Ok, forget the basic stuff like first aid kits, I want the far out stuff, so I will start. If you get a cut or shallow wound use honey as a salve it contains antibiotics that will prevent infections.

if the botulism doesn't kill you first [:D]

Pee on yourself if you get stung by a jelly fish.

[b]1)[/b] Always keep a pencil with several wreaps of duct tape in your quick kit, as the pencil can be used for noting vitals and/or a splint, aided with the tape to hold said splint.

[b]2)[/b] Keep a dropper bottle of tincture iodine on hand, as it is used to disinfect wounds and to treat tainted water.

[b]3)[/b] A few hard candies in your kit, can  treat diabetic and/or insulin shock.

[b]4)[/b] Heavy BBQ grill foil can be used in conjunction with duct tape to create a "Sam Splint", as well for signaling and reflecting heat.

[b]5)[/b] Maxi-pads are the absolute best field sponges, for controling bleeding.

[b]6)[/b] Tea bags are ideal for numbing oral wounds ([i]teeth and gums[/i]), due to the tanic acid in the tea leaves.

Pissing on the feet will cure athletes foot also.//////Honey needs no refrigeration, the anti-biotic I mentioned keeps it from spoiling.

[b]7)[/b] Salt ([i]salty peanuts, salt tabs or salt packets[/i]) almost immediately eliminates muscle cramps.

[b]8)[/b] Dipping strike anywhere matches in a thin parafin wax, makes them waterproof.

[b]9)[/b] Cyalume sticks should be used as emergency signals at night, and not just wasted by hanging around necks, or stuck in pockets!

[b]10)[/b] If lost, you can always find your way and/or tell time, with shadows.

[*] I should add, that the hottest looking female on any outing, will [u]always[/u] be the person needing medical support...  and her boyfriend will turn out to be the biggest asshole you have ever met.  He will not only "accuse" the responders with "fondling" his woman, but will freak her out and create a nightmarish situation, that was initially controllable![/*]

I make the above statement, after several years experience, working as a wilderness guide!

Like the salt thing, good, thanks. I guess there ain't a lot of go in the bush guys around, the thread seems lacking for responses. Anyway I am always on the look out for good ideas that work, some guy, raven said something about dissolving pain meds in water and pouring off the water as the opiates dissolve and the tylonol doesn't, good idea if a pain killer was needed without the tylonol.  A idea is only bad if used in a bad way.

I have kept two in my kit for several years and never had a chance to use them. My brother and a friend were rock climbing and we were going though gear to lighten any excess. My brother pulled a MAXIpad out of my first aid kit and said "what the hell is this " I told him to treat a head injury or wound. HE said " Before you put that on me you can just let me bleed to death." My friend chimed in with the same remark. I tried to talk sense but to no avail.

That night after setting up camp my friend changed his mind and said " If I get hit in the head, go ahead and use the Maxipad on one condition that you take it OFF BEFORE I get to the hospital".

LOL

I have been shot and am here to tell you, you do not feel it for awhile, so I carry hemo stats in my kit to cut off blood loss, I think the pain is something I could endure if my life was on the line, it is a blood and guts thing that you need to be there to appreciate, so maxi pads is no big deal to me, if you ever saw a arterial wound ( I have )you would know what I am talking about, once I was 5 miles from my cabin, the ATV rolled over on me, I went into shock, drove five miles back to the cabin, popped some demeral and called my wife(cell phone) to check up on me in the morn. to see if I had died or not, I did not and it took me three hours to get home(yes I was speeding) and to the doctor, results 4 ribs broke in 6 places, slept in a easy boy for 4 weeks, man that sucked. so I guess my point is, in a do or die thing , a maxi pad  is no big deal to me, good idea. It is a surgical sponge type of thing.

Check up on this, I think you will find out some interesting info on it. Trust me, this is not bullshit. Honey has natural bacterial compounds that do fight infection, yes the iodine is better, but I suggested it as a possible alternative only. Where is the beekeeper when you need him. One more thing you heat the jams when you preserve them this is what prevents spoilage.

