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Posted: 7/19/2008 9:08:31 AM EDT
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:13:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gene5:
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?


Allah says I will get 70 virgins upon my successful sucide.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:15:47 AM EDT
Which God?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:16:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Silence:
Which God?


never mind! i knew this was a waste of time
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:19:40 AM EDT
If you want serious answers post this in the religion forum, not GD.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:20:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gene5:
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?


Exactly what I was taught.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:21:40 AM EDT
It depends. If you're just sad and do it, yeah, that's an abomination. On the other hand, there comes a moment in time when you're in enough pain with no hope of recovery, when your family is watching you waste away... It can become an act of mercy. Mercy for your own pain and mercy for your family so they don't have to see you go out slow and dirty.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:22:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ToyCop:
If you want serious answers post this in the religion forum, not GD.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:22:35 AM EDT
abomination - i had one friend and one relative kill themselves and still say that
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:23:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gene5:

Originally Posted By Silence:
Which God?


never mind! i knew this was a waste of time


Its kind of the point though. No matter what you want to say theres a religion out there that promotes or condemns it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:25:01 AM EDT
It was not in God's design for us to kill ourselves!

www.christiananswers.net/q-dml/dml-y038.html

- Clint
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:45:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By xdoctor:
It depends. If you're just sad and do it, yeah, that's an abomination. On the other hand, there comes a moment in time when you're in enough pain with no hope of recovery, when your family is watching you waste away... It can become an act of mercy. Mercy for your own pain and mercy for your family so they don't have to see you go out slow and dirty.


God doesn't care what your family thinks about you wasting away and dying slowly. He never said, "and if you don't want your family to see you suffer, then kill yourself" in the bible. I believe that if God said don't do it, then we aren't at liberty to decide to do it because we don't want others to see us suffer. There can be a lot of pain and suffering on this earth. That is due to Adam and Eve's sin against God in the beginning. But one day, if we accept Jesus into our heart, we will go to a place where there is NO suffering.

The Devil will do whatever it takes to keep you/us from going there and convincing you that it is OK for you to kill yourself just before you pass on and make it into Heaven is on par with the way he works! About the only way I can see that it would be remotely OK for us to kill ourselves is if we are in the process of saving other lives and in that process giving up our own life doing so. (ei, an injured/dieing soldier jumping on the proverbial hand grenade tossed into a room full of soldiers) I'm not 100% sure about that last point, at this very moment but I will do some research on the subject and suggest everyone else do the same!

- Clint
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:48:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Alaskacajun:

Originally Posted By xdoctor:
It depends. If you're just sad and do it, yeah, that's an abomination. On the other hand, there comes a moment in time when you're in enough pain with no hope of recovery, when your family is watching you waste away... It can become an act of mercy. Mercy for your own pain and mercy for your family so they don't have to see you go out slow and dirty.


God doesn't care what your family thinks about you wasting away and dying slowly. He never said, "and if you don't want your family to see you suffer, then kill yourself" in the bible. I believe that if God said don't do it, then we aren't at liberty to decide to do it because we don't want others to see us suffer. There can be a lot of pain and suffering on this earth. That is due to Adam and Eve's sin against God in the beginning. But one day, if we accept Jesus into our heart, we will go to a place where there is NO suffering.

The Devil will do whatever it takes to keep you/us from going there and convincing you that it is OK for you to kill yourself just before you pass on and make it into Heaven is on par with the way he works! About the only way I can see that it would be remotely OK for us to kill ourselves is if we are in the process of saving other lives and in that process giving up our own life doing so. (ei, an injured/dieing soldier jumping on the proverbial hand grenade tossed into a room full of soldiers) I'm not 100% sure about that last point, at this very moment but I will do some research on the subject and suggest everyone else do the same!

- Clint


something about "no greater love has a man, than to give his life for a friend" or sumtin like that.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:50:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:51:07 AM EDT by Cypher214]

Originally Posted By gene5:

Originally Posted By Silence:
Which God?


never mind! i knew this was a waste of time


You say that like we're all supposed to automatically know which religion you adhere to.

Get a clue.

Every religion has their own version of god and they all have different methods for worshiping it/him/they/she.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:53:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Alaskacajun:

Originally Posted By xdoctor:
It depends. If you're just sad and do it, yeah, that's an abomination. On the other hand, there comes a moment in time when you're in enough pain with no hope of recovery, when your family is watching you waste away... It can become an act of mercy. Mercy for your own pain and mercy for your family so they don't have to see you go out slow and dirty.


