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12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 2/26/2007 3:54:45 AM EST
I received this today.....
for what it is worth. He made his point, but I still get a sense of "we are better than you" feeling. That annoys me.

Thanks for taking the time to write. You were one of many gun owners to write to me regarding my recent statements in the Washington Post. I understand your concern. I was not complimentary about the actions of people involved in the Internet destruction of Jim Zumbo's career.

My feelings about those actions will not change. Those of you who took part in the assault on Zumbo lost an opportunity to turn him around, to educate him and to change him into an outstanding spokesman for your beliefs. He offered, in his initial apology, to do exactly that. Instead, you went for the jugular and completed his fall. Your action was fast, furious and, like so many other internet-based actions, without the benefit of deliberation or serious discussion. It was, very simply, a high tech lynching conducted by an enraged mob. If being described as part of a lynch mob bothers you, perhaps you should consider the description next time you are tempted to go on the attack.

Speaking of attack, a number of you told me in no uncertain terms to expect treatment 'like Zumbo got.' My response is this; I'm going to do what I think is right. You should do the same. Let the chips fall where they may.

If we're going to have a serious disagreement, you should know who I am. I have been a member of the NRA for nearly 25 years, and believe strongly in their 2nd Amendment mission. I need them to help me protect the semi-automatic firearms in my safe. Several of them are 'assault rifles' beginning with my 1873 Springfield .45-70 and going forward to World War II weapons. I also own several other semi-automatic firearms and will fight any attempt to outlaw them. I don't own an AR 15, not because I don't believe in our right to own them, but because I'm not impressed with the caliber. I use a .22-250 for varmints.

I spent 20 years in the United States Marine Corps and doubt that any one of you is more dedicated to our country or the Constitution than I am. I oppose gun registration because I don't want the government to be able to take my firearms. I recognize the need for an armed citizenry and intend to be a part of it.

In short, I don't have a problem with your firearms or your right to own them. I own them myself. I will not be a part of a divide-and-conquer strategy aimed at gun owners. I do have a major problem with the mob psychology some of you exhibited over the past week. It was despicable. Period.

If you want a more complete view of my feelings on the Zumbo situation I invite you to visit the following website. gtconnect.com/articles/2007/02/25/sports/venture/1ven01_wray.txt

It is a column that came out today in the Corvallis Gazette-Times.

Sincerely,

Pat Wray
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 3:59:51 AM EST
So some how it's our fault.........

No body wants to take responsibility for their own actions any more.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 4:26:54 AM EST
I learned a long time ago when you step on your own balls its nobodies fault but your own. Don't blame those that pointed out the facts. If it was just a bunch of cry babies jumping up and down about some minor thing NON of his Sponsors would have dropped him like that did. So I am guessing they felt the same way we all did. Pat might want to be careful who he is pointing fingers at!
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 4:31:27 AM EST
I do not believe for one second someone who starts from a point where AR15 owners are terrorists CAN be given an "opportunity to turn him around, to educate him and to change him into an outstanding spokesman for your beliefs".

Same goes for those who make the case and attempt to defend such foolishness.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 4:33:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/26/2007 4:34:31 AM EST by -RotorDemon-]
Edit: Nevermind.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 4:36:56 AM EST
The point was made, whether he likes how it went or not. The positive that comes out of this is: hopefully this will send a message to ANYONE who tries to deny us our Constitutionally guaranteed rights. We need to stop the witch hunt and focus our efforts in the political arena now.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 4:39:02 AM EST
FUCK HIM.

This "eat your own" stuff is pissing me off, because thats EXACTLY what THEy wanted to do to US.

Its ok for them to "eat their own" and sell us down the river, but as soon as we stand up OHHH WAIT its bad cause we're "eating our own".

They can kiss my white ass. Both cheeks in fact.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 4:46:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 5:04:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By CB1:
Those of you who took part in the assault on Zumbo lost an opportunity to turn him around, to educate him and to change him into an outstanding spokesman for your beliefs. He offered, in his initial apology, to do exactly that. Instead, you went for the jugular and completed his fall. Your action was fast, furious and, like so many other internet-based actions, without the benefit of deliberation or serious discussion. It was, very simply, a high tech lynching conducted by an enraged mob. If being described as part of a lynch mob bothers you, perhaps you should consider the description next time you are tempted to go on the attack.


Pretty much what Zumbo did to us.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 5:52:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/26/2007 5:54:06 AM EST by long-rifle-tactical]
Quote from the article:

In a few short days the career of the best known hunting writer in America was served in small bloody pieces to a crowd of vicious, vengeful, vitriolic jackals. This is worth analysis.

Edited to add Pats website

http://www.patwray.com/
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 5:57:54 AM EST
Ok after reading that.......

