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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/6/2005 7:17:25 PM EDT
Hello all, could someone please tell me where I can order a 3.5 Trigger assy for my Glock 19. Thank you.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 7:34:47 PM EDT
You can order the 3.5# connector from Glockmeister, Lone Wolf Dist and many others on the web. You can get the one made by Glock or the ones made by Scherer and Ghost.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 9:32:50 PM EDT
I like the Scherer a little better then the factory as it does not feel as mushy...
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 11:47:28 AM EDT
If you plan to carry or have your G19 for home protection DO NOT put any aftermarket parts in your gun.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:47:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By nsabjg:
If you plan to carry or have your G19 for home protection DO NOT put any aftermarket parts in your gun.[/quote

A very +1 on that, you WILL have an AD
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:07:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hydroshok:
Originally Posted By nsabjg:
If you plan to carry or have your G19 for home protection DO NOT put any aftermarket parts in your gun.[/quote

A very +1 on that, you WILL have an AD




Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:45:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hydroshok:
Originally Posted By nsabjg:
If you plan to carry or have your G19 for home protection DO NOT put any aftermarket parts in your gun.[/quote

A very +1 on that, you WILL have an AD



How does one have an AD/ND without pulling the trigger?

It seems to me that whether you have a 1# trigger or a 12# trigger is a non-issue so long as proper trigger discipline is observed.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:52:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:

Originally Posted By hydroshok:
Originally Posted By nsabjg:
If you plan to carry or have your G19 for home protection DO NOT put any aftermarket parts in your gun.[/quote

A very +1 on that, you WILL have an AD



How does one have an AD/ND without pulling the trigger?

It seems to me that whether you have a 1# trigger or a 12# trigger is a non-issue so long as proper trigger discipline is observed.



What he said....
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:43:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nsabjg:
...................... DO NOT put any aftermarket parts in your gun.



Problem, Glock don't make ammo
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 12:12:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 12:14:17 AM EDT by clubsoda22]
big +1 on not dicking with perfection. If you have night sights, there is nothing to add to your glock that will make it any better.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:56:02 AM EDT
+1 on no 3.5# trigger for carry/home defense gun.

light trigger and lack of external safety doesn't go well Keep it stock.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:29:50 AM EDT
No aftermarket parts in any gun for legal issues, not from the standpoint of saftey for the shooter. My night sights were even installed by Glock. Keep all personal protection guns stock.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:07:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Graziani:
+1 on no 3.5# trigger for carry/home defense gun.

light trigger and lack of external safety doesn't go well Keep it stock.



I honestly don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I still have no idea where this mentality is coming f rom.

How, exactly, does a lighter weight (and smoother) trigger + lack of an external mechanical safety = AD/ND?

I can understand an argument against it for civil liability or reliability, but this whole AD/ND thing is positively ridiculous.

Barring a broken firearm or poor design, this is a simple and unchanging truth:

If you do not pull the trigger, it will not fire.

1# or 12#: it doesn't matter if you're doing your part.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:15:32 PM EDT
Get the 3.5 for your carry peice, ads happen when your finger accidently pulls the trigger. If you can't draw without firing in the process, carry pepper spray.

I don't know who started the "no aftermarket parts on ccw/home defense", very stupid, carry what makes you perform best to minimize chances of damage to something that isn't your target.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 11:26:22 AM EDT
No mods on a ccw is not for AD's, a lighter trigger on a gun may be used in court to say that it was an unsafe (even if it was safe, or made it safer) it is one of the things that are used to sway the jury one way or the other. There are many non gun owners, and some gun owners that do not understand about guns or ammo. I have never had a AD even with a set trigger. And for you that say pull the trigger don't pull squeeze, mybe that is why there are AD's.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:13:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nsabjg:
No mods on a ccw is not for AD's, a lighter trigger on a gun may be used in court to say that it was an unsafe (even if it was safe, or made it safer) it is one of the things that are used to sway the jury one way or the other. There are many non gun owners, and some gun owners that do not understand about guns or ammo. I have never had a AD even with a set trigger. And for you that say pull the trigger don't pull squeeze, mybe that is why there are AD's.





Can you site a legal precedent for that?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 1:10:24 PM EDT
How would they know you have a 3.5 # connector?

