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Posted: 2/28/2001 1:12:07 PM EST
i know there was a post-ban aug. i know an australian company also makes augs under license. it's just to bad no manufacturer here in the US could build post-ban augs like the fn fal's. with american stocks then there would be no cheesy thumbhole like on the post-ban aug. could be modified to take ar mags. and if enough were made, hopefully be a lot cheaper than $3000+. how about a post-ban G36 other than the slr-8. with a short barrel (16")and modified to take ar mags. HK allows other companies to make copies of their hk91-94 weapons. why not a copy of the G36? just wishfull thinking [8]
Link Posted: 2/28/2001 3:16:15 PM EST
I don't know the facts, but here is my theory... The gun would have to be made under licence, and Styer will not grant a licence to a civilian maker - non defense contractor who will only produce a small number a year. I understand the Slickster put pressure on foreign companies not to sell guns to the civilian market. Styer makes more than just service rifles and wants a piece of the DOD pie like everyone else. All it would take is a word to the wise from the Administration to stop a potential licence deal. Also, Styer may not want any part of being identified as an evil assault rifle manufacture in the legal climate of this country.
Link Posted: 2/28/2001 3:40:46 PM EST
Knowing a little about manufacturing costs, I would guess it would just be too expensive to tool up for such a limited run. If you could sell the complete rifle for $500, it would work, but I have seen parts kits for the Aug for more than that. [sniper] With all that said, it would be really cool to have one.
Link Posted: 2/28/2001 4:54:15 PM EST
HK allows other companies to make copies of their hk91-94 weapons. why not a copy of the G36?
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I don't think it's really a matter of HK "allowing" companies to make copies. The exception is Germany licensing other countries to produce the G3s and MP5s. This is a deal between the governments of the countries, due to Germany's strict export laws. As far as I know, HK doesn't make and money off of these deals. These are for military contracts, they wouldn't license a US company to make "assault weapons" for us poor civvies. Besides, none of the US clone companies have the blessings of HK-Germany or British Aerospace, with good reason: They don't want hundreds of complaints from the poor guys who bought POS Special Weapons guns. I'm not an expert on patents, but my belief is that when the alloted time runs out, it's a free-for-all, and anyone who has the dough can pump out your design. The G36, UMP, etc. are still under protection for the patents. Plus, you're getting about as close as you can get with the SL8 and USC. I'm surprised they allowed those into the county under the import ban. Anything less tame, would definitely be pegged as 'non-sporting' by the BAFT and nixed from importation. HK doesn't make them here in the states, because the cost to tool up here and pay people to build them, wouldn't be worth the limited civilian sales they would do.
Link Posted: 2/28/2001 7:44:48 PM EST
Much as I love the AUG the gun to US manufacture DSA style is the SA-80. I don't think any semi auto version came in the US ever and it does use AR mags. This is a big hole in my collection. I've shot 'em, I've used 'em and I love them. Not quite as good as the AUG but I gotta have it.
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 3:06:19 PM EST
Pogo - It's Steyr not Styer. I own 4 AUGs, 2 pre-ban 5.56 mm's, a Pre-ban 9mm, and a post-ban "USR", and about $5,000 worth of AUG accessories like mags, stocks, barrels, Picatinny rails, etc etc. Anything that would allow a cheaper AUG to be manufactured I'm against. I've already spent a fortune on my AUGs, and any domestic bargain basement AUG in production would destroy the value of my collection. Sorry but's that's the honest answer.
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 3:19:05 PM EST
maybe part of the reason is related to the fact that "uncle sam" "advised" springfield to end marketing of of the fal and hk copies?
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 3:20:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/1/2001 3:31:13 PM EST by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
Don't worry Werd. I don't think the POS Norinco UZI messed with the price of the IMI UZI. Though Group Industries UZI's were pretty well made and they did price almost the same as the real thing. Your AUG's sound like a stable investment. I for one, wouldn't buy a POS knock-off AUG.
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 3:26:45 PM EST
Werd, well that's a pretty selfish way to look at it, but I definitely see your point and understand your feelings. Either way, at least you're honest! There is also another negative way to look at it. If a 'post-ban' AUG clone came out, unless it used AR mags, it would require preban AUG mags for hicaps. This would raise the demand (and therefore the price) of preban mags. I personally welcome quality clones to the market. I own many HKs, but I don't mind when the clones come out. If the prices of the real things drop, then I am able to buy more real HKs. I guess one can only have so many AUGs, however, there are more variations of the HK on the market. Besides, most of the HK clones are crap, so the real things have not decreased in value yet, with the exception of a minor decrease in cost of HK91s ($200 max).
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 3:42:53 PM EST
I have a USR; but really, I think the AUG/USR is a 2nd generation bullpup which has some deficiencies (but it's still better than many other rifles and totally reliable), and the newer bullpups (such as the SAR-21 and the commercial 30 cal Ochenfuss whatever -- I can't remember the name -- will address the major issue, which was trigger pull). That 30 cal sporter has a two-stage trigger... Anyway, I'd be more inclined to hope that Bushmaster can modify it's Australian-derived M17S bullpup... give it a two stage trigger, get rid of the carry handle in favor of a slightly-elevated Picatinny rail, offer a desert or arctic camo version, and add a good barrel. And, they should sell it at $549... LOL!!!
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 3:56:17 PM EST
another_shooter I agree with you that the AUG is superior to most rifles. But your statement regarding the M17S is not entirely accurate. Yes the M17 was submitted to the Australian military as candidate for main service rifle (it was beat out by the AUG) but what you didn't say was that the M17S was built from an original design created by none other than Eugene Stoner. The Stoner design was almost unchanged in the M17 submitted to Aussie mil. The M17S is an interesting little carbine and I bought one about a year ago. Without a scope it is useless, unless you think hitting unintended targets is useful. But once I put a C Mor Tactical on mine, it became a fun rifle to shoot. I think this is the most under-rated and under-valued semi auto rifle currently availible in the US, and I'm glad I have one.
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