I wasn't going to go after this guy, but after reading this condescending letter, blaming us......


I am going after him.


Sorry, thats just fucked up.


Blame us? Sorry, thats uncalled for. I am going after this guy.



Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:11:17 AM EST
Wray was, a few months ago, pimping for the AHSA, an anti-gun front organization that wants to ban BMGs, "cop killer bullets", and assault weapons.

He's a lefty hunter who has a feud with the NRA because he thinks they aren't supportive enough of wilderness areas. He's so tied up in the feud that he's willing to support gun grabbers like the AHSA.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:16:21 AM EST
Media types have huge egos. They hate it when we little people question them.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:21:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/26/2007 6:22:14 AM EST by KangarooAR-15A3]
Heres what I wrote to him:



Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:08:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Matthew Hiller" <vmf312a@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Thanks for Calling US a Mob.
To: patwray@comcast.net



Pat,


I was not really mad at your comments that I saw in the Washington Post until your letter to another of our members was posted.

You blame us for Zumbos demise. Zumbos words are being used by the Brady Campaign, as I am sure now your words will be as well.

This is not about dividing shooters, we are making a real effort to unite shooters, but calling us jackals and an angry mob because we defend our right to choose what weapons to own?

Come on now, this is not about hunters versus shooters. This is about the 2nd Amendment.

We got rid of Zumbo, we did it because he is dangerous to the 2nd A. His statements are being used by every gun grabber in the country. Hate to go after every single person, but we will go after anyone who has a platform and attempts to infringe on our Constitutional Rights.

A mob? No. A voice, a voice of gun owners who realize it is not just about hunting deer. I don't even hunt. I own several firearms, train regularly, and am proficient with more types of guns than you can probably name. And I care about the 2nd!

Being a "mob" may be all we can do, but if it keeps those who threaten our rights from having a public voice then so be it. Unfortunately after reading your letter it looks as though a "Firemission" may be started on Pat Wray. Some of you guys just don't get it. We may act like a "mob" but after we do.... you will no longer have a platform from which to attack our rights or give material to those who would take away our rights.


Respectfully,

Matt Hiller

Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:26:22 AM EST
Fuck him. I agree no one defending zumbo wants to acknoledge what he said, but just blame the "mob" for what happened. He still hasnt apologized for calling people who dont use AR15's for hunting terrorists- he said he was sorry that he didnt know SOME people use them for LEGITIMATE HUNTING purposes. So if you dont use them for LHP you are still a terrorist.

Zumbo got what he deserved, and its all the panty wastes that defend him who are the same ones who dont like people owning modern military rifles.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:26:47 AM EST
That group of brave men on the green in Concord was also considered an "angry mob" by the imperial boot lickers.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:42:49 AM EST
mcgredo dug up a bunch of dirt on this guy in another thread. Here are some links for this Zumbo, only this guy is worse as he is a shill for gun grabbers.

http://www.americanhuntersandshooters.org/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=33

http://gazettetimes.com/articles/2006/07/03/sports/venture/vent1.prt

http://www.gunweek.com/2006/AHSA0710.html

http://gtconnect.com/articles/2007/02/25/sports/venture/1ven01_wray.txt


Read up, know the enemy within.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:43:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
FUCK HIM.

This "eat your own" stuff is pissing me off, because thats EXACTLY what THEy wanted to do to US.

Its ok for them to "eat their own" and sell us down the river, but as soon as we stand up OHHH WAIT its bad cause we're "eating our own".

They can kiss my white ass. Both cheeks in fact.


+1,000,000,000

Why can't these asshats see your point? They can spit in our face and we just have to stand there and smile? I think many of the hunters don't understand the bullshit we AR guys had to up with for the 10-year period that the AWB was in effect. So we have already been the victims of being eaten by our own guys.

Fuck us once, shame on you. Fuck us twice, shame on us.

I don't want to win over Zumbo. He attacked us with his ignorant posts. Don't coddle your enemies. Destroy them.

ARFCOM 1

Zumbo 0
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:44:25 AM EST
PS,

That canned letter you got is the same one everyone else got. He doesn't have the balls to talk to gun owners, but he'll damn sure spout of to the papers.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:49:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
That group of brave men on the green in Concord was also considered an "angry mob" by the imperial boot lickers.


You mean Lexington, And no, it wasn't an angry mob. It was an outnumbered militia unit in the process of being disprersed by the CO, Capt. John Parker, who wanted no fight with his own army, the British Army, at least while they outnumbered his men ten to one.

The "angry mob" was actually the ranks of the British Army there, out of control, and firing/bayonetting, after a shot rang out. Nobody knows who fired that first shot. The colonists at Lexington Green died like dogs- they had already unloaded their muskets and were about to go home, when the British turned up after all. It was not a heroic sight, it was more like Tien-an-me'en Square in Beijing in 1989, an abject slaughter.

