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Posted: 5/13/2004 5:01:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 5:43:24 PM EST by mainerockgym]
short of taking it apart, due to lack of tools, & short of brushing it clean, does the bolt need lubrication? where & how much exactly would I lube it? also, where is the best place to buy parts for my AR? like springs, pins, bolt, etc. For reference on the parts question--- I have a post ban Colt M4 upper (model RO977) on a pre-ban Gov't Carbine. And I have a Bushmaster post ban M4gery with mini y-comp muzzle brake.


Thanks for your time. . .db
mainerockgym@icqmail.com
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:03:23 PM EST
What do you mean tools to take it apart? Pull out the firing pin retaining pin and you're done. The whole thing comes apart.

I would highly recommend cleaning the thing periodically. It gets pretty filthy in there.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:05:58 PM EST
??
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:06:06 PM EST
A lot of carbon builds up on the rear of the bolt, so take a dental tool and scrape it off. And hell yes, keep that puppy lubed, stagger the rings and your good to go.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:07:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Misery:
??



hhhmmmm
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:13:07 PM EST
a stripper clip works good as a carbon scraper to clean carbon deposits in the carrier where the bolt goes. no need to buy any special carbon scraper tools.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:18:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:19:07 PM EST by mainerockgym]
what's with all the hmmmms?

Do I make you guys wonder? I can hear it now. . .what's wrong with this guy

I am learning about detailed maintenance and I feel the manual doesn't tell me enough. . .
I spent my hard eraned money on my first Colt pre ban, and want to learn to take care of it right.

many of the guys on ARFC are the ones who taught me the difference between a post ban weapon and a pre ban weapon. . .just trying to learn some of your tried and true methods. . .db
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:23:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Misery:
??



I'm the TROLL patrol in these parts, DAMN IT!

I'm not picking up any TRUE trolling vibes.


He may continue.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:28:19 PM EST
Post-ban machine gun? Is this an NFA weapon? There's no such thing as a post-ban machine gun. You may be naive in the terminology and that's okay, just keep in mind these gun sites can be a playground for gun-grabbers. We do have to watch ourselves, regardless of how legal we are.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:31:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Misery:
Post-ban machine gun? Is this an NFA weapon? There's no such thing as a post-ban machine gun. You may be naive in the terminology and that's okay, just keep in mind these gun sites can be a playground for gun-grabbers. We do have to watch ourselves, regardless of how legal we are.



And another fact is, if you have two AR's and have no knowledge of cleaning them, may seem a little trollish.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:40:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 5:43:30 PM EST by tommytrauma]

Originally Posted By mainerockgym:
short of taking it apart, due to lack of tools, & short of brushing it clean, does the bolt need lubrication? where & how much exactly would I lube it? also, where is the best place to buy parts for my AR? like springs, pins, bolt, etc. For reference on the parts question--- I have a post ban Colt M4 machine gun upper on a pre-ban Gov't Carbine. And I have a Bushmaster post ban M4gery with mini y-comp muzzle brake.


Thanks for your time. . .db
mainerockgym@icqmail.com



First, you don't need a single tool to disassemble an AR enough to clean the bolt and carrier. Push the take down pin out, pivot the weapon open, pull the charging handle back part way and you can pull the bolt and carrier right out. If you look in 'manuals and downloads' under the 'information' button at the top of your screen, you'll find plenty of information on care and cleaning. Yes, it needs lube, and it must be disassembed in order to do this.
jobrelatedstuff.com/content/guides/maintenance/

Secondly, just what exactly is a post ban Colt M4 machine gun upper? If you're NOT talking about an illegal full auto weapon, you're using the wrong termanology.
Link Posted: 5/13/2004 5:46:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/13/2004 5:47:41 PM EST by mainerockgym]
I didn't say I had no knowledge on cleaning an AR.
I just asked about maintaining the bolt carrier and proper lubing. . .

I corrected my first post. . .Regarding the upper---in my first post I used the term that I was told when I bought the Gov't Carbine. But the upper is(model R0977)

Thanks. . .db
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:45:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:46:39 AM EST by mainerockgym]
I finally got the nerve up to ask this question, and you guys are saying what?

what the hell is a troll?

some one break it down for me please. . .

