User Panel
Posted: 2/26/2007 4:54:45 AM EDT
I received this today.....
for what it is worth. He made his point, but I still get a sense of "we are better than you" feeling. That annoys me. Thanks for taking the time to write. You were one of many gun owners to write to me regarding my recent statements in the Washington Post. I understand your concern. I was not complimentary about the actions of people involved in the Internet destruction of Jim Zumbo's career. My feelings about those actions will not change. Those of you who took part in the assault on Zumbo lost an opportunity to turn him around, to educate him and to change him into an outstanding spokesman for your beliefs. He offered, in his initial apology, to do exactly that. Instead, you went for the jugular and completed his fall. Your action was fast, furious and, like so many other internet-based actions, without the benefit of deliberation or serious discussion. It was, very simply, a high tech lynching conducted by an enraged mob. If being described as part of a lynch mob bothers you, perhaps you should consider the description next time you are tempted to go on the attack. Speaking of attack, a number of you told me in no uncertain terms to expect treatment 'like Zumbo got.' My response is this; I'm going to do what I think is right. You should do the same. Let the chips fall where they may. If we're going to have a serious disagreement, you should know who I am. I have been a member of the NRA for nearly 25 years, and believe strongly in their 2nd Amendment mission. I need them to help me protect the semi-automatic firearms in my safe. Several of them are 'assault rifles' beginning with my 1873 Springfield .45-70 and going forward to World War II weapons. I also own several other semi-automatic firearms and will fight any attempt to outlaw them. I don't own an AR 15, not because I don't believe in our right to own them, but because I'm not impressed with the caliber. I use a .22-250 for varmints. I spent 20 years in the United States Marine Corps and doubt that any one of you is more dedicated to our country or the Constitution than I am. I oppose gun registration because I don't want the government to be able to take my firearms. I recognize the need for an armed citizenry and intend to be a part of it. In short, I don't have a problem with your firearms or your right to own them. I own them myself. I will not be a part of a divide-and-conquer strategy aimed at gun owners. I do have a major problem with the mob psychology some of you exhibited over the past week. It was despicable. Period. If you want a more complete view of my feelings on the Zumbo situation I invite you to visit the following website. gtconnect.com/articles/2007/02/25/sports/venture/1ven01_wray.txt It is a column that came out today in the Corvallis Gazette-Times. Sincerely, Pat Wray |
|
So some how it's our fault.........
No body wants to take responsibility for their own actions any more. |
|
I learned a long time ago when you step on your own balls its nobodies fault but your own. Don't blame those that pointed out the facts. If it was just a bunch of cry babies jumping up and down about some minor thing NON of his Sponsors would have dropped him like that did. So I am guessing they felt the same way we all did. Pat might want to be careful who he is pointing fingers at!
|
|
I do not believe for one second someone who starts from a point where AR15 owners are terrorists CAN be given an "opportunity to turn him around, to educate him and to change him into an outstanding spokesman for your beliefs".
Same goes for those who make the case and attempt to defend such foolishness. |
|
The point was made, whether he likes how it went or not. The positive that comes out of this is: hopefully this will send a message to ANYONE who tries to deny us our Constitutionally guaranteed rights. We need to stop the witch hunt and focus our efforts in the political arena now.
|
|
FUCK HIM.
This "eat your own" stuff is pissing me off, because thats EXACTLY what THEy wanted to do to US. Its ok for them to "eat their own" and sell us down the river, but as soon as we stand up OHHH WAIT its bad cause we're "eating our own". They can kiss my white ass. Both cheeks in fact. |
|
Perfect analysis. |
|
|
Pretty much what Zumbo did to us. |
|
|
Quote from the article:
In a few short days the career of the best known hunting writer in America was served in small bloody pieces to a crowd of vicious, vengeful, vitriolic jackals. This is worth analysis. Edited to add Pats website http://www.patwray.com/ |
|
Ok after reading that.......
I wasn't going to go after this guy, but after reading this condescending letter, blaming us...... I am going after him. Sorry, thats just fucked up. Blame us? Sorry, thats uncalled for. I am going after this guy. |
|
Wray was, a few months ago, pimping for the AHSA, an anti-gun front organization that wants to ban BMGs, "cop killer bullets", and assault weapons.
