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Posted: 7/7/2012 11:28:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/7/2012 4:35:23 PM EDT by FMJ]
Anyone have any data on the 38spl 148gr  WC from a Jframe/  under 2inch barrel ?
They do around 700FPS out of a 4inch barrel

Looking for Bare Gel  or  4layer denim or heavy clothing

Also between Rem,Win,Fed 148gr WC  wich has the hardest lead.

Im guessing they are close to the same.
Link Posted: 7/7/2012 3:21:11 PM EDT


Wadcutter rounds are typically loaded with Bullseye, which is a very fast powder and the difference is minimal when going from 4 inch to 2 inch.



Penetration will generally be deep, with a full-caliber hole, regardless of the clothing.

Link Posted: 7/7/2012 4:32:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
Wadcutter rounds are typically loaded with Bullseye, which is a very fast powder and the difference is minimal when going from 4 inch to 2 inch.

Penetration will generally be deep, with a full-caliber hole, regardless of the clothing.



 My favorite reload load is 2.7 grs of bullseye and a  148 gr hollow base WC

Every one of J,K,L frames would groups 5 or 6 rds into a a ragged hole

Link Posted: 7/8/2012 9:45:52 AM EDT
Last Sunday I loaded 100 rounds for my wife to shoot out of her Charter Arms 2". After we were finished, I chrono'ed the loads some of which were WC's. I'll get that info for you ASAP. I may also load and chrono a few more.

 GG
Link Posted: 7/9/2012 8:03:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2012 8:06:05 AM EDT by FMJ]
Moderator Zhukov do you have any data on the 148 WC
I know ive heard the Doc talk he used them at one time
Link Posted: 7/9/2012 3:33:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2012 3:48:49 PM EDT by ggibbs]
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Anyone have any data on the 38spl 148gr  WC from a Jframe/  under 2inch barrel ?
They do around 700FPS out of a 4inch barrel

Looking for Bare Gel  or  4layer denim or heavy clothing

Also between Rem,Win,Fed 148gr WC  wich has the hardest lead.

Im guessing they are close to the same.


O.K. here are the results. The firearm is a Charter Arms Pink Lady w/2" barrel.  So far, I've only used Unique to keep from having to switch powders out of the measure. The bullets were all cast by me from air-cooled wheel weights with the exception of the 158 gr. SWC which is commercial cast. I'm listing the bullets by weight and style, but if anyone wants the mould numbers, let me know.

NOTE: Some of these loads are max or more depending on which manual you use, but not +P. Work up to the loads.

 3.8 grs. Unique:

  148 gr. WC-        703 fps
  152 gr. SWCHP- 690 fps
  168 gr. SWCHP- 655 fps
  170 gr. SWC-      621 fps

 4.2 grs. Unique:

   168 gr. SWCHP- 675 fps
   170 gr. SWC-      642 fps

    4.5 grs. Unique:

   148 gr. WC-        810 fps
   152 gr. SWCHP- 784 fps
   158 gr. SWC-      760 fps
   160 gr. SWC-      758 fps
   
    4.7 gr.s Unique:

   168 gr. SWCHP-  734 fps

    5.0 grs. Unique:
   
    148 gr. WC-        850 fps
    152 gr. SWCHP- 860 fps
    160 gr. SWC-      775 fps
    165 gr. SWC-      791 fps


   FMJ you asked about 148 gr. ballistic gel data. Here's a video of a 148 gr. WC fored from a 2" barrel into gel: 38 Special Federal 148gr Gold Medal Match Wadcutter versus gelatin

 I don't know what the velocity was, but it looked to me like the 148 gr. WC would work fine.

 
 

Link Posted: 7/10/2012 2:21:22 AM EDT
Thanks friend.

isn't gel suppose to be cali 10%

I've seen a few 20% but that was with  a 308

I shot a street sign out in the country. (I know I was young and dumb then.)
it pass through the the sign the post and the other sign behind it. S&W37  and 148 WC

If the 148 penetrates  over 12inches I would be happy with it since this is a back up handgun. ( I carry a 642 in my left front pocket and a Sig P229 40cal IWB at 3PM)
I'm like you I don't hold my breath with the 38+P expanding Id rather have the less recoil and accuracy! But I will use the ranger 130 bonded for my reload
Link Posted: 7/10/2012 2:33:11 AM EDT




Originally Posted By FMJ:

If the 148 penetrates over 12inches I would be happy with it since this is a back up handgun.