I wish you guys didn't try to read into what I was asking. I am not stupid, & I know how to clean a rifle. I was just looking for a little guidance regarding the proper way to clean & lube the bolt, as I have never taken apart the bolt carrier. And by lack of tools, I was referring to taking out the retaining pin that holds the firing pin in. I wasn't sure if it just came out easily, or if a special tool was needed to do it. I also wasn't sure if when I got it out, it would go back in easily or not. I have always owned HK weapons and this Colt & Bushmaster are well... lets say... not my specialty.

When I bought the Gov't Carbine, the guy who sold it to me used the exact term I used in my orignal post last night, ( for those of you who commented) and I was looking to have confirmation from ya'll if it was BS or not. So I have corrected the original post to reflect the actual model # of my upper, and It would be nice if you (know who you are) would do the same.

I own several NFA weapons and know what it means to risk loosing the right to own such items.
I did not come here to start trouble or cause concerns. please forgive my lack of knowledge in what to say and what not to say here. again I am learning.

Regards,
Doug B.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:06:24 AM EST
mainerockgyn:

A troll is someone who makes an idiotic post knowing it is idiotic for the express purpose of getting people to respond to the outrageous post. Well disguised trolls have just enough non-trollish stuff in it to make it plausible. Like someone else said - you have an AR, but ask about bolt carrier maintenance...

Anyway. Download and read the TM9-1005-319-10 manual. They explicitly tell you where to lube a little and where to lube a lot, and what they mean by "little" and "lots".
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:08:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By mainerockgym:
I finally got the nerve up to ask this question, and you guys are saying what?

what the hell is a troll?

some one break it down for me please. . .

I wish you guys didn't try to read into what I was asking. I am not stupid, & I know how to clean a rifle. I was just looking for a little guidance regarding the proper way to clean & lube the bolt, as I have never taken apart the bolt carrier. And by lack of tools, I was referring to taking out the retaining pin that holds the firing pin in. I wasn't sure if it just came out easily, or if a special tool was needed to do it. I also wasn't sure if when I got it out, it would go back in easily or not. I have always owned HK weapons and this Colt & Bushmaster are well... lets say... not my specialty.

When I bought the Gov't Carbine, the guy who sold it to me used the exact term I used in my orignal post last night, ( for those of you who commented) and I was looking to have confirmation from ya'll if it was BS or not. So I have corrected the original post to reflect the actual model # of my upper, and It would be nice if you (know who you are) would do the same.

I own several NFA weapons and know what it means to risk loosing the right to own such items.
I did not come here to start trouble or cause concerns. please forgive my lack of knowledge in what to say and what not to say here. again I am learning.

Regards,
Doug B.



Maine, looks like some crossed wires. Check my response to your PM. The retaining pin for the firing pin is just a simple cotter pin. I can pull mine out with my fingernails, but you might end up using the tip of a knife or screwdriver or something if yours is tight. Just don't spread the ends once it's out. The firing pin itself is the perfect tool for removing the retaining pin for the ejector. My last post has a link to step by step instructions and pictures of this process.

As far as reading into what you say, If you're a NFA owner you know how sensative the issue is.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:42:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 10:47:47 AM EST by Carbine_Man]
mainerockgym,

Please don't be put off by some of the responses. You can appreciate that AR's are anti-politically-correct, and sometimes members are a little over-sensitive to folks yanking their chains.

I was exactly in your situation about 10 years ago. I bought my first Colt Match Sporter HBAR (yeah, a neutered gun!) I really didn't know anything about the rifle other than how much fun it is to shoot. I didn't know how to disassemble a bolt, or anything. Don't feel like you are the object of scorn or anything. AR15.com is such a great resource sometimes we assume that everyone knows this stuff.

To answer your question... it's been answered above!