He's a lefty hunter who has a feud with the NRA because he thinks they aren't supportive enough of wilderness areas. He's so tied up in the feud that he's willing to support gun grabbers like the AHSA. |
|
Media types have huge egos. They hate it when we little people question them.
|
|
Heres what I wrote to him:
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:08:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Matthew Hiller" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert Subject: Thanks for Calling US a Mob. To: [email protected] Pat, I was not really mad at your comments that I saw in the Washington Post until your letter to another of our members was posted. You blame us for Zumbos demise. Zumbos words are being used by the Brady Campaign, as I am sure now your words will be as well. This is not about dividing shooters, we are making a real effort to unite shooters, but calling us jackals and an angry mob because we defend our right to choose what weapons to own? Come on now, this is not about hunters versus shooters. This is about the 2nd Amendment. We got rid of Zumbo, we did it because he is dangerous to the 2nd A. His statements are being used by every gun grabber in the country. Hate to go after every single person, but we will go after anyone who has a platform and attempts to infringe on our Constitutional Rights. A mob? No. A voice, a voice of gun owners who realize it is not just about hunting deer. I don't even hunt. I own several firearms, train regularly, and am proficient with more types of guns than you can probably name. And I care about the 2nd! Being a "mob" may be all we can do, but if it keeps those who threaten our rights from having a public voice then so be it. Unfortunately after reading your letter it looks as though a "Firemission" may be started on Pat Wray. Some of you guys just don't get it. We may act like a "mob" but after we do.... you will no longer have a platform from which to attack our rights or give material to those who would take away our rights. Respectfully, Matt Hiller |
|
Fuck him. I agree no one defending zumbo wants to acknoledge what he said, but just blame the "mob" for what happened. He still hasnt apologized for calling people who dont use AR15's for hunting terrorists- he said he was sorry that he didnt know SOME people use them for LEGITIMATE HUNTING purposes. So if you dont use them for LHP you are still a terrorist.
Zumbo got what he deserved, and its all the panty wastes that defend him who are the same ones who dont like people owning modern military rifles. |
|
That group of brave men on the green in Concord was also considered an "angry mob" by the imperial boot lickers.
|
|
mcgredo dug up a bunch of dirt on this guy in another thread. Here are some links for this Zumbo, only this guy is worse as he is a shill for gun grabbers.
http://www.americanhuntersandshooters.org/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=33 http://gazettetimes.com/articles/2006/07/03/sports/venture/vent1.prt http://www.gunweek.com/2006/AHSA0710.html http://gtconnect.com/articles/2007/02/25/sports/venture/1ven01_wray.txt Read up, know the enemy within. |
|
+1,000,000,000 Why can't these asshats see your point? They can spit in our face and we just have to stand there and smile? I think many of the hunters don't understand the bullshit we AR guys had to up with for the 10-year period that the AWB was in effect. So we have already been the victims of being eaten by our own guys. Fuck us once, shame on you. Fuck us twice, shame on us. I don't want to win over Zumbo. He attacked us with his ignorant posts. Don't coddle your enemies. Destroy them. ARFCOM 1 Zumbo 0 |
|
|
PS,
That canned letter you got is the same one everyone else got. He doesn't have the balls to talk to gun owners, but he'll damn sure spout of to the papers. |
|
You mean Lexington, And no, it wasn't an angry mob. It was an outnumbered militia unit in the process of being disprersed by the CO, Capt. John Parker, who wanted no fight with his own army, the British Army, at least while they outnumbered his men ten to one. The "angry mob" was actually the ranks of the British Army there, out of control, and firing/bayonetting, after a shot rang out. Nobody knows who fired that first shot. The colonists at Lexington Green died like dogs- they had already unloaded their muskets and were about to go home, when the British turned up after all. It was not a heroic sight, it was more like Tien-an-me'en Square in Beijing in 1989, an abject slaughter. Concord North Bridge was a different story, but the Common or green in Concord was unoccupied by colonial soldiers that day. |
|
|
I post the following in response to Mr. Wray's column in the Gazette Times:
|
|
|
AHSA- BAD people. One of their founders, John Rosenthal
was one of the architects of Massachusetts's draconian gun laws. www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/01/07/make_federal_laws_to_reduce_gun_access/ www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/03/31/somebodys_watching/ newsbusters.org/node/7390 One very BAD man. |
|
How dare this guy bring up the "devide and conquer" bullshit. Isn't that what Zumbo got trashed for?!
|
|
Call me a terrorist and some how thats supporting the 2nd amendment? Hmmmmm...
|
|
Pat Wray is in bed with the anti's and liberals. He is a traitor like Zumbo. Here is Wray, a "who the hell is this" bird hunter/writer who scrambles to run his mouth to the Washignton Post and codemn the gun community for policing our own. Hopefully, just like Zumbo's fate, this idiot will go down in infamy as well. Pat, you put yourself on the radar, you condemned us, insulted us, and committed treason against the RKBA.