IIRC adding a 3.5# connector in a stock trigger assy makes the trigger pull around 4.5 lb. Stock is supposed to be rated 5.5 lb - 6 lb.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 1:40:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
How would they know you have a 3.5 # connector?





Link Posted: 8/9/2005 1:48:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By anomad:

Originally Posted By nsabjg:
No mods on a ccw is not for AD's, a lighter trigger on a gun may be used in court to say that it was an unsafe (even if it was safe, or made it safer) it is one of the things that are used to sway the jury one way or the other. There are many non gun owners, and some gun owners that do not understand about guns or ammo. I have never had a AD even with a set trigger. And for you that say pull the trigger don't pull squeeze, mybe that is why there are AD's.



Can you site a legal precedent for that?



+1

As has been said regarding the safety, if you put your finger on the trigger before you're ready to destroy something in your sight picture, you're an idiot.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:19:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 6:28:25 PM EDT by hydroshok]

Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By hydroshok:
Originally Posted By nsabjg:
If you plan to carry or have your G19 for home protection DO NOT put any aftermarket parts in your gun.[/quote

A very +1 on that, you WILL have an AD



Shit happens in a split second, you have an altercation , trigger disipline will be the last thing on your mind and what happens if you accidentaly blast some unarmed scumbag ?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:39:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hydroshok:

Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By hydroshok:
Originally Posted By nsabjg:
If you plan to carry or have your G19 for home protection DO NOT put any aftermarket parts in your gun.[/quote

A very +1 on that, you WILL have an AD



Shit happens in a split second, you have an altercation , trigger disipline will be the last thing on your mind and what happens if you accidentaly blast some unarmed scumbag ?



This is why we train, so trigger discipline doesn't have to be "on our minds". If someone is really that stressed out that they're fingering the trigger, do you think that 5.5 lb vs 3.5 lb is going to matter? If you're ham-fisting it, you're ham-fisting it, and you'll probably pull an 8.5 lb just as easy.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:53:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 8:59:23 PM EDT by StealthyBlagga]
This has nothing to do with safety (these connectors are quite safe) and everything to do with exposure in court. Sure, the chances are that an opposing attorney will not know that the pistol had been modified. However, he might, or the local police armorer might notice.

When he has you on the stand and asks "has this pistol been modified in any way", what are you going to say ? Are you willing to perjur yourself by saying "No" ? What do you think he'll do when you explain that the trigger has been lightened, and (worse - shock, horror) you did the modification yourself on your kitchen table ? I bet it will go something like this:

[ambulancechaser]"You mean to tell me, Mr.Arfcommer, that despite having no formal qualification as a gunsmith, you installed a hair trigger in it ? Don't you think that might have been a little... negligent ?"[/ambulancechaser]

Not worth it dude. The light connector does not even make that big of a difference in practical shootability anyway. Both of my Glocks have absolutely stock internals, and even factory night sights. My IPSC match gun has a super-light trigger, but its not a Glock. If your gun will never have a chance of being used for self-defense, then go ahead and modify the trigger all you want, but otherwise leave it alone and learn to shoot it as it is.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 1:01:57 AM EDT
The county prosecutors that ran for office were both pro-shall issue CCW (dem and repub agreeing on something, the repub being pro-assault weapons, and the demo anti-assault weapons, the dem won), and my county is known to be pro-handgun. Does that change anything?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:50:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By hydroshok:

Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By hydroshok:
Originally Posted By nsabjg:
If you plan to carry or have your G19 for home protection DO NOT put any aftermarket parts in your gun.[/quote

A very +1 on that, you WILL have an AD



Shit happens in a split second, you have an altercation , trigger disipline will be the last thing on your mind and what happens if you accidentaly blast some unarmed scumbag ?



This is why we train, so trigger discipline doesn't have to be "on our minds". If someone is really that stressed out that they're fingering the trigger, do you think that 5.5 lb vs 3.5 lb is going to matter? If you're ham-fisting it, you're ham-fisting it, and you'll probably pull an 8.5 lb just as easy.



Very true, but how many people train and train and are ready to pass the big test without killing themselves or an innocent bystander ?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:20:00 AM EDT
So heaven forbid you use a bone stock Glock 17L, 24, 34 or 35 (all come with 3.5lb connectors from the factory). Since these Glocks apparently have a 'hair triggers'.

