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Posted: 9/15/2010 4:18:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 4:18:45 PM EDT by cyrus-the-virus]
Just an honest question, but why is it that damn near every single pocket pistol(ruger LCP sized) is chambered for .380? Why not just chamber it for 9mm and be done with it?

Anyone know?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 4:19:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrus-the-virus:
Just an honest question, but why is it that damn near every single pocket pistol(ruger LCP sized) is chambered for .380? Why not just chamber it for 9mm and be done with it?

Anyone know?


The 9 mm requires a locked breech (at least with a pistol of reasonable weight). The .380 doesn't.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 4:21:40 PM EDT
[sarcasm]Because people who are serious about self-defense carry a .45... [/sarcasm]
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 4:22:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By cyrus-the-virus:
Just an honest question, but why is it that damn near every single pocket pistol(ruger LCP sized) is chambered for .380? Why not just chamber it for 9mm and be done with it?

Anyone know?


The 9 mm requires a locked breech (at least with a pistol of reasonable weight). The .380 doesn't.


This ^ locked breech versus blowback design and the weight / size required for a blowback 9mm.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 4:23:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 4:27:29 PM EDT by omega62]
Years ago, there were not many 9x19 pistols in compact size, so .380 ACP was able to corner the "pocket pistol" market for the most part.

Today, that is no longer true of course, with all sorts of very size efficient 9x19 pistols available.

Some people do have wardrobe requirements that make it impossible for them to conceal even the most compact of the 9x19 offerings, and so for them pistols like the LCP make sense.

However, I would really advise anyone today to get a compact 9x19 instead of a .380 ACP unless you absolutely cannot make it work for your concealment needs.

ETA: Wait, I guess I answered a question you didn't ask. Sorry!
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 4:27:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By cyrus-the-virus:
Just an honest question, but why is it that damn near every single pocket pistol(ruger LCP sized) is chambered for .380? Why not just chamber it for 9mm and be done with it?

Anyone know?


The 9 mm requires a locked breech (at least with a pistol of reasonable weight). The .380 doesn't.

Not entirely true most modern ultra compact .380 pistols use a locked breach design. I have not studied this very closely, but always assumed the extra energy and pressures of 9mm make 9mm pistols at the size of a LCP impractical at the moment. The smallest 9mm pistols tend to have short service lives, which kind of backs up my assumption.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 4:28:55 PM EDT
I'm not seeing a problem realy.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:06:44 PM EDT
I remember Jeff Cooper's answer when someone asked him what he carried when he wore shorts and a tshirt and didn't have a place to hide a 1911. He said before he'd carry a little pistol, he'd put the big one in a grocery sack and carry it. I haven't done that but I sure as hell have put a Glock .45 Model 30 in a camera case and carried it around my neck. With the small 9mm available I don't have any reason why a .380 would sell.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:10:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 7:11:28 PM EDT by Seansworth]
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By cyrus-the-virus:
Just an honest question, but why is it that damn near every single pocket pistol(ruger LCP sized) is chambered for .380? Why not just chamber it for 9mm and be done with it?

Anyone know?


The 9 mm requires a locked breech (at least with a pistol of reasonable weight). The .380 doesn't.


Weaker round allows for simpler (i.e. smaller) mechanism and therefore a smaller pistol. That's why pocket pistols are .380 and 9mm's pretty much require a holster.

ETA: I was halfway talking out of my ass on this one. It's more of a guess than anything.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:11:35 PM EDT
I'd kill someone I liked for a Walther PPK in 9mm.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:14:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By cyrus-the-virus:
Just an honest question, but why is it that damn near every single pocket pistol(ruger LCP sized) is chambered for .380? Why not just chamber it for 9mm and be done with it?

Anyone know?


The 9 mm requires a locked breech (at least with a pistol of reasonable weight). The .380 doesn't.


The LCP, P3AT, etc... are locked breach also.

The real answer is you can't make a 9mm pistol the size/weight of a LCP.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:16:33 PM EDT
My Sig P232 only weighs about 17 oz.

It's very easy to carry on "light days".

When I know for sure that there will be Zombies I pack heavier.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:22:05 PM EDT
I live in a hot climate where we do not wear coats or heavy clothes. I choose to carry a small, lightweight .380 because I drop it in my pants pocket every morning and carry it everywhere. I do not even think about it unless I am going into the jail (can't carry inside the security perimeter). If I tried to carry a bigger or heavier pistol (9mm or .45), it would be in my desk or under the truck seat more than I would carry it.