Go to the birds Wray! |
|
I'll have to agree with you guys...Zumbo's lost complete credibility with me. I also take issue that we ARE the problem because we don't stand by Zumbo like Ted Nugent wants us to believe him to be the new "upgraded" golden boy out to save us as some new resurrected messaiah who has been shown the truth. Ted and Pat can have Zumbo if they want. SWAT magazine can forget about my subscription after offering Zumbo to write an article for their magazine. I stll remember Hanoi Jane and won't support her...Zumbo is no different in my book...he gave aid and comfort to the enemy. You can't take that back.
|
|
Exactly...them and Hollywood types, too... BTW who the heck is this person???Pat Wray? fred |
|
|
Probably emailing Wray is a waste of time... or worse. Might be like spam, where if you answer they just know the message is getting out.
Let's start by reviewing his book, which we have all read often enough: Chukar Hunter's Companion Then, let's answer this guy in the general media, where he works. And, let's continue to get the word around to everybody in our camp, to be on the lookout for him. The gun-owning, Constitution respecting, non-fake hunting community must let the world know that he is not one of us, and does not speak for us. |
|
You can bet that Brady, etc will happily quote Zumbo when they push for the next AWB. "Look", they'll crow, "even respected veteran hunters like Zumbo think black rifles should be banned".
That will be Zumbo's legacy. ckmorley |
|
Who is Pat Wray? He's a legend in his own mind. |
||
|
|
|||
|
I got the same form letter reply from Mr. Wray. I really love this line of his response "I spent 20 years in the United States Marine Corps and doubt that any one of you is more dedicated to our country or the Constitution than I am. I oppose gun registration because I don't want the government to be able to take my firearms." He must be one of those Marines like Jack Murtha, the kind that will sell his fellow Marines down the line just to protect his ass.
The other part I love is this line " I have been a member of the NRA for nearly 25 years, and believe strongly in their 2nd Amendment mission." Then why did he make it seem like all the members of the NRA are mindless drones that can do nothing on their own without the NRA directing them to??? Only his super intelligent ass has the correct type of tinfoil to block the NRA mindcontrol devices??? The rest of us who are members of the NRA just don't get it I guess. Basically the message I am getting from the Zumbo, Petzal and Wray is this "Comprimise is the the answer to all our fears. Give up the bad, scary guns and the honest, well meaning socialists, I er mean democrats, will let us keep our good guns. Really, they promised to not touch our Perazzi and Beretta over and unders. You can trust me, I am a gun guy, see the the bullets come out on this end, I think." After these 3 dipshits, I am waiting to see who is going to be the next "gun guy" to open his mouth saying we went to far getting Zumbo fired. In a weird kind of way I am glad Zumbo opened his mouth like he did. We finally are getting to see who is on our side and who is not. I hope more of the so called "defenders" of the 2nd Amendement come out and spout off more stupid shit. Maybe this can be a housecleaning of sorts. Hopefully the NRA, GOA, JPFO and other groups that support the 2nd will be able to see if they have been duped by their spokespersons and board members. This could really turn out to be a positive if we keep the momentum up and going. I also hope that the US Congress and the state legislatures are taking notice of what is happening. No matter how much these anti gun politicians hate us and our guns, they like thier jobs more, and if we keep them nervous enough, then we are doing the right thing. |
|
These "spokesmen" who advocate compromise are either extremely naïve or complete turncoats. Afterall, Zumbo started this whole incident by essentially calling gun owners who shoot AR-15s "terrorists". That, is sacrificing fellow gun owners; now he complains of "eating one of our own".
Here is an exact quote of mine posted in a parallel post on compromise. If any of the Zumbo defenders are reading this, consider me a jackel:
|
||
|
The thread on compromise had nothing to do with Zumbo nor did it say we should compromise our gun rights. I was pointing out the fact that compromise is the way politics works. It is as sure as the sun coming up tomorrow. No bill is passed as it was originally written. And it is stupid to only accept candidates that are 100% in line with you or accept bills that are only 100% what you want right now. Democraps understand incrementalism. Many of you don't. The fact is, now the democraps are in power we lost our choice to compromise at all as 2nd Amendment absolutists. It may be shoved down our throats. We should have made the democraps compromise sometime between 2000 and 06. But lets talk about your post. No compromise on the BOR's? That is a joke. We all have already compromised on the BOR's. Does the Federal .gov affect your life in ways that violate the 9th and 10th? That is a big yes. And you have accepted it. Sure the BOR's means what is says. But that doesn't mean shit when nothing is done to the people or parts of .gov that violate those rights. We need to make the other side start compromising, but we have got to be in power to do so. |
|||
|
Agreed. |
|
|
See? There you go. Another asshat who has no business representing ANY gun owners. |
|
|
Thanks, that's all I need to know about him. |
|
|
Christ, to know the damage Zumbo did all he has to do is read the comments to the blog, as soon as it started 90% of the antis stopped using the "assault rifle" moniker and switched to calling them terrorist weapons.
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.