Below is from:
www.ghostinc.com/category/1triggerweight/

Trigger Pull: Light is Right

By: Arthur J. Viani

I am the owner of Ghost Inc. I invented, manufacture and sell the Ghost Rocket, Ghost Tactical, Ghost Trigger, Ghost Ranger, Ghost Patrol and Ghost Ultimate. These trigger connectors improve the Glock OEM triggers by eliminating trigger over-travel and debris from the trigger mechanism. The benefit of a Ghost trigger is significantly enhanced trigger efficiency and reliability.

If your intention is to hit where you are aiming your Glock, and if accuracy and speed are an issue, a smooth lighter Ghost trigger in the 3.5 to 5.5 lb. range with little or no trigger over-travel is the best trigger to have in your pistol.

The main purpose of a defensive pistol is to shoot those things that endanger you and others!

I am frequently asked by Glock shooters what is the proper/best trigger pull weight for their Glocks. What is the difference between a trigger for target and one for self defense? This subject is hotly debated, argued and is rife with contradictions. The first thing I must make clear is that my position is based on an assumption that you are a safe law abiding shooter. That is, you will keep your finger off the trigger until you are absolutely positive that you must immediately fire! Practice and preach this or suffer the consequences. You will not point your firearm at anything unless you are: one, legally justified to do so; and two, you are willing to damage it severely or destroy it.

Finger off the trigger until you must immediately fire!

The status quo: "Lighter is better for target and heavier is better for self defense." Let's examine these. Lighter is better for target shooting because you are seeking the most efficient trigger pull to enhance your ability to shoot precisely. Consider "lighter" to be read as 3.5-5.5 lbs.. Lighter triggers make it easier to place your shot. This is simple physics. You are attempting to steady an object that weighs a little less than two pounds while you are simultaneously exerting up to 12 lbs. of force against the trigger. Once the sights are aligned, a lighter trigger pull will cause the pistol to move less before the bullet exist the barrel.

The lighter the trigger pull the less the pistol moves when the trigger is pulled!

The lighter the trigger pull weight the less the muzzle will move as you pull the trigger through to fire the pistol. The pistol will move less because of the weight you exert on the trigger is less, regardless of how fast you pull the trigger. So why is light good for target but bad for self defense? Are we not seeking efficiency? Why is efficiency in punching paper more important than wining a gunfight or our survival? Pistols are defensive weapons when used by law abiding persons. You are reacting to the actions of another or others which you believe rises to the level of justifying you to use force, deadly or otherwise. One-the actions of these individuals justify the use of your pistol to defend yourself! Two-you are playing catch up because you are reacting defensively (vs.-offensively)-and you want a heavy inefficient trigger pull because you are afraid of being sued? You are willing to cede your life because of civil liability!

The trigger is the heart of any pistol. Get a good one!

I say "heavy inefficient trigger pull", why? What is my definition of heavy? Anything above 7 lbs. What is inefficient? A trigger with excessive movement to fire the pistol for the first shot and excessive movement to reset the trigger for subsequent shots. We are told the concept of hitting things with bullets is to place your primary focus on the front sight of the pistol and not trigger manipulation. Once you have decided something needs to be shot to save your life or another persons life you have to place a bullet or bullets into another living thing. You must put your front sight on the object where you intend to deliver your ballistic energy. Now if you have a heavy trigger pull weight in your pistol you realize how much concentration it takes to shoot well with this heavy trigger. But wait a minute the experts tell us that under the stresses of a gunfight concentration will be difficult for most and impossible for some. Now knowing your trigger pull is heavy and concentration on your sights is going to be difficult you will focus on pulling the trigger. How will you pull the trigger? Very rapidly because your already playing catch up and you know from your training that the trigger offers allot of resistance and it is difficult under the best of circumstances to shoot well. You will not focus on the front sight because your mind is screaming shoot now launch some lead! The heavier the trigger pull the more pressure will be applied to the trigger and subsequently to the pistol and this pressure will cause the muzzle to move off the line of sight when you exert this much pressure to pull the trigger. How is this possible? It that physics thing again. Your pistol weighs almost two pounds you are trying to steady it while rapidly maybe even violently applying up to six times its weight (depending on the trigger pull weight) to pull the trigger, this will likely cause the muzzle to move and the bullet(s) to strike off the intended target. I said the primary focus should be on the front sight. But it is difficult to do this when we realize how critical trigger manipulation is. The fact of the matter is of the two fundamentals sight alignment and trigger pull-trigger pull is more critical to insuring hitting what you aim or point at! If you miss-align your sights even out to seven yards you still hit within six inches of where the pistol was aimed. If you jerk the trigger the shot will go low by a few feet and possibly miss all together. Feet or inches I would choose inches. Using or issuing a pistol with a heavy trigger pull is a perceived low cost solution to training and avoiding liability. Because "how could they pull the trigger negligently with a heavy trigger pull?" but the inverse is true. The heavier trigger pulls leads to the shooter "prepping the trigger"-that is placing your finger on the trigger in preparation to firing your shot and moving the trigger to the rear to take out the slack or the excess front end movement of the trigger right before it releases the firing pin. Prepping the trigger or placing your finger in the trigger housing prior to actually firing the pistol is negligent! Remember-you will keep your finger off the trigger until you are absolutely positive that you must immediately fire! Practice and preach this or suffer the consequences! The mindset that some people express to me and much too often for my comfort is that "I like a heavy trigger because I can put my finger on the trigger and prep it by feel so that when covering a suspect/subject/intruder etc. if they move I can react and shoot them before they shoot me!"