God doesn't care what your family thinks about you wasting away and dying slowly. He never said, "and if you don't want your family to see you suffer, then kill yourself" in the bible. I believe that if God said don't do it, then we aren't at liberty to decide to do it because we don't want others to see us suffer. There can be a lot of pain and suffering on this earth. That is due to Adam and Eve's sin against God in the beginning. But one day, if we accept Jesus into our heart, we will go to a place where there is NO suffering.

The Devil will do whatever it takes to keep you/us from going there and convincing you that it is OK for you to kill yourself just before you pass on and make it into Heaven is on par with the way he works! About the only way I can see that it would be remotely OK for us to kill ourselves is if we are in the process of saving other lives and in that process giving up our own life doing so. (ei, an injured/dieing soldier jumping on the proverbial hand grenade tossed into a room full of soldiers) I'm not 100% sure about that last point, at this very moment but I will do some research on the subject and suggest everyone else do the same!

- Clint


Any God who would punish someone who did such a heroic thing isn't one worth worshiping.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:55:59 AM EDT
If the Bible says taking ones own life is wrong - period - I'd like to see a book, chapter and verse quote on that.

I can't fathom The Almighty sending somebody to hell for diving on a grenade, pushing a child out of the path of a train when he KNEW he couldn't get out too, or taking his own life so all the money he ever saved for his family wouldn't be eaten up in a rest home with strangers changing his diapers.

IF IT'S Biblical, show me where.

What is Christ's opinion of a man laying down his own life for a friend?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:56:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GrIlLa:

Originally Posted By gene5:
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?


Exactly what I was taught.


Book, chapter and verse quote, please.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:57:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spenser_Burrows:
Any God who would punish someone who did such a heroic thing isn't one worth worshiping.


But you're not going to be finding that out until you've gone through life worshipping him and died to find out you chose poorly.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:57:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gene5:

Originally Posted By Silence:
Which God?


never mind! i knew this was a waste of time


so why stir the pot?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:02:50 AM EDT
Suicide is wrong. It won't send you to hell, but its isnt God design for your life.

The proverbial jumping on the grenade to save your buddies is not really the same as suicide IMHO.

But killing yourself because you are in pain dying from cancer is wrong imho.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:05:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gene5:

Originally Posted By Alaskacajun:

Originally Posted By xdoctor:
It depends. If you're just sad and do it, yeah, that's an abomination. On the other hand, there comes a moment in time when you're in enough pain with no hope of recovery, when your family is watching you waste away... It can become an act of mercy. Mercy for your own pain and mercy for your family so they don't have to see you go out slow and dirty.


God doesn't care what your family thinks about you wasting away and dying slowly. He never said, "and if you don't want your family to see you suffer, then kill yourself" in the bible. I believe that if God said don't do it, then we aren't at liberty to decide to do it because we don't want others to see us suffer. There can be a lot of pain and suffering on this earth. That is due to Adam and Eve's sin against God in the beginning. But one day, if we accept Jesus into our heart, we will go to a place where there is NO suffering.

The Devil will do whatever it takes to keep you/us from going there and convincing you that it is OK for you to kill yourself just before you pass on and make it into Heaven is on par with the way he works! About the only way I can see that it would be remotely OK for us to kill ourselves is if we are in the process of saving other lives and in that process giving up our own life doing so. (ei, an injured/dieing soldier jumping on the proverbial hand grenade tossed into a room full of soldiers) I'm not 100% sure about that last point, at this very moment but I will do some research on the subject and suggest everyone else do the same!

- Clint


something about "no greater love has a man, than to give his life for a friend" or sumtin like that.


That one right there is in the Book. A statement made by Christ himself.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:07:10 AM EDT
if it bothers god enough I guess he can do something about it
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:07:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gene5:
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?


I wouldn't stake my life on it, but I lean towards agreeing with this guy:


www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/TopicIndex/118_Suicide/

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:09:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By GrIlLa:

Originally Posted By gene5:
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?


Exactly what I was taught.


Book, chapter and verse quote, please.


+1

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:11:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 10:17:46 AM EDT by GrIlLa]

Originally Posted By a3kid:
If the Bible says taking ones own life is wrong - period - I'd like to see a book, chapter and verse quote on that.

I can't fathom The Almighty sending somebody to hell for diving on a grenade, pushing a child out of the path of a train when he KNEW he couldn't get out too, or taking his own life so all the money he ever saved for his family wouldn't be eaten up in a rest home with strangers changing his diapers.

IF IT'S Biblical, show me where.

What is Christ's opinion of a man laying down his own life for a friend?



I Corinthians 3:17


edit. I'm wrong .....hold for more info.


Okay sorry I just wanted to make sure of my versus.Thats the one that came to mind. It's correct.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:12:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spenser_Burrows:


Any God who would punish someone who did such a heroic thing isn't one worth worshiping.