For all you "mouse gun" killjoys out there, the only one who will know the difference in caliber if I pump a clip of hollow-points into a perp's nugget will be the coroner who removes them. I would rather have a "mouse gun" on my person than a .45 under the seat in the truck.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:24:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By theBUBBAMANcan:
My Sig P232 only weighs about 17 oz.

It's very easy to carry on "light days".

When I know for sure that there will be Zombies I pack heavier.


My m&p .40c is 21 oz. It is too big and heavy for me to pocket carry.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:25:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TwoDogKnight:
I'm not seeing a problem realy.
http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=21853

Problem with that one is weight.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:25:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Coifman:
I live in a hot climate where we do not wear coats or heavy clothes. I choose to carry a small, lightweight .380 because I drop it in my pants pocket every morning and carry it everywhere. I do not even think about it unless I am going into the jail (can't carry inside the security perimeter). If I tried to carry a bigger or heavier pistol (9mm or .45), it would be in my desk or under the truck seat more than I would carry it.

For all you "mouse gun" killjoys out there, the only one who will know the difference in caliber if I pump a clip of hollow-points into a perp's nugget will be the coroner who removes them. I would rather have a "mouse gun" on my person than a .45 under the seat in the truck.


You said "clip".I carry a smith 360 with buffalo bore +p FBI loads,I'd rather have that than a .380 any day.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:37:13 PM EDT
The Kel-tec P3AT became very popular due to its small size and light weight and it still fires a .380acp round which is much better than the previous .25 or .32 caliber pistols that are the same size and weight and are true pocket pistols. Of course then Ruger jumps on the bandwagon creating the LCP which looks very much like the Kel-tec. Also the price tags for these small .380 pistols are low and affordable.

I think Rohrbaugh had the right idea with their very small 9mm pocket pistol, but it didn't become as popular due to it's high price tag. I think the Kahr PM9 is good choice for a pocket 9mm, but it's still more expensive than the .380 pistols.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:46:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 7:47:45 PM EDT by C_Rion]
Originally Posted By theBUBBAMANcan:
My Sig P232 only weighs about 17 oz.

It's very easy to carry on "light days".

When I know for sure that there will be Zombies I pack heavier.


I agree, I carry a Sig 232 as my BUG on my ankle, and it really dosent feel like its there. On top of that, I am way more accurate with it than I am with a DAO snub, and it has an ammunition capacity and ease of reloading advantage.

There will now be much wailing and gnashing of teeth over the above statement, LOL.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:47:28 PM EDT
I love me some LCP, but I've been lusting lately for the sig 380 1911 mini deal......
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:52:44 PM EDT
LCR .38+p, pocket holster, it feels like I'm wearing nothing at all..Nothing at all...Nothing at all.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:54:19 PM EDT
I'd love to see some of you .45 leg humpers take a .380 like a man and say it doesn't work...... A +p loading from a .380 at point blank range is going to do more than make you want to sit down and think about it for a while....
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:58:18 PM EDT
Why 9mm, why not .50 AE?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:59:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 8:00:13 PM EDT by Evilsmurfkilla]

Originally Posted By Coifman:
I live in a hot climate where we do not wear coats or heavy clothes. I choose to carry a small, lightweight .380 because I drop it in my pants pocket every morning and carry it everywhere. I do not even think about it unless I am going into the jail (can't carry inside the security perimeter). If I tried to carry a bigger or heavier pistol (9mm or .45), it would be in my desk or under the truck seat more than I would carry it.

For all you "mouse gun" killjoys out there, the only one who will know the difference in caliber if I pump a clip of hollow-points into a perp's nugget will be the coroner who removes them. I would rather have a "mouse gun" on my person than a .45 under the seat in the truck.

My Glock 23 in an MTAC disappears under just a polo or t-shirt. My Taurus TCP .380 sits in my safe most of the time.

Also, clippity clip clip clip.



Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:05:17 PM EDT
stupid sexy jeffco55
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:16:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fiver:
stupid sexy jeffco55


And thanks for the new sig line.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:17:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kingpin38506:
I'd kill someone I liked for a Walther PPK in 9mm.




