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Posted: 10/20/2006 10:36:27 AM EST
Howdy all,

I was wondering if any of you had more information concerning the unbelievably difficult procedure on carrying concealed with an UNRESTRICTED license in NY State. I have returned from active duty, and as much as I would say "Fuck it, I'm moving to Texas" (or Florida or damn near anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon besides Maryland), this is my home. I grew up here, and even though we elect communist Senators and have the harshest tax environment in the country, this is still my home... I can't lift my 200 acres where my 33 year naval veteran grandfather is buried and move it south to a friendlier state.

Now that I'm off active duty, I have taken to wanting to carry concealed, but if any of you are NY residents, you know full well the difficulties if you live in the "wrong" county. Here in NY, we have the racist Sullivan Act; around since 1911 to give local jurisdictions the final say in the issuance of a state licenses so that back then, no Jew or Italian would ever have "just cause" to carry a firearm. I urge you all to read the excellent Suzanne Novak article, "WHY THE NEW YORK STATE SYSTEM FOR OBTAINING A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED WEAPON IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL" from the Fordham University Law School.

<http://www.nysrpa.org/novak.pdf>

Here in Broome County, the county judge oversees all pistol permit issuances, and he can "amend" a state conceal-carry (all posession licenses in NY are either premises or concealed-carry). 'Round here, we have the extremely liberal Judge Matthews, who has not issued a non-amended CC license to anyone, including cops who wish to carry a non-issue weapon while off-duty, or our local state assemblyman Bob Warner. What's funny is that in neighboring Tioga county, the judge will pass every license as unrestricted when the background check clears. I could have "changed my address," but then I'd be in violation of my license if I lived in Broome County.... NY is very clever. So, right now I have a "Travel to and from hunting and target shooting activities" license.

From what I've read, because of the vagueness and arbitrary nature of how one is to "travel" to and from the hunting or target practicing activities, you can not be prosecuted for carrying your weapon while making a few "stops" in-between (that may last a few months) your range visits. What can happen, however, is the officer who finds you carrying outside the restrictions of your license can file a statement to the issuing officer (the judge... Mr. Matthews), and he can pull your license. Any thoughts on this? Any fellas out there who carry in NY? What are your experiences?

Not that I can start carrying right now anyway...I just purchased my first pistol: Ruger P90. It's not exactly a carry-friendly machine.

After reading the Novak article, doesn't it seem that this law could be challenged in the NY court system (which will defend it) and then travel on to district and (possibly) supreme court levels? Hey, if a dumb broad like Anna Nicole Smith can make it into the Supreme Court, surely I have a small chance in hell. Now that the dubya has shaped the court with individuals who actually have some appreciation for the Constitution, such a case would probably have a fighting chance if it ever made it into the court.

How would a group of New Yorkers go about starting the process. I'm a Marine, and I like fighting uphill battles with communists. It's what we do.

Cheers everyone.

"Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any America because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us. They can't get away this time."

- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC
Link Posted: 10/20/2006 11:03:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2006 12:18:15 PM EST by GunnyG]
Look at www.scopeny.org/. Along with the NYSRPA, they're probably the most visible political gun rights organization I've seen in my part of NY.

The guy who runs www.ocshooters.com/ has a lot of good info, and may be able to point you in the right direction for your area.

As for myself, I'm almost done here. I'm heading home to Washington State next June. The Orange County Pistol Permit bureau will likely breathe a sigh of relief when I 'm gone.

Semper Fi & good luck!

Link Posted: 10/20/2006 6:53:08 PM EST
The only solution that I found for myself after 35yrs in NYC was to move to PA. The closest non facist state to you.
Link Posted: 10/21/2006 2:20:13 PM EST
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The only solution that I found for myself after 35yrs in NYC was to move to PA. The closest non facist state to you.


That may not last too much longer. Another term for Rendell and we'll be shit up a creek without a paddle.


As for your question about unrestricted carrying. There are no carry restrictions from what I understand. You can't be convicted of anything if you are carrying outside what the scope of your permit says. You can be charged, but not within the law can you be convicted (hopefully). The county could put "you can only shoot white people in self-defense." It's irrelevant. They can't charge you for shooting a black person in self defense.

Simply put:

There is no law you would be violating if you carry outside the scope of the permit. It WILL be revoked if you are caught, but you CANNOT (legally) be charged.
Link Posted: 10/21/2006 5:32:37 PM EST
> There is no law you would be violating if you carry outside the scope of the permit. It WILL be revoked if you are caught, but you CANNOT (legally) be charged.

Yeah, that's what I've come to understand about the NY law. Although my chances of ever being assaulted are low, I HAVE had attempts made on me in the past (once while I was on my motorcycle... luckily for him (and his buddy) he did so in NY and I was not carrying at the time). These guys wanted to do me some serious harm all for yelling "hey watch the hell where you're going!" when he nearly ran me off the road. I know that it's only acceptable to display a firearm when the situation has arisen where it is legal to use force, but I have a sinking suspicion that in the 1 to 2 seconds from me reaching into my pants and then drawing forth a .45" diameter tube, most assailants will have a DRAMATIC change of heart. If so, good on him, and "the tube" shall return to its holster nearly as rapidly as it was drawn.