Concord North Bridge was a different story, but the Common or green in Concord was unoccupied by colonial soldiers that day.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:55:25 AM EST
I post the following in response to Mr. Wray's column in the Gazette Times:


Mr. Wray, your anger is misplaced. Neither the NRA not the individual people who condemned Mr. Zumbo's reprehensible column are responsible for Mr. Zumbo's demise. Rather, Mr. Zumbo himself is responsible due to his own actions of labeling owners of so-called assault weapons as terrorists and calling for their ban. Although the socialist mindset of today recoils at the thought of individual responsibility and reflexively strives to blame others for personal failings, in the real world actions continue to have consequences as Mr. Zumbo discovered.

Furthermore, you appear to be out of touch with regard to the agenda of the gun control lobby. They are indeed out to take our guns as anyone who has paid even passing attention to legislative action over the years would be well aware. I offer as just a few examples the California and New York assault weapon bans, the 922 non-sporting weapons ban and the 1994 federal assault weapons ban. Have you already forgotten Senator Feinstein's proclamation? "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it."

You may also wish to look up Senator Kennedy's comments about the "unconscionable" sale of .30-30 ammunition in American. And if all that isn't enough to convince you, please consider the experiences of our brethren in Britain and Australia, and reflect on the wholesale confiscation of all types firearms they have suffered in recent decades.

Perhaps what you really mean is that you think no one is out to take _your_ guns. But I know, by their current actions, that the gun-control lobby is out to take my guns. At this very moment I and my fellow Maryland firearms owners are in a dire struggle against SB-43 that would ban a broad number of rifles and handguns, not to mention the dramatically expanded AWB bill HR-1022 currently being proposed at the federal level.

Beware, Mr. Wray. Today's classic hunting rifle too easily becomes tomorrow's long-range, high-powered, optically enhanced armor-piercing sniper rifle, and thus becomes the next target of the gun grabbers. This is the point we were trying to stress to Mr. Zumbo, but he did not understand. Perhaps you don't understand either.

Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:57:58 AM EST
AHSA- BAD people. One of their founders, John Rosenthal



was one of the architects of Massachusetts's draconian gun laws.

www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/01/07/make_federal_laws_to_reduce_gun_access/

www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/03/31/somebodys_watching/

newsbusters.org/node/7390

One very BAD man.

Link Posted: 2/26/2007 6:58:39 AM EST
How dare this guy bring up the "devide and conquer" bullshit. Isn't that what Zumbo got trashed for?!
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 7:00:23 AM EST
Call me a terrorist and some how thats supporting the 2nd amendment? Hmmmmm...
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 7:07:12 AM EST
Pat Wray is in bed with the anti's and liberals. He is a traitor like Zumbo. Here is Wray, a "who the hell is this" bird hunter/writer who scrambles to run his mouth to the Washignton Post and codemn the gun community for policing our own. Hopefully, just like Zumbo's fate, this idiot will go down in infamy as well. Pat, you put yourself on the radar, you condemned us, insulted us, and committed treason against the RKBA.

Go to the birds Wray!
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 8:11:26 AM EST
I'll have to agree with you guys...Zumbo's lost complete credibility with me. I also take issue that we ARE the problem because we don't stand by Zumbo like Ted Nugent wants us to believe him to be the new "upgraded" golden boy out to save us as some new resurrected messaiah who has been shown the truth. Ted and Pat can have Zumbo if they want. SWAT magazine can forget about my subscription after offering Zumbo to write an article for their magazine. I stll remember Hanoi Jane and won't support her...Zumbo is no different in my book...he gave aid and comfort to the enemy. You can't take that back.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 8:33:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/26/2007 9:03:40 AM EST by FredZiffle]

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
Media types have huge egos. They hate it when we little people question them.



Exactly...them and Hollywood types, too...


BTW who the heck is this person???Pat Wray?

fred
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 9:04:26 AM EST
Probably emailing Wray is a waste of time... or worse. Might be like spam, where if you answer they just know the message is getting out.

Let's start by reviewing his book, which we have all read often enough:

Chukar Hunter's Companion

Then, let's answer this guy in the general media, where he works.

And, let's continue to get the word around to everybody in our camp, to be on the lookout for him. The gun-owning, Constitution respecting, non-fake hunting community must let the world know that he is not one of us, and does not speak for us.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 9:24:50 AM EST
You can bet that Brady, etc will happily quote Zumbo when they push for the next AWB. "Look", they'll crow, "even respected veteran hunters like Zumbo think black rifles should be banned".