Keep a low temp mummy bag in your trunk at all times, because it can be used for:

[b]1)[/b] Winter weather car breakdown, where you can't afford to keep your engine running.

[b]2)[/b] Keep a shock victim warm.

[b]3)[/b] Used as a secure litter, to carry a victim to safety.


Back in '93, I was critically injured in a rock climbing accident, where I fell 75' and landed on a slab rock, inside of a very narrow gorge.

Because I had the knowledge and experience of wilderness rescue and first aid, I actually led my own rescue...  I was very coherent, yet shocky and in immense pain, but the overriding factors kept me conscious, just long enough to be put on a life-flight.  The outside temp at the time of the accident was 34*, and falling quickly, as the sun dropped over the mountains.

I had my climbing partner gather up all of our collective gear ([i]other climbers were present[/i])to rig pulleys', and started barking out orders to everyone else.  One guy grabbed my mummy bag, another got aspirin, another went to a CB to radio for help and give our coordinates...

The extraction took about 3 hours from the time I actually lost the rope, until I was in the air, being flown to the trauma center.

When in a situation like that, minutes do by by like hours, but remaining calm is the key to everything you have ever been taught!

Just about every type of rescue technique you could dream of, was utilized that day, and I will forever be indebted to those guys that helped me out of that gorge.

75 feet, guy you live a charmed life, I have seen guys fall 16 feet and buy the farm, send me a little of that luck guy.

Apple cider vinegar. The 5% acid puts to rest most little buggers in the body. one tablespoon in water for the morning. Also good for sunburns

LONG POST WARNING

Okay - get yer head outta the boards, and go to the bookstore.

[b]Ditch Medicine[/b]. I forget the author (I'm at work), but one of the things he recommends is a thing called Sugardyne - it's an iodine/sugar mix that's sterile, and supposedly shows great results for healing. Don't know about FDA approval. the book's also a pretty good intro to a lot of SHTF medical stuff.

AAOS/Brady Emergency Medical Technician - Basic text and work book. If you're serious, make the time comittment and take the 4 month class. It's up to you if you want to volunteer or not afterwards, but if you're serious about providing pre(?) hospital care, start here. American Red Cross first aid is a nice touch, but go with the EMT class and learn how to deal with stuff. (No offense intended to ARC grads)

Mosby/Brady paramedic text and work book. Available at most community colleges. The new curriculum is 11 months here in Illinois, and you've got to have several HUNDRED hours in field and in-hospital time (plus about $1500.00). Once again, if you're serious about being a medical resource, consider your time well invested.

The US Army SF Field Medical Manual/Emergency War surgery.

Make friends at a supply company/get a prescription for a surgical stapler. [u]THIS IS NOT FOR USE WHEN YOU ARE CLOSER THAN 8 or 12 HOURS TO A DEFINITIVE CARE FACILITY.[/u] You need to know about cleaning/debridement/"sterile" field before you go stapling your buddy's "i was stoopid drunk beer bottle cut foot" injury when you're 45 minutes from an ER.

While we're at it, if we're looking SERIOUS LONG TERM/FAR AWAY stuff...I obviously[b] DO NOT[/b] condone or support use of any of this equipment by untrained persons as [b][u]IT CAN RESULT IN SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH,[/b][/u] far worse than a just a long and uncomfortable trip to a hospital. Before you play with this stuff, learn how to use it. For real, not just "theoretical". [soapbox]

We're not playing here. This is life and death stuff.

(Alright, Karmic liability waiver's been issued...thanks for your patience)

IV fluids and drip sets. Usually Rx, and EMT Intermediate level or higher to use/possess, but if you're stockpiling. 1 liter (1000 ml) bags of 0.9%NaCl (Normal Saline) are a good thing to have. Lactated Ringer's or 5%Dextrose are good, but saline's become the universal fluid for the most part. Forget the 250 bags...they're a waste long tern Pre hospital.