It's a bloody shame that here in NY one has to rely on legal loopholes of unconstitutional laws in order to exercise one's rights.
Link Posted: 10/22/2006 4:14:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2006 4:15:46 AM EST by Parrot32]

Originally Posted By Huckleberry:
> There is no law you would be violating if you carry outside the scope of the permit. It WILL be revoked if you are caught, but you CANNOT (legally) be charged.

Yeah, that's what I've come to understand about the NY law. Although my chances of ever being assaulted are low, I HAVE had attempts made on me in the past (once while I was on my motorcycle... luckily for him (and his buddy) he did so in NY and I was not carrying at the time). These guys wanted to do me some serious harm all for yelling "hey watch the hell where you're going!" when he nearly ran me off the road. I know that it's only acceptable to display a firearm when the situation has arisen where it is legal to use force, but I have a sinking suspicion that in the 1 to 2 seconds from me reaching into my pants and then drawing forth a .45" diameter tube, most assailants will have a DRAMATIC change of heart. If so, good on him, and "the tube" shall return to its holster nearly as rapidly as it was drawn.

It's a bloody shame that here in NY one has to rely on legal loopholes of unconstitutional laws in order to exercise one's rights.

If that is your best example of a reason to carry, then I would think the strict CCW laws would be justified in your case…

Now don't take that too seriously because I was not there and I am sure you just gave a very brief description.

But none of this changes the situation in NY and I hope you good folks can get this turned around.
Link Posted: 10/22/2006 7:07:22 AM EST
Really the most effective way I would think, is to get a permit. If for any reason the permit gets pulled then go from there. Especially if you get charged, that would make your day even better. Call the NRA for a referral and go from there. If you were charged, you could easily get the law overturned. If your permit was just yanked though, I'm not exactly what the process is, but get an attorney anyways. I know in PA if its yanked it gets sent to Harrisburg and you have to appeal it.

The only way to overturn a law, is to get charged with breaking it, and then fight it in court. Hell if you would get charged with breaking it, call up Fordham, they have one hell of a law school. If you get a permit and never get charged with breaking the "special restrictions" on it then your golden. Pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourself for outsmarting a communist regime, oh and keep paying the highest tax rate in the nation lol
Link Posted: 10/22/2006 10:28:30 AM EST
"How would a group of New Yorkers go about starting the process. I'm a Marine, and I like fighting uphill battles with communists. It's what we do."

I love that line.
My understanding of the law is the same as that posted by the others. It is a non prosecutable offense. Besides they can take your license for anything. If it is a good shoot, it's a good shoot, if it's bad.... You are SOL anyhow.
Link Posted: 10/23/2006 5:19:57 PM EST
Yes it was a very brief description... what I failed to mention in my posts is that they chased me through town while I was on my motorcycle, forcing me to run red lights to flee them while having a 911 cell call stuck into my helmet (effectively blocking the view from my right eye. If I stopped further down the road, they would jump out of their vehicle and run after me, forcing me to pop the clutch and rocket the hell out of there. One of the individuals had a baseball bat. After EIGHT minutes of giving the 911 dispatch my location, a city patrol car arrived.

So... my apologies for not fully describing the situation. If being chased down by an adult male with a baseball bat is not reason to carry concealed, I don't know what is.

Maybe he was just trying to scare me.

Oh yeah... that eight minutes was on Main Street in my town... lots of traffic, and lots of police presence.

Go sit down sometime without a thug with a baseball bat running toward you and watch eight minutes pass on your watch.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 2:24:46 AM EST
Huckleberry: Well that is why I tried to 'temper' my harsh words! You were defiantly in a bad situation and I am glad you got out in one piece!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:51:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 3:52:17 PM EST by maddog_enigma]
Huckleberry, I'm with you all the way on this. It absolutely infurates me to look at my pistol license and see "Target, Hunting, Hiking, Camping and Fishing" on it. If there were anything I thought we could do I would do it. But the corrupt system is against us (judges ruling in favor of judges).

By the way, GunnyG I'm in Orange also. Do you shoot at MC in Monroe ever?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 4:04:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 4:24:31 PM EST by GunnyG]

Originally Posted By maddog_enigma:
Huckleberry, I'm with you all the way on this. It absolutely infurates me to look at my pistol license and see "Target, Hunting, Hiking, Camping and Fishing" on it. If there were anything I thought we could do I would do it. But the corrupt system is against us (judges ruling in favor of judges).

By the way, GunnyG I'm in Orange also. Do you shoot at MC in Monroe ever?


I've been to Master Class a few times...they have a few thousand of my hard(ly) earned dollars too!! But I usually shoot on Blackrock F&G's outdoor ranges, since I'm a member there.
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