Yeah... it's never been a big concern of mine to know weather or not it was OK in that particular situation because I doubt I'll ever be given that particular oppurtunity. I was just using that situation as an example because many of us have served and can relate to it. There are plenty of situations where we could end up sacrificing ourselves that I believe wouldn't hender our passage into Heaven but would be considered by most to be "suicide!"

For instance, one could say that what a firefighter does is wreckless at times when they enter a burning building to save a child. In our mind it is crazy and dangerous. But think of how many people are saved every year by firefighters. Think of how many firefighters die doing their job. You could say that what a firefighter is doing could be considered "suicide"... he's running into a burning building, there's a lot of potential for death there... but I believe if he has given his heart to the Lord and dies while trying to do his job, he'll go to Heaven.

Look at people who jump in a raging river trying to save a drowning person and drown themselves. I believe if they are right with God when they do it then they are OK. They didn't intentionally kill themselves, they were trying to save another person. They laid down their life with the intention of saving another. They sacrificed themselves to preserve life. I think the situation dictates the outcome of your eternal life, but to kill yourself so others don't see you suffer is selfish and I don't believe you will be able to justify your actions to the Lord when He judges you for it.

Again, this is something that ya'll need to pray about and ask God to reveal His plan to you. Don't take my word for it...

- Clint
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:14:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 10:20:35 AM EDT by a3kid]
Edited - stupid post
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:19:01 AM EDT
What if you're schizophrenic or severely depressed?

Are you to be punished because your brain isn't working in such a way to even allow hope, happiness, or logic?

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:19:13 AM EDT
Well, since there is no god, no, it's not an abomination to to "him"
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:19:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 10:21:35 AM EDT by Alaskacajun]

Originally Posted By a3kid:
If the Bible says taking ones own life is wrong - period - I'd like to see a book, chapter and verse quote on that.

I can't fathom The Almighty sending somebody to hell for diving on a grenade, pushing a child out of the path of a train when he KNEW he couldn't get out too, or taking his own life so all the money he ever saved for his family wouldn't be eaten up in a rest home with strangers changing his diapers.

IF IT'S Biblical, show me where.

What is Christ's opinion of a man laying down his own life for a friend?


LINK to bible versus and what the bible has to say about suicide

This website seems to be very clear about what the bible says!

- Clint
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:20:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 10:24:19 AM EDT by Alaskacajun]
Originally Posted By a3kid:
edited because you edited yours...quote]

I agree with you. It was in God's plan for Jesus Christ to die for our sins and he did.

- Clint

ETA: a3kid, I edited your quote because you edited your post!
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:21:24 AM EDT
What I don't get about people saying that it's wrong for someone with terminal cancer to kill themselves is that they've already extended their life months or years beyond when they would've died, through the magic of modern medicine. If it's wrong to end your own life, isn't it wrong to sustain it unnaturally?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:24:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Desdinova721:
What I don't get about people saying that it's wrong for someone with terminal cancer to kill themselves is that they've already extended their life months or years beyond when they would've died, through the magic of modern medicine. If it's wrong to end your own life, isn't it wrong to sustain it unnaturally?

This man has a point. And a good one at that.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:24:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By adfinder23:
What if you're schizophrenic or severely depressed?

Are you to be punished because your brain isn't working in such a way to even allow hope, happiness, or logic?



That's another example I struggle with.

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:26:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Alaskacajun:
Originally Posted By a3kid:
edited because you edited yours...quote]

I agree with you. It was in God's plan for Jesus Christ to die for our sins and he did.

- Clint

ETA: a3kid, I edited your quote because you edited your post!


Thanks. That was really stupid and I bet you were typing furiously.

Christ allowed others to take His life. As was written. He didn't fall on a sword on purpose by any means. Completely different subject.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:27:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gene5:
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?



it isn't any worse than any other sin. catholic doctrine is messed up on this area, in addition to others.

God is used to us making decisions that go against his will (which i believe suicide is). God is bigger than us saying "i'll control the end of my life". he lets us control all of our life anyway.


Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:36:13 AM EDT

Now that there is so much talk about suicide being okay it must be so much easier to off someone and make it appear a suicide. Basically frame the victim, its not like they can say otherwise.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:37:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gene5:
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?


This is the same kinda crap the anti gunners have told me as to why I shouldn't be able to take another persons life.

"So what if he stole several million, punched an old women in a face and raped her, his life is a gift from god and its not our right to choose to take it away"

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:39:27 AM EDT
suicide is a cowards way out. go out screaming like a man
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:40:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:

Originally Posted By gene5:
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?


This is the same kinda crap the anti gunners have told me as to why I shouldn't be able to take another persons life.