That will be Zumbo's legacy.


ckmorley
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 9:47:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By FredZiffle:

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
Media types have huge egos. They hate it when we little people question them.



Exactly...them and Hollywood types, too...


BTW who the heck is this person???Pat Wray?

fred


Who is Pat Wray? He's a legend in his own mind.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 12:04:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By 95thFoot:

Originally Posted By FredZiffle:

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
Media types have huge egos. They hate it when we little people question them.



Exactly...them and Hollywood types, too...


BTW who the heck is this person???Pat Wray?

fred


Who is Pat Wray? He's a legend in his own mind.


Link Posted: 2/26/2007 5:32:26 PM EST
I got the same form letter reply from Mr. Wray. I really love this line of his response "I spent 20 years in the United States Marine Corps and doubt that any one of you is more dedicated to our country or the Constitution than I am. I oppose gun registration because I don't want the government to be able to take my firearms." He must be one of those Marines like Jack Murtha, the kind that will sell his fellow Marines down the line just to protect his ass.

The other part I love is this line " I have been a member of the NRA for nearly 25 years, and believe strongly in their 2nd Amendment mission." Then why did he make it seem like all the members of the NRA are mindless drones that can do nothing on their own without the NRA directing them to??? Only his super intelligent ass has the correct type of tinfoil to block the NRA mindcontrol devices??? The rest of us who are members of the NRA just don't get it I guess.

Basically the message I am getting from the Zumbo, Petzal and Wray is this "Comprimise is the the answer to all our fears. Give up the bad, scary guns and the honest, well meaning socialists, I er mean democrats, will let us keep our good guns. Really, they promised to not touch our Perazzi and Beretta over and unders. You can trust me, I am a gun guy, see the the bullets come out on this end, I think."

After these 3 dipshits, I am waiting to see who is going to be the next "gun guy" to open his mouth saying we went to far getting Zumbo fired.

In a weird kind of way I am glad Zumbo opened his mouth like he did. We finally are getting to see who is on our side and who is not. I hope more of the so called "defenders" of the 2nd Amendement come out and spout off more stupid shit. Maybe this can be a housecleaning of sorts. Hopefully the NRA, GOA, JPFO and other groups that support the 2nd will be able to see if they have been duped by their spokespersons and board members. This could really turn out to be a positive if we keep the momentum up and going. I also hope that the US Congress and the state legislatures are taking notice of what is happening. No matter how much these anti gun politicians hate us and our guns, they like thier jobs more, and if we keep them nervous enough, then we are doing the right thing.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 8:12:48 PM EST
These "spokesmen" who advocate compromise are either extremely naïve or complete turncoats. Afterall, Zumbo started this whole incident by essentially calling gun owners who shoot AR-15s "terrorists". That, is sacrificing fellow gun owners; now he complains of "eating one of our own".

Here is an exact quote of mine posted in a parallel post on compromise. If any of the Zumbo defenders are reading this, consider me a jackel:



Does anybody here realize Politics is all about compromise?




Yup. And we did our compromising back in in 1787 (Constitution) and 1791 (Bill of Rights)when we debated, negotiated, and agreed upon the Bill of Rights. As I see it, the compromising on the issues within are a done deal; no more compromises are required.

I'll put it another way, if you negotiate a fixed rate mortgage contract with a bank, sign it, and a few years later the bank wants to raise the interest on your loan what do you do? Compromise? Bullshit.

The Bill of Rights has been ratified. No compromise.


-Fletchette
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 8:49:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/26/2007 8:54:28 PM EST by sherrick13]
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 8:52:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
FUCK HIM.

This "eat your own" stuff is pissing me off, because thats EXACTLY what THEy wanted to do to US.

Its ok for them to "eat their own" and sell us down the river, but as soon as we stand up OHHH WAIT its bad cause we're "eating our own".

They can kiss my white ass. Both cheeks in fact.


Agreed.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 8:53:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By long-rifle-tactical:
Quote from the article:

In a few short days the career of the best known hunting writer in America was served in small bloody pieces to a crowd of vicious, vengeful, vitriolic jackals. This is worth analysis.

Edited to add Pats website

http://www.patwray.com/


See? There you go.

Another asshat who has no business representing ANY gun owners.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 8:57:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcgredo:
Wray was, a few months ago, pimping for the AHSA, an anti-gun front organization that wants to ban BMGs, "cop killer bullets", and assault weapons.


Thanks, that's all I need to know about him.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 9:01:37 PM EST
Christ, to know the damage Zumbo did all he has to do is read the comments to the blog, as soon as it started 90% of the antis stopped using the "assault rifle" moniker and switched to calling them terrorist weapons.

Link Posted: 2/26/2007 9:02:23 PM EST
Fuck Wray.
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