I don't have any pretty pictures and stuff to show you, but I wouldn't worry in the slightest about the WC round making 12 inches.
Link Posted: 7/10/2012 7:23:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/10/2012 8:09:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By FMJ:
Moderator Zhukov do you have any data on the 148 WC
I know ive heard the Doc talk he used them at one time

No, but I can just about guarantee you that the WC will penetrate very deeply.
 


Thank you?
Link Posted: 7/10/2012 10:10:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Moderator Zhukov do you have any data on the 148 WC
I know ive heard the Doc talk he used them at one time


I ain't Zhukov or Roberts, but here's what I have-

This data is from the "old" Brassfetcher website. Unfortunately, I never bothered to copy the photo from that page:

Cartridge: .38 Special, Buffalo Bore Ammunition 150 gr. standard pressure Hard Cast Wadcutter (Part #20D)
Firearm : Smith and Wesson 642 with 1 7/8" barrel length

Block calibration : All depths have been corrected (From 9.9cm @ 593 fps)

Shot 1 - Impacted at 907 fps, penetrated to 23.1" and was recovered at 0.356" average diameter.

Shot 2 - Impacted at 899 fps, penetrated to 23.1" and was recovered at 0.356" average diameter.

Shot 3 - Impacted at 882 fps, penetrated to 23.0" and was recovered at 0.357" average diameter.

Shot 4 - Impacted at 908 fps, exited the side of the block at 20.2" and was not recovered.

Shot 5 - Impacted at 905 fps, penetrated to 16.0" depth in the initial block, exited out of a side corner of this block and traveled at an approximate 15 degree angle into a stopper block placed to the side and rear of the initial block, in anticipation of such an event. The bullet penetrated to 6.5" in this block, for a total penetration of 20.7" (corrected depth).

For a 0.356" 150 gr. HC wadcutter at 900 fps:

- the MacPherson terminal ballistic model says it will penetrate 23.9 inches of calibrated ordnance gelatin

- the Schwartz terminal ballistic model says it will penetrate 20.7 inches of calibrated ordnance gelatin.


That help?

Link Posted: 7/11/2012 8:13:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By FMJ:
Moderator Zhukov do you have any data on the 148 WC
I know ive heard the Doc talk he used them at one time

No, but I can just about guarantee you that the WC will penetrate very deeply.
 


I realize anecodotes do not equal data, but after my experience with wadcutters through a 4 inch S&W Model 10, I would never trust them for defense.  Admittedly, the rounds were loaded by our range, and I have no idea of the powder or other load specs, but they would not penetrate the front glass window (safety glass, but non-bullet resistant) of a Popeye's Chicken.  The 9mms fired back out at us went through the glass just fine, but our wadcutters just cracked it.
Link Posted: 7/11/2012 4:20:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By FMJ:
Moderator Zhukov do you have any data on the 148 WC
I know ive heard the Doc talk he used them at one time

No, but I can just about guarantee you that the WC will penetrate very deeply.
 


I realize anecodotes do not equal data, but after my experience with wadcutters through a 4 inch S&W Model 10, I would never trust them for defense.  Admittedly, the rounds were loaded by our range, and I have no idea of the powder or other load specs, but they would not penetrate the front glass window (safety glass, but non-bullet resistant) of a Popeye's Chicken.  The 9mms fired back out at us went through the glass just fine, but our wadcutters just cracked it.


 Yep, because your wadcutters were soft, probably pure, lead, while in all likelihood the 9mm's were FMJ's. I used to work at an autmotive glass shop where we farted around shooting windshileds with this and that. A .22 caliber pellet 600-650 fps out of my Benjamin air rifle would flatten out on an automotive windshield while a steel BB @ 350 fps out of a Daisy Red Ryder would crack the windshield.

 Had your wadcutter been of harder material, it would easily have penetrated the glass.

 

Link Posted: 7/12/2012 12:51:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2012 3:06:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ikor:
Having seen autopsy x-rays of two different guys shot with factory wadcutter loads (one WW and one Rem) both penetrated well over 12in and one probably 16-18in from a very close shot while kneeling (execution). If they were all I had I would use 'em but I prefer something like the Speer 135gr GD+P.


I perfer to shoot +P or even 357magnums with 3 finger grips on a Jframe

I might look into a 3 finger grip that will fit in my Left front pocket . Or Better yet go with original wood  and a T grip If one could be found.

I just love the S&W full size rubber grips that they put on my Steel Frame  640/649 357mag and 640in 38spl+P but they dont carry  well in my pocket.

But on the other hand , I carry this J frame as a back up  to my 40S&W so I dont think I need to sweat the 5rds of 148grWC with a speed strip or HKS loader pack with ranger 130gr bonded.
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