I second that!
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:20:59 PM EDT
meh... shoot a tiny pistol.

I handload.... the .380 that is almost as good as pathetic 9mm is brutal to shoot. And it only works a little of the time.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:22:06 PM EDT
I like my Keltec PF9 "pocket" pistol.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:24:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 8:25:40 PM EDT by valheru21]
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
I'd love to see some of you .45 leg humpers take a .380 like a man and say it doesn't work...... A +p loading from a .380 at point blank range is going to do more than make you want to sit down and think about it for a while....


.380 doesn't benefit from +P loadings (with respect to penetration or expansion). And, there is no SAMMI spec for +P in .380. So long as you understand the limitations of your weapon of choice, you will be well-served in employing it. I could confidently and effectively defend myself with a .22LR.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:25:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TwoDogKnight:
I'm not seeing a problem realy.
http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=21853


Meh. Probably weighs more that a full-size Glock.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:28:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By omega62:
Years ago, there were not many 9x19 pistols in compact size, so .380 ACP was able to corner the "pocket pistol" market for the most part.

Today, that is no longer true of course, with all sorts of very size efficient 9x19 pistols available.

Some people do have wardrobe requirements that make it impossible for them to conceal even the most compact of the 9x19 offerings, and so for them pistols like the LCP make sense.

However, I would really advise anyone today to get a compact 9x19 instead of a .380 ACP unless you absolutely cannot make it work for your concealment needs.

ETA: Wait, I guess I answered a question you didn't ask. Sorry!


This.

The best thing that came out of the Brady Bill with it's 10 round mag capacity, was the birth of smaller framed 9mm, .40 and .45 offerings from nearly every gun maker in the US market.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:28:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TwoDogKnight:
I'm not seeing a problem realy.
http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=21853

Try and find parts for it.



Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:30:20 PM EDT
Simple answer:

A P3AT or LCP in 9x19 would blow the fuck up.

How's that?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:32:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 8:32:58 PM EDT by Seven-Shooter]
Operational pressures and metallurgy limitations.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:36:16 PM EDT


Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:40:41 PM EDT
I have a Ruger LCP and carry it everyday either in a pocket holster, or on my hip with the Kel-tec clip for the P3AT. I've also carried it for 11 months. That being said I'd be scared if I had to use it. It's their but it's like pulling out a box knife. You'll scare the guys without a knife but when that guy pulls out his Crocdiledunde knife you'll poop yourself.

I think my next carry gun will be the Kel-tec PF9 (12.7 ounces empty), also with the Kel-tec clip for IWB. This is the easiest carry, and pretty good presentation, 9mm loadings, slightly better grip area, still light weight.

Ideally, I'd carry a fullsize everyday but clothing and weather prevent it.

Here's a photo comparing the GLOCK 27, Kel-Tec P11, Kel-Tec PF9, and Kel-Tec P3AT.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:58:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TEAMSHRALP:
I have a Ruger LCP and carry it everyday either in a pocket holster, or on my hip with the Kel-tec clip for the P3AT. I've also carried it for 11 months. That being said I'd be scared if I had to use it. It's their but it's like pulling out a box knife. You'll scare the guys without a knife but when that guy pulls out his Crocdiledunde knife you'll poop yourself.

I think my next carry gun will be the Kel-tec PF9 (12.7 ounces empty), also with the Kel-tec clip for IWB. This is the easiest carry, and pretty good presentation, 9mm loadings, slightly better grip area, still light weight.

Ideally, I'd carry a fullsize everyday but clothing and weather prevent it.

Here's a photo comparing the GLOCK 27, Kel-Tec P11, Kel-Tec PF9, and Kel-Tec P3AT.
http://www.mouseguns.com/quad.jpg
http://www.mouseguns.com/weights.jpg


Thanks for that great post. I usually carry a G26, and I like the PF9. I would feel undergunned with a .380.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:09:47 PM EDT
Why not .45?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:13:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pv74:
Why not .45?

if you have nothing to offer then STFU.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:30:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:

Originally Posted By pv74:
Why not .45?

if you have nothing to offer then STFU.


+1,

but if you must G30 would sorta work...
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:31:32 PM EDT
AT the time I was able to get a known-reliable, affordable, small pistol for my wife that she would be able to handle the recoil from.