"So what if he stole several million, punched an old women in a face and raped her, his life is a gift from god and its not our right to choose to take it away"



I thought we were talking about suicide.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:40:38 AM EDT
As an atheist I'd still say it's generally wrong. In my view you only have one life to live, throwing it away prematurely is just silly. The damage you do to those left behind is more important than ending your own pain. In certain circumstances (terminal illness) I not only think it's ok, I think it's probably the best course of action. I'd rather have the ability to put myself out of my misery if I found myself permanently incapacitated or terminally (and painfully) ill.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:42:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 10:43:55 AM EDT by happycynic]
Suicide is certainly wrong in most circumstances in that it causes great pain to others, but I don't see it as unforgivable. I believe in reincarnation and universal salvation. Whatever lesson you tried to escape with suicide will eventually have to be re-learned, so all you accomplish is causing pain to your friends and family. That being said people make mistakes, and I think a suicide or suicidal person deserves our love and sympathy moreso than the contept usually spewed in arfcom GD suicide threads.

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:44:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gene5:
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?


Its between the individual and their god. Not really any body's business if you ask me.

Besides, any yahoo that offs himself has just upgraded the gene pool.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:45:17 AM EDT
I couldn't care less about anyone's idea of God.

Suicide, except in a few circumstances, is an abomination to your family and everyone who cares for you.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:45:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GrIlLa:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:

Originally Posted By gene5:
at least thats what i was taught.that our greatest gift is our life, given to us by god.and it,s not ours to take.with all these suicides,and the one thread running about it,what do you think?


This is the same kinda crap the anti gunners have told me as to why I shouldn't be able to take another persons life.

"So what if he stole several million, punched an old women in a face and raped her, his life is a gift from god and its not our right to choose to take it away"



I thought we were talking about suicide.


Thats the topic at hand, but I'm simply saying that the OP's argument against suicide is BS, much like how others use the exact same argument to rally against the death penalty and to some extent, self defense.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:47:48 AM EDT
My girlfriend killed herself in 2000 and I still think it was selfish act.

We don't think she really meant to do it but she died from it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:48:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By whomper:
any yahoo that offs himself has just upgraded the gene pool.


Yeah, glad we got rid of people like Ernest Hemmingway. He never contributed anything to society.

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:48:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 10:52:02 AM EDT by Alaskacajun]

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By adfinder23:
What if you're schizophrenic or severely depressed?

Are you to be punished because your brain isn't working in such a way to even allow hope, happiness, or logic?



That's another example I struggle with.



I believe that if you are severly depressed enough to commit suicide, then you probably aren't serving the Lord, and that you are allowing the Devil to control your mind. The bible teaches that our mind is the Devil's playground. He's the great deceiver, that he's the destroyer of all things. I believe that if you are greatly depressed it's because the Devil is working on you hard. I believe that if you cry out to the Lord and ask him to come into your heart you'll be saved and healed.

Now if you are already a Christian and are depressed you need to get help fast. Consult your pastor, or get other Christians to pray for you. The bible says that all we have to do is tell the Devil to leave us (rebuke) alone and he has to. I just heard a great message on this very subject by Doctor Charles Stanley called "Resisting the Devil A&B!"

www.intouch.org/site/c.dhKHIXPKIuE/b.2295509/k.9338/Audio_Archives.htm

- Clint
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:54:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CB1:
suicide is a cowards way out. go out screaming like a man


"I came into this world screaming and covered with somebody else's blood. I got no problem going out the same way."
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:59:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Alaskacajun:

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By adfinder23:
What if you're schizophrenic or severely depressed?

Are you to be punished because your brain isn't working in such a way to even allow hope, happiness, or logic?



That's another example I struggle with.



I believe that if you are severly depressed enough to commit suicide, then you probably aren't serving the Lord, and that you are allowing the Devil to control your mind. The bible teaches that our mind is the Devil's playground. He's the great deceiver, that he's the destroyer of all things. I believe that if you are greatly depressed it's because the Devil is working on you hard. I believe that if you cry out to the Lord and ask him to come into your heart you'll be saved and healed.

Now if you are already a Christian and are depressed you need to get help fast. Consult your pastor, or get other Christians to pray for you. The bible says that all we have to do is tell the Devil to leave us (rebuke) alone and he has to. I just heard a great message on this very subject by Doctor Charles Stanley called "Resisting the Devil A&B!"

www.intouch.org/site/c.dhKHIXPKIuE/b.2295509/k.9338/Audio_Archives.htm

- Clint


So all you have to do to cure a lifetime of mental illness is "rebuke the devil"?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:01:58 AM EDT
You fail to recognize that many people do not share your beliefs or values.
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