Posted: 5/26/2009 3:28:27 PM EDT
| I'm pretty sure I know what condition 1 is, but how many conditions are there? A 1911 with loaded chamber and safey on is in condition 1, right? What if the safety is switched off? What about a Glock, is that also condition 1? Please educate me. |
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For a 1911
Condition 1: Loaded, chambered, safety on. Condition 2: Loaded, chambered, hammer down. (stupid) Condition 3: Magazine inserted, chamber empty, hammer down. Condition 4: Completely unloaded, hammer down. I think Glock would be about the same except Condition 2 wouldn't apply. edited spellang |
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and then theirs condition zero chamber loaded, hammer back, safety off HA! YES! 
It's a loose term really, generally applied to a 1911. The 3 conditions, as it were, were definitions of how the pistol was being carried, as stated above. To me, "condition 1" for any weapon would mean that it's in a ready to fire state, ready to fight. For an AR, it's chambered, safety on. For a Glock, it's chambered. For a revolver, it's a loaded and indexed cylinder, etc. etc. |
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I've always wondered what you would call the "chambered" state of a Glock as it pertains to this system as well.
My thoughts on Cond 1 are that "safety on" means an external, user-actuated safety, like the 1911. The Glock doesn't have this. Cond 2 suggests that the pistol has been decocked on a chambered round, like a SIG P226. The act of shooting requires that the first trigger pull both cock and drop the hammer. Glocks are partially pre-cocked in their chambered and at rest state. So pulling the trigger on a chambered Glock cocks the striker the rest of the way and drops it. There is no hammer, but I can see where the Glock operation could be argued to work similar to Cond 2. "Cond 0" suggests a chambered round and no user-actuated safety on, like a 1911 without the safety on. All one has to do is pull the trigger to fire. I can also see where it could be argued that the Glock system most closely resembles firing from Cond 0. Obviously with Cond 3 and 4 we have no rounds in the chamber (or mag inserted for 4), so I will not discuss these. What say you guys? |
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I've always wondered what you would call the "chambered" state of a Glock as it pertains to this system as well. My thoughts on Cond 1 are that "safety on" means an external, user-actuated safety, like the 1911. The Glock doesn't have this. Cond 2 suggests that the pistol has been decocked on a chambered round, like a SIG P226. The act of shooting requires that the first trigger pull both cock and drop the hammer. Glocks are partially pre-cocked in their chambered and at rest state. So pulling the trigger on a chambered Glock cocks the striker the rest of the way and drops it. There is no hammer, but I can see where the Glock operation could be argued to work similar to Cond 2. "Cond 0" suggests a chambered round and no user-actuated safety on, like a 1911 without the safety on. All one has to do is pull the trigger to fire. I can also see where it could be argued that the Glock system most closely resembles firing from Cond 0. Obviously with Cond 3 and 4 we have no rounds in the chamber (or mag inserted for 4), so I will not discuss these. What say you guys? To the OP here's a reference for Jeff Cooper's conditions of readiness for the 1911 pistol. http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm To be nit picky, I'm conflicted on the the "safety off" part of condition 0. A cocked, loaded and "safety off" 1911 still has the grip safety that needs to be depressed in order to pull he trigger for a bang (unless if the gun has a malfunctioning grip safety). So for all the safties to truely be off, something needs to depress the 1911's grip safety (preferably your hand). On a similar note, a glock has the little trigger safety, which isn't much of a safety, because if anything pulls it back, the striker will fall if its cocked. I beleive condition 0 applies to glocks. To the OP, I don't think condition 1 is applicable to glocks, because, as Hero mentioned, glocks don't have safety switches/levers that prevent the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled. And i believe condition 2 doesn't apply to glocks, because I have no clue how a round can be chambered without the striker being cocked and ready to set the primer off. I don't think its possible to gently release the striker without firing a round in a glock. |
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To be nit picky, I'm conflicted on the the "safety off" part of condition 0. A cocked, loaded and "safety off" 1911 still has the grip safety that needs to be depressed in order to pull he trigger for a bang (unless if the gun has a malfunctioning grip safety). So for all the safties to truely be off, something needs to depress the 1911's grip safety (preferably your hand). On a similar note, a glock has the little trigger safety, which isn't much of a safety, because if anything pulls it back, the striker will fall if its cocked. I beleive condition 0 applies to glocks. To the OP, I don't think condition 1 is applicable to glocks, because, as Hero mentioned, glocks don't have safety switches/levers that prevent the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled. And i believe condition 2 doesn't apply to glocks, because I have no clue how a round can be chambered without the striker being cocked and ready to set the primer off. I don't think its possible to gently release the striker without firing a round in a glock. Red - I tend to agree with you here. I think they are much more representative of Condition 0 ready. Blue - From my readings, the striker is 1/3 of the way cocked (could be 2/3, something like that) when the pistol is at rest. When you pull the trigger, the rearward movement cocks the striker the rest of the way and then releases the striker toward the primer. I agree, though, that Condition 2 doesn't apply to Glocks as well as Condition 0 since you're not truly de-cocking a hammer to put the pistol at "rest". |
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Thanks all for the replies!
So as I understand it, the "condition" system is a contrivance of Jeff Cooper's which properly applies to 1911s only. However it can be loosely and subjectively applied to other types of weapons. What's interesting is that the condition of readiness of the 1911 in my safe isn't covered at all in his system. It's condition 3 except the hammer is cocked. I don't know why you would lower the hammer. |
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Thanks all for the replies! So as I understand it, the "condition" system is a contrivance of Jeff Cooper's which properly applies to 1911s only. However it can be loosely and subjectively applied to other types of weapons. What's interesting is that the condition of readiness of the 1911 in my safe isn't covered at all in his system. It's condition 3 except the hammer is cocked. I don't know why you would lower the hammer. Well, you should probably drop the hammer then. This way you 'know' it needs to be racked if you grab it for an intruder... having 1911 cocked n locked, but un chambered/loaded seems odd, because it allows for the mistaking it for ready if need be, |
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For the person that said it is safer than a Glock, is that only cause you wish to have a manual saftey? Actually, I said that a 1911 with the thumb safety off, was still safer than a Glock. This is because the 1911 has a grip safety. If something gets caught in the trigger guard the Glock can go off, the 1911 can go off only if it is held properly, or the grip safety is otherwise depressed. Regardless, the "condition codes" were only meant to apply to a 1911 or other single action firearm. |
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and then theirs condition zero chamber loaded, hammer back, safety off 
I don't carry that way, but I might if I were left handed. It's still safer than a Glock.  Using a right handed 1911 with your left hand, and carrying it in condition 1 is quite simple, and safe. Though the best solution is to get a left handed 1911. |
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and then theirs condition zero chamber loaded, hammer back, safety off
Condition -1: Chamber loaded, hammer back, safety off, grip safety taped down! 
Condition -2: Chamber loaded, hammer back, safety off, grip safety taped down! , finger on the Trigger 
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