injury or death than another person without your condition? These are just a couple of issues that come to mind.
For example, I'm 6'3" and around 225 pounds. My wife is 4'11" and not much more than 110 (I'm not allowed to know her exact weight  ). She would be justified in using deadly force sooner than I would, in a situation involving an unarmed attacker. A jury would take a look at petite her and see pretty quickly how she would feel in fear for her life. In other words, when it comes to the threat of or use of deadly force, there are a number of factors to consider.
Just my $.02. |
|
Quoted:
Maybe not what you want to hear, but I just returned from Front Sight 4 day defensive handgun training. In my opinion, it is a world class facility and course and I believe part of their training would help you decide what is right for you. Then spend time on the moral and ethical ramifications of a shooting as well and the legal ramifications and spend a lot of time in what you cna experience if you have to draw. Not a direct answer to your question, but personally I don't think I can get enough training and it would help YOU answer these questions for yourself. I am all for training and bettering yourself. But as I have lived and worked in NV for quite a while let me say that Front Sight has some issues. I have been NV national guard, as well as worked privately with a lot of people here. If you are looking for training or have any questions I would highly suggest VTI. Steve Baker who runs the place is amazing. http://www.vtiassociates.com is his site. The facility is amazing. As someone who has worked with a lot of these guys and been out in the field i'll tell you he is the guy to go to. And anything you want to know about firearms, the guy he kinda works with Matt Babb is truly a one of a kind guy who knows his stuff and truly is amazing. http://www.bentwoodgunsmithing.com As to the OP, if you are in fear of your life, and if that means drawing sooner to protect yourself you should be ok. Any time a firearm is involved there will be some sort of investigation, but if put in a court room and you have medical proof of your condition you should be fine. I would suggest though for a more clear answer either calling your local DA office or a lawyer who deals with gun related cases. |
|
Not to hijack this thread or anything....But can't anybody use deadly force if they believe their life is in danger or they believe serious bodily injury could occur? Example: you and your wife are walking down the street and a group of guys starts threatening you with no weapons but they still have their firsts? How do I know that they will only pummel me and stop when I am almost dead but not dead yet? How do I know they wont rape my wife? etc etc. I dont consider myself a very good fist fighter and my gun is going to come out in a situation like this. I dont know when they are going to stop.
...What would the law say in such a circumstance? |
|
Quoted: Not to hijack this thread or anything....But can't anybody use deadly force if they believe their life is in danger or they believe serious bodily injury could occur? Example: you and your wife are walking down the street and a group of guys starts threatening you with no weapons but they still have their firsts? How do I know that they will only pummel me and stop when I am almost dead but not dead yet? How do I know they wont rape my wife? etc etc. I don't consider myself a very good fist fighter and my gun is going to come out in a situation like this. I don't know when they are going to stop. ...What would the law say in such a circumstance? OH law says bad shoot in that situation. Verbal threats of violence don't justify lethal force. I'm still trying to figure out where KY stands on this issue. The OH attorney general puts out a little pamphlet with everything you need to know about ccw/self defense law but I can't find anything like that from the KY gov. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Intent Opportunity Ability (Jeporday) Not sure what you meant by this... I think that what Alphaghost was trying to say is that in most (if not all) states these are the factors that you must be able to clearly show were present in order to justify a response with deadly force. Intent = the person has displayed the desire to cause you. or another, death or grievous bodily harm. Opportunity (also called the means sometimes) = the attacker is armed, sufficiently larger/stronger than you, etc... Ability = Attacker is either able to deploy the means above (a man knife at 15ft is a threat, at 30 yds he is not) or close distance before you can evade (If you aren't in a state that has Castle Doctrine with no duty to retreat). Obviously there is more to it than this and I am not a lawyer, but this should get you started in the right direction. A good CCW class for your state would be less expensive than a trip to Gunsight and will address these questions better than I can. I hope this is helpful. |
|
You must remember if YOU have a gun any fight you have is a gun fight. In said fight you have the advantage of starting out with the gun. If your threat does not have a gun then thats its fault for goin to a gun fight with no gun. Also remember you do not know if the threat has a gun or not. My opinion (which dont mater its up to the court) is verbal threats followed by aggressive action or just aggressive action can get you killed.
ETA: I feel that this applies to everyone not just someone in your type of situation. However if I were in your situation I would draw sooner than I would not bein in that situation. |
|
Google the defense laws in your state, such as a search for "Michigan Self Defense Laws" usually you'll find a link to your state code. Verbal advise from anyone whether they are a DA or defense attorney is meaningless if it isn't consistent with state law. Most state codes don't offer degrees of applicability, ie a lesser threshold for self defense for elderly or people with medical conditions. The bottom line is that the use of any force to defend yourself, if it isn't consistent with the state law where the incident takes place will open you up to criminal or civil litigation. While your medical condition may be argued as a mitigating factor in a criminal or civil trial, if you act in a manner inconsistent with state law you may wind up in an expensive legal predicament, where your ability to prevail to will be dependant on the grand jury, DA, your defense attorney or a jury of people who may or may not be your peers.
I don't mean to pry into old wounds, but what were the circumstances that led to your near fatal beating? I ask because many years ago, when I was younger and full of piss and vinegar, I got into a physical fight with three other men, all of us were drunk. I got my assed kicked - broken nose, black eye, busted lip, bruises, etc. Not anything like a near fatal beating as I managed to maintain consciousness, etc. Luckily, I wasn't carrying a gun at the time, if I had been armed and decided to use the gun I would have wound up in a real predicament or possibly dead. Ie potential witnesses, even though they were a party to the beating I recieved likely would have had a much different version of events than my own muddled perception of what took place. All I know for certain is that I didn't start the fight, and I didn't finish it either. |