I usually strip the bolt down to taking the extractor off the bolt. My cleaning regime starts with stripping the rifle, swabbing the bore and letting it soak. Then I strip the bolt as described above. I wipe the worst of the grime off the bolt parts but I don't get fussy. I use Ed's Red (the home-brew gun cleaning juice). I keep most of it in an olive jar (tall and skinny) and pour some off into a tuna can. The firing pin retaining pin, firing pin, cam pin, extractor and extractor pin and bolt all go in the tuna can to soak. Then I wipe inside the bolt carrier and drop it in the olive jar of Ed's Red to soak. Ed's Red does a good job of dissolving the carbon and leaves a slippery coat on the soaked metal.

I finish cleaning the barrel, wipe out the upper and lower, then retrieve the bolt parts from the can. I wipe them off, put a little CLP on for lubrication (just a little) then reassemble. After soaking in the Ed's Red, I find that most of the grime wipes out of the carrier with a rag on the end of a toothbrush. There really is no need to get fanatic about cleaning in there, it doesn't affect the functioning of the bolt.

[edited to add] Don't over-oil the upper and bolt. It just gums-up the works.

Hope this helps.

C_M
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 11:15:52 AM EST
Feed and water daily
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 11:28:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 11:31:02 AM EST by Hokie]
Ease up on mainerockgym, he asked a legit technical question and god forbid he's not a gun nerd like the majorityof you. The only thing he's actually guilty of is posting an AR question in the GD!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 11:46:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 11:47:25 AM EST by mainerockgym]
Hey guys I am not put off and have taken no offense. . .just wanted the break down.
so you have done that for me, and I thank you. This site has started to be the place I first turn when I have questions.
I guess I will just have to start learning all the codes and acronyms so I can figure out what half of you are saying and I promise I will learn to post in the right forum

again thank you!

db
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 12:19:36 PM EST
Doug: I've found that the most expedient way to clean the bolt is with B12 Chemtool (or any other carb & choke cleaner-it's cheaper than GunScrubber). Sprays away most all of the carbon build-up and the old lubricant. Whatever doesn't just run out you can swab out with a few Q-tips.

Upon re-assembly, I give the ejector just a small spray of Rusty Duck and lube all the other components with TW25B.

I haven't had A SINGLE problem with either of my ARs in the two years I've been maintaining the bolts in the this way. And occasionally I go 2 or 3 shooting trips without even cleaning them.

As mentioned before, the bolt is SUPER EASY to disassemble and clean. In fact it almost falls apart itself. I did it the first time with NO manual/directions. Remember, the weapon was designed to be maintained by some people that are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Give it a go-you'll find out it's not nearly as intimidating as it looks. If you're REAL worried, get a video camera and tape the disassembly for reference.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 12:32:38 PM EST
If you don't want to bother DLing the technical manual, here's a simple breakdown:

Push out rear pin (it doesn't come out all the way, it stops). Rotate upper. Since you said you have other uppers, I assume you've got this down.

Pull back on the charging handle like you would be chambering a round (while the upper and lower are rotated apart). You can now pull out the bolt carrier assembly and charging handle, although the charging handle only comes out at a specific point.

Now, use the tip of a screwdriver, knife, or bullet (this works pretty well with a 5.56 round) to pull out the 'cotter pin' style pin that you see on the side of the bolt carrier.

Pull out the shiny firing pin that can be seen through the cuts in the bolt carrier.

Push the bolt so that it is as far into the carrier as possible.

Rotate the cam pin (the rectangular piece that moves rearward with the bolt) 1/4 of a turn either direction, and pull it out.

The bolt should now pull out (but not fall out) of the carrier.

Clean as described in other posts. Reassemble.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 12:39:20 PM EST
One of the most important items missing from the above is proper lubrication following cleaning. Once clean, put two or three drops of lube in the bolt face, puddling it near the ejector rod. Cycle the ejector rod a few times by using a spent casing or the firing pin, to allow the lube to penetrate into the ejector rod hole and spring. The remainder of the bolt should then be lubed accordingly, just a slight sheen on the bolt itself. Don't forget to lube the cam pin and areas of the bolt carrier where the cam pin makes contact. Make sure the "rails" of the carrier are lubed as well. The remainder of the surfaces can be lubed then wiped.
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