The heavier the trigger the more likely the shooter will prep the trigger for a perceived advantage!

Think about this. The experts say that your body will go through several changes when involved in a critical incident and or a gunfight. Some of changes they state will occur are that you will lose the ability to perform a fine motor skill (i.e. precise trigger manipulation), tactile sensation (the ability to feel with your finger tips) and your body will operate with gross motor movement. According to the experts, you will not be capable of; pulling the trigger precisely you will pull the trigger and fire the pistol when you place your finger on the trigger!

Wait-if you can't feel the trigger or its pull weight and your going to pull hard what difference does trigger pull weight make?

So why do you need a heavier trigger pull when you will not be capable of feeling or sensing this heavier trigger weight? What I have been told by various firearms instructors is they think "Heavier" is safer, politically correct and because the cost of teaching people to shoot effectively is cost prohibitive. But we know that the argument of heavier equals safer is not true, because people will place their trigger finger on the trigger to prep the triggers to gain a perceived edge. We know that once you place your finger on the trigger under stress you will very likely fire your pistol regardless of trigger weight!

So then why does the trigger pull weight make a difference? Here's why. Because under stress the trigger pull weight becomes either an asset or a liability. The heavier the trigger pull weight the more the pistol will move-liability! The more movement the more you will miss! The lighter the trigger pull weight the less the pistol will move and the greater the odds your bullet will go where you want it-asset!! This means that a lighter trigger means more hits!

Under stress you will not feel the trigger or its weight!

What do the numbers say about trigger pull weights and hit ratios in actual gunfights?

-New York City Police Department (N.Y.P.D.) Glocks with 12 lb. triggers 15% hit ratio*.

-Los Angeles County Sheriff Department (L.A.C.S.D.) Double/Single Action trigger, first shot double action approx. 12 lb. double action subsequent single action shots approx 5 lb. trigger pull weight 51% hit ratio*

* SPECIAL REPORT: FIREARMS, Aveni, Thomas; Law and Order, Vol. 51, No.8 August 2003

Just to give you some insight into the importance of a good trigger and good trigger manipulation (a good trigger being a smooth light consistent pull with little or no trigger over-travel-my definition)

The FBI's Firearms Training Unit wrote a manual entitled; Advanced Firearms Instructional Techniques, January 1999, they dedicate seven (7) pages to sight alignment issues and thirteen (13) to trigger control. Why are more pages dedicated to trigger pull than to sight alignment? Reason, if you can't control and manipulate the trigger effectively you will not hit things that are trying to hurt you. The FBI issues their Glock pistols with 5.5 lb. trigger connectors! They determined that anything heavier resulted in poor performance by their agents during stressful shooting conditions!

If heavier is safer or better, then why don't all firearms have heavier triggers?

The single action (read this as lightweight triggers) 12 gauge pump action shotguns, 5.56mm AR-15 series of rifles and various submachine guns have trigger pull weights ranging from 2.5 lbs to 6 lbs. Why do these weapons which deliver a greater ballistic payload not merit 25 lb. triggers if the real concern is avoiding civil liability? I believe this is a contradiction!