Bersa Thunder / Firestorm .380


Now that Walther has their PPS out, and Bersa should have their new thin 9mm imported by the end of the year, I may go strictly 9mm.

I was stuck between a Bersa .380 and a SIG .45 for ccw. Now I am happy to carry an M&P9c, and will still be buying one of the aforementioned thin 9mm pistols.

All my .380 may end up in the Equipment Exchange
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 10:32:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By cyrus-the-virus:
Just an honest question, but why is it that damn near every single pocket pistol(ruger LCP sized) is chambered for .380? Why not just chamber it for 9mm and be done with it?

Anyone know?


The 9 mm requires a locked breech (at least with a pistol of reasonable weight). The .380 doesn't.


This ^ locked breech versus blowback design and the weight / size required for a blowback 9mm.



You might be able to get around that with a heavy recoil spring, and, or a roller locking system.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 10:48:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Coifman:
I live in a hot climate where we do not wear coats or heavy clothes. I choose to carry a small, lightweight .380 because I drop it in my pants pocket every morning and carry it everywhere. I do not even think about it unless I am going into the jail (can't carry inside the security perimeter). If I tried to carry a bigger or heavier pistol (9mm or .45), it would be in my desk or under the truck seat more than I would carry it.

For all you "mouse gun" killjoys out there, the only one who will know the difference in caliber if I pump a clip of hollow-points into a perp's nugget will be the coroner who removes them. I would rather have a "mouse gun" on my person than a .45 under the seat in the truck.


They make pocket sized M1 Garands now?, cool.

These are clips:



This is a magazine:



The Clip, goes in to the magazine:



Any Questions?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 10:58:02 PM EDT
The 9mm NATO/Para round is a high pressure(for a pistol) round. At one time, the old Detonics Corp made a blow-back operated Pocket 9 chamber in 9mm Para. It kicked like a mule, ie the recoil was severe. The 380ACP is a low pressure round so that, guns can be lighter and more compact. My Colt Mustang Pocketlite has an aluminum frame and carbon steel slide, empty weight w/mag is 14oz.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 11:05:30 PM EDT
I already hate shooting my P3AT. I cant imagine how bad it would be if it was in 9mm.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 11:09:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 11:12:31 PM EDT by Nerf]
I've carried a G19 daily for a couple years now, but I found myself in more and more situations where I just couldn't properly conceal it, or was going to be doing something active and there was no way it would work. (Ever try rockclimbing in shorts and a t-shirt while still concealing a G19 in an MTAC when you're 6'5 and 175lbs?)

Picked up a Diamondback D380 about a month ago, and I fucking love it. Makes carrying to and from school much easier as well - Texas bans CCW inside of campus buildings, but not on the property/parking lot. It's a whole hell of a lot easier tossing the Diamondback into the glovebox when I get to class and back into my pocket when I get out then it is taking off/putting on an MTAC with a G19 inside.

I still carry the G19 whenever I can, but after an altercation at a 'family fun center' with a group of about 15 disenfranchised urban youths and their 30 something mother and friends, I decided that never again would I put myself in a situation where I couldn't carry because I would be unable to conceal it.

ETA: It's really not that bad to shoot either, hornady TAPs and speer golddots both ran flawlessly, it's about as snappy as my Glock and getting it back on target is easy. Dumping a mag in the 10 ring at 5 yards was cake in 6-10 seconds (no rapid fire range). Shoots about 2-3" low at 10 feet.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 11:12:45 PM EDT
9mm in that sized semi-auto weapon just really wouldn't work for the reasons stated. Given the choice, I would look for a 9mm j frame, personally.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 11:16:10 PM EDT
I always thought if I could CCW I would carry my G27 in one of those inside pocket holsters, like the Galco PH286 front pocket holster.

That won't work?
Link Posted: 9/16/2010 1:17:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_4th_Horseman:
I already hate shooting my P3AT. I cant imagine how bad it would be if it was in 9mm.


God you sound like my wife. Jeez.
Link Posted: 9/16/2010 2:41:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Coifman:
...I pump a clip of hollow-points ...


Link Posted: 9/16/2010 2:42:38 AM EDT
thread hijack
I bought the wifey a s&w 3953 and by damn if that is not the most perfect sized concealable pistol i have ever handled and it shoots like a dream..


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