Ignore 60gtt/ml drip sets, go with 10 or 15 gtt/ml.

Angiocaths (Rx). 14,16,18,20 gauge. Ignore 22's and smaller (bigger numbers)

Lots of 4x4's and kling.

SAM splint. Forget tring to make one. Just buy it.

Those Povidone/iodine surgical scrub preps. Usually packaged in a self contained tub. Great for washing out wounds or scrubbing up (before or after)

Gloves. Did I say gloves?

Syringes - 1cc up to 30cc. With and without pre-attached needles. (needled are Rx)

2% Lidocaine injection(w/o Epi)(Rx)for local pain control to do above procedures.

Toradol/Stadol (Rx)(you'll need to be on GOOD terms w/your MD this is schedule)

1:1,000 Epinephrine (adrenaline) for sub-cutaneous injection for anaphylaxis (allergic reaction that shuts down the airway).

Oxygen setup (Rx [whacko]). I know, we breathe 21% all day long, and we need a scrip? But if you're patients compromised, O2's a good thing to have. Don't forget extra cylinders. They make aluminum with a built in handle for the valve...no more missing wrenches.

Bag valve mask, to support respirations. If you're going hard-core, consider a laryngyscope and a set of blades, as well as a set of Endo Tracheal intubation tubes. (Rx) PARAMEDIC SKILL.

If we're dealing with long tern SHTF no-health-care access, consider stocking veterinary grade antibiotics. These are covered in Ragnar Benson's [u]Survivalist first aid book[/u] or some such title. I don't even know if it's still in print, but it talks about a lot of veterinary meds being USP (United States Pharmacopea) - essentially the same as human. Do I condone the routine use of non human Rx meds? NO! Would I in a SHTF situation?

Lovely weather we're having, isn't it [;)]

Remember, ALL meds (including IV fluids) have expiration dates. They're USUALLY good for a while afterwards, but a lot of them lose potency over time and/or require refrigeration.

Something to think about.

Tango7

Tango 7 , I hear you, ok what do you know about using super glue to close a wound, any info would be nice, I know about the medical stuff, but what about super glue over the counter, we are in the 10 th degree here, so most will be lost on this. Also thanks for the book references. I can get anything I want, I have a friend who is a Doctor, thats where I got the emergency use only Demerol.(yes he makes me account for it)

I know that there's a new (to US) "Threadless" suture that uses cyanoacrylate (super glue), but I haven't any experience with it. If you search the web, most med co's have reams of lit for download.

the only ref. I have is using it to make "super butterflies" - i.e. a drop on one side of the wound, lay a piece of suture material/ monofilament in it, apply tension once set to close the wound, then lay it in a drop on the other side. I don't see any reaon why it wouldn't work, but remember - infection is your worst enemy, even in a clinical setting.

Tango7

Infection is always a problematic thing, but in a worst case scenario it is a wait and see thing, after initial treatment, remember when sulfa drugs were used by the military, not that long ago, that is why the vet thing about drugs was not that far out, easy to acquire and effective.(not a recommended course of treatment for sure, but does work kind of thing)

A Bic lighter will only take up the space of a dozen or so matches, and will give hundreds of lights.

Because it works kind of thing.

The Army and marines were using super glue as far back as Vietname.  The stuff came in IV-sized bags.  It was only approved by the FDA in the last two years or so.  I once used it on a woman who sliced her hand open, and the "suture" lasted three days (enough for the wound to start to bind back together).

At the Indy 1500 gun show this weekend, there were people everywhere walking around with boxes of surgical glue that some guy was selling.

I was in Canada fishing(fly in thing) one year and a guy got lost(not of our party), we were drafted to help find him, we did not, but others did, he had died of hypothermia, and was found dead, tried to start a fire with the money in his wallet. He was using a bic(or similar type), they are not good when damp or wet, buy a zippo,or get a good match box, lesson learned by him the hard way. Let us all keep tradeing info, it is valuable.