Let's see, you use a double action pistol with a 12 lb. trigger pull but you have a shotgun, assault rifle or submachine gun with a 3 lb. trigger. More power, lighter trigger! "Yes, but when you need a shotgun, assault rifle or submachine gun it's really bad." So using this logic, if someone is only trying to kill you with a pistol, knife or bat that's not so bad and you should use the under powered pistol with a heavy and inefficient trigger pull that is difficult to shoot well? Not if you want to live!

Proper TRAINING insures firearms safety not increasing the trigger pull weight!

Again, if your intention is to hit where you are aiming your Glock, and if accuracy and speed are an issue, a smooth lighter Ghost trigger in the 3.5 to 5.5 lb. range with little or no trigger over-travel is the best trigger to have in your pistol. I addressed the lighter is better point now I'll define trigger over-travel. What is trigger over-travel? It is the excessive rearward movement of the trigger after the firing pin has been released by the sear to fire the pistol. Why is limiting or stopping over-travel important? Very simply to stop pistol movement while the bullet is in the barrel. You need to do this to insure the pistol stays aligned with the target and the bullet goes where it was aimed. Eliminating trigger over-travel is so critical to precise shot placement that all target rifles / pistols, sniper rifles and expensive self defense pistols have trigger over-travel systems incorporated in their designs. If the worlds best shooters demand these systems to insure their success and survival so should you.

The Glock semi-automatic pistol as designed has excessive movement and trigger over-travel. I believe this was done to simplify the manufacturing of the pistol and from a manufacturers stand point it was brilliant. Mr. Glock makes a pistol where all parts will interchange between like models without the required fitting that is common to all other handgun designs. But because these same tolerances make the Glock so easy to manufacture it results in a very sloppy trigger pull. We already know that the trigger is the heart of any pistol This where the Ghost triggers come in. Our patented Rocket & Tactical triggers eliminate trigger over-travel our Ultimate, Ranger and Patrol increases the reliability of the triggers and pistol. How the Rocket & Tactical use the patented Trigger Control Tabs which are fitted to the pistol eliminating trigger over-travel. These trigger connectors stop trigger movement at the instant of firing resulting in precise bullet placement. The Ultimate, Ranger & Patrol utilize the patent pending Debris Channel. This debris channel is a hole manufactured into the trigger connector that removes debris or any foreign matter from the trigger system making the Glock trigger mechanism more reliable.

Keep your finger off the trigger until you are absolutely positive that you must immediately fire! Practice and preach this or suffer the consequences!

Arthur Viani
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:40:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Graziani:
+1 on no 3.5# trigger for carry/home defense gun.

light trigger and lack of external safety doesn't go well Keep it stock.



Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:44:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 4:45:38 AM EDT by metroplex]
For a beginner shooter, what would be easier to use?
A Glock with a 4.5# pull, 5.5-6# pull, or 8#+ pull?

The reason I ask is that if the well trained shooter is somehow injured and someone else in the family has to grab the gun and take care of the BG's, which is easier for a potentially less experienced and less skilled shooter to use? I would think that a heavy trigger pull would cause the gun to shake in someone's hand (especially someone who has smaller or weaker hands) and maybe miss the target.

This is one reason why I did not want to go with a heavier recoiling caliber like 10mm, 45 Auto, 40 S&W, or 357 SIG.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:52:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
For a beginner shooter, what would be easier to use?
A Glock with a 4.5# pull, 5.5-6# pull, or 8#+ pull?

The reason I ask is that if the well trained shooter is somehow injured and someone else in the family has to grab the gun and take care of the BG's, which is easier for a potentially less experienced and less skilled shooter to use? I would think that a heavy trigger pull would cause the gun to shake in someone's hand (especially someone who has smaller or weaker hands) and maybe miss the target.

This is one reason why I did not want to go with a heavier recoiling caliber like 10mm, 45 Auto, 40 S&W, or 357 SIG.



I'd go with a 3.5lb connector. It typically yeilds a 4.5lb trigger (far from a hair-trigger).
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:23:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hydroshok:

Originally Posted By fizassist:
This is why we train, so trigger discipline doesn't have to be "on our minds". If someone is really that stressed out that they're fingering the trigger, do you think that 5.5 lb vs 3.5 lb is going to matter? If you're ham-fisting it, you're ham-fisting it, and you'll probably pull an 8.5 lb just as easy.



Very true, but how many people train and train and are ready to pass the big test without killing themselves or an innocent bystander ?

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