Well, I don't know the specifics of the guy in Canada, but I've had Bics packed with Middle East sand, frozen with Alaskan ice (at ~ -45 degrees), and slogged through Florida swamps and Korean rice paddies, and it never took me more than a couple of minutes to get a light out of them. Maybe his was out of fuel?

Just my experience. YMMV.

[b][red]I would like to strongly caution against the use of any drugs, in a field treatment situation...[/red][/b]

Sure it is all well and good to help the victim ease his/her pain immediately, but it very much goes against standard medical advice, since you have no way of knowing what possible side effects could arise, and worsen the overall situation.

There are many procedures that will immediately take place at a trauma center, that cannot be done, if any of a number of pain meds have first been given.  These procedures may be what saves your life, so dealing with the pain should at all costs, be a mind-over-matter issue!

It would really suck to have to be given a drug interdiction treatment, before any life saving measures could be taken...  Also, in some cases, certain pain meds can have an adverse reaction and actually magnify the pain that one is experiencing.  I personally have this type of reaction to Hydrocodones ([i]most codeine derivitives and like synthetics[/i]), so if I break my leg, and you give those to me, I'll be really pissed!

[red]Again, I would try to keep this thread geared towards field/wilderness remedies, and leave the IV's, meds and sutures for the docs...  If you screw somebody up, you are taking on a world of problems![/red]

 Downhill, downwind, and downstream will generally lead you to civilization.  It is easier to get found than to stay lost.

The uric acid in urine will break down the urushiol from Poison Ivy (Toxicodendron radicans/Rhus radicans).  

In other words, if you get poisoned, piss on it.

Good point, antiUSSA, and one of the reasons I encouraged interested parties to learn before trying. Additional obvious suggestion:

[;D]IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE IT, DON'T KEEP IT. [8D]

You wouldn't go into a SHTF situation with an unmaintained weapon you didn't know how to use, with ammo of unknown mixed calibers, and a "grab bag" of mixed mags for different weapons and expect to survive in a hostile environment[whacko]...like wise, anybody who would attempt to use said DANGEROUS medical supplies without a [b]thorough[/b] knowledge of their use, and the risks and benefits of said techniques risks the lives of their friends (through negligence, however well-meant)[B)] and themselves (through litigation or guilt)[V]. When SHTF, your brain goes south without training and practice, and a simple mistake can kill or permanently disable. [B)][xx(]

And I included the 1:1,000 Epi partially because of "untoward" reactions! [;)]

Or, as they taught us in class, "don't give something you don't know how to counteract".[>:/]

Tango7

To All:
The survivalist information I have been reading here is better than that found on the survival sites. And it certainly seems to be posted by more experienced people.

A big thank you from me.

Bill

I second this reccomendation based on personal experience.

I was out with them shooting one July in the middle of the desert and it had to have been about 110+ degrees. After a few hours of combat shooting, I was sweating like crazy and drank more than 2 gallons of water. Then I started getting what is called "heat cramps" which is caused by a salt deficiency, as a result of excessive perspiration. If I stood or sat still for longer that a couple minutes, the muscles on the top front of my legs and calves would cramp causing UNBELIEVABLE pain and it made the car ride home a definite experience. When I got back I had to eat a whole handful of salt to get the cramping to stop.

While on the subject of hot weather environments, I read in a survival school article in ASG that a couple tablespoons of apple cider vinegar added to your canteens will help you adapt to the heat better.

Don't rely upon solar stills for your only water supply. They have such a low output you will probably sweat more making one than if you were to go out looking for an alternate water source.

Just remember to regularly rotate out your supply because lightsticks have about a 2 year shelf life.

I discovered the "salt trick", when bicycling across country ([i]Lafayette, IN to Myrtle Beach, SC[/i]), back in '85...  There was a group of 5 of us, that made the 1100 mile journey in 13 days ([i]11 days riding, 2 rest days[/i]).

On one of the worst days of riding, my legs were cramping so bad, that I couldn't peddle, stand, or do much of anything, until one of the other riders showed up with some salt packets, that he had grabbed from a Hardees a couple of days earlier.  Within minutes, I was good to go for another 60-70 miles, without any further cramping or pain.

Ever since that particular day, I have always carried salt packets on outings!

[b]Tip of the day:[/b]

[*] Condoms, when placed over bandages, make the best possible finger dressings, as they will obviously keep dirt and moisture out of a wound.[/*]

My packages say 8 years?  Of course, I had them for 13 years and none of them worked.

[*] This next recommendation, will no doubt have the children (read: idiots) on the boards laughing, but it is certainly no laughing matter![/*]

With any type of trauma to the abdominal or groin regions, one should always check for anal and/or vaginal bleeding, as these would normally be the first signs of severe internal bleeding, that would certainly change the entire perspective on stabilizing or moving the victim.

As a river guide, this was a general practice when a "swimmer" got wishboned ( <+ ) by a rock...  When possible, we had female guide staff along to assist women when necessary.

One thing to always keep in mind, modesty is a joke, when your well being is at risk!

Great stuff guys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please keep it up as this is GREAT INFO for all of us uneducated folks .

Actually, I was thinking, that we should let all of you uneducated types die off quickly, and then we wouldn't have to worry about caring for and feeding you guys...

- THEN -

We'll take YOUR weapons and womenz!

So that's why I've never had athletes foot. I guess bad aim does pay off.

There was a story that surfaced a few years ago, where Dennis Rodman stated that he routinly stands in a bucket of his urine, to combat athlete's foot.

I heard of this remedy from my father who said when he was solider, they did this, when nothing else could be found/utilized. Necesessity the mother of invention.

Can apple vinegar be used to disinfect water also, when boiling, chlorine and iodine are not options ??

This is going to be gross, but we are talking survival, and to survive you have to be strong like these guys were. In Japanese POW camps medical attention was nil, so to clean wounds they used maggots to eat dead tissue and help wounds heal(helping to prevent gangrene), I have only found one current reference material on this.  NOTE, they did say it was important to keep the maggots out of the intestines as they would kill you if they got entry ?? I guess this means keeping them out of the rectal area.

Are you sure it wasn't his head?  How else do you explain that hair and that face? [:D]

It may be obvious, but in addition to everything else mentioned I would include sunblock and good head covering.  The head cover is especially important in cold climates, as the human body loses more heat from the head than anywhere else.

Both "surgical maggotts" and "surgical leaches" are currently being raised in controlled sterile labs, and sold through medical supply houses.

Very recently, there was a TV program about this, and this practice is still very much in use today!

The show that I watched, featured a man that had lost his arm in an accident, and after being reattached, leaches were placed on his fingers to regulate blood flow through the healing process.  As I recall, they also mentioned the use of maggotts to eradicate the dead tissue in severe burn victims, where it would be detrimental to physically or medically remove the damaged flesh.

The use of maggots does work well, I have had to do it myself...

You uncover the wound (ONLY if there is necrotic tissue, like Jungle Rot or other necrosis.  If the tissue is healthy and knitting, do NOT do this!) and let flies land on it.  Recover the wound and check 3x daily.

Allow the maggots to ingest necrotic tissue until the first twinges of pain is felt (this is LIVE tissue being eaten!)  Have others in the party rinse the maggots from the wound - fresh urine works well for this.

Side note - Urine is actually sterile when it first leaves the body.  Also, the antibiotic action of urine is due (in the main) to the high salt content and concentration of Uric acid present.  It is not recommended to flush the urine away with water unless it has been heavily Iodised, as there are often microbes in the water (can you say Giardia?) which will cause infection anew.

Trivia point - Urine can also be used as a basis for a crystalline explosive.  Urea Nitrate can then be crushed and bound with a plasticiser for easier use...

FFZ

This makes for a compound that is very similar to both Mercury Fulminate and Iodide Crystals.