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Posted: 8/29/2004 11:21:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 4:05:10 PM EST by lvgunner777]
My brother in law is a super nice guy and we get along great, everyone in the family likes him a lot. Well, he has an admitted gambling problem that he supposedly has under control for the last few years. His credit was ruined from his problem. So my sister keeps stict control of the money, they have one bank card and it stays in my sister's possesion, this is his choice, not hers. Enough of the background, now to the problem.

My sister is in school and only about a semester away from getting her teaching license. Well, she had $2000 in their desk drawer to pay for books and tuition for this up coming fall season. It was supposed to be deposited on friday by my brother in law. My sister realized today that the money was not in the bank so she asked him about it. He said he forgot to deposit the money but it should be in the drawer. Well, it wasn't in the drawer and it wasn't anywhere to be found. This was one of the few times she has trusted him with cash.

I found all this out because he called me today and asked if he could borrow the money from me. He says someone broke in the house and stole the money. He told me the story and I asked him why they didn't take the lap top computer, any jewelry, or any electronics?? He said he has no idea why. I asked if there was any form of forced entry, he said, no. I asked him if he filed a police report, he said no.

I told him the story didn't pass my sniff test right off the bat and I would have to think about loaning the money or not. I called my sister and she is denial, she thinks someone must have gotten in somehow and taken the money. She doesn't think he could do something like that because according to her, "he has been doing so good". She told me he went out with an old friend the other night and won $1500 and brought it home so he must have his gambling under control. I told her that propably just sparked his bug and he went out and lost her school money. She is crying and a mess right now, she doesn't know what to do.

My question is what should I do? Should I loan MY SISTER the money so she can go to school or should I just stay out of it?? Remember, he involved me by asking me for the money and telling the story. What should I do???
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:25:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:25:28 AM EST
If you let them have the money you should consider it a gift, because it's doubtful you will ever get paid back. If you can't afford to lose it, don't do it.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:25:38 AM EST
Go school supply shopping with your sister. Tell the BIL you will break his thumbs if he pulls another stunt like that, and he better repay his wife every red cent...
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:29:14 AM EST
hes out of control. break his legs.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:43:10 AM EST
Sounds like he needs his fix,
He is going to have to hit rock bottom and untill then dont ever give him cash.

If He needs something, and you are feeling chairitable, go and get it for him.

Your Sister should throw his sorry ass out the door and then she wouldn't have to worry about what happened to the money. She would be much better off
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:56:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By lvgunner777:
She told me he went out with an old friend the other night and won $1500 and brought it home so he must have his gambling under control.



You don't "win" or "lose" anything when your gambling is "under control"

He is lying & she is not facing facts.

She needs to tell him to quit, permanently or leave. If she does not, he will wreck her life as he goes under again.


(sorry if I am being blunt, I took the first pill for my bad back that my doc prescribed and my "subtle language" posting ability has been turned off - I wish for the best for your sister & her husband, but spending college money on gambling is an enormous red flag)



Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:06:53 PM EST
I agree with what others have said here as far as going with your sis to help her with her school costs.

As far as your BIL goes? He needs to get into a recovery group for addictive gamblers (If he's not already). I lost one of the best jobs I ever had when my then boss relapsed (He'd had a gambling addicion earlier in his life but hadn't gambled for years) and SH*T his whole business away in just under a year at the BlackJack table. Ugliest freakin' thing I ever had the misfortune to witness. This dude could lose $15,000 in a single night.

Once, he sat down with $1,000 and after about an hour I went to check on him (The employees tried to keep an eye on him 'cause it was our jobs he was pissing away at the time) and he was up $4,000 to $5,000. I suggested he walk away and call it good and go back to his room (We were at a hotel with a casino for a trade show) for the night. He blew me off so I went and had a beer and then stopped by his table one last time to see if I could convince him before I headed off. Maybe 30 min's had passed since I'd been there before (When he had $5,000 in front of him) and when I walked up to him he bummed $100 off me to continue playing

Took him a year but he ended-up losing everything and owing everyone. If your sister is married to a guy with that "Bug" and she wants her life with him to be anything other than a nightmare she needs to see to it that he gets help. Otherwise, he'll spend all of his $$$ AND hers on his way down. If he's already concocting BS "Robberies" to cover his habit he's due IMHO.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:07:04 PM EST
The only monster here is the gambling monster that has enslaved your brother-in-law! I call him Gamblor, and it's time to snatch your in-law from his neon claws!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:07:11 PM EST
sounds like a 'friend' that had an alcohol problem, his wife said he has been so good and making progress and all dried up. until she was playing ball with the dog one day and had to chase the ball down the hill into the woods. about 70 empty gin bottles strewn all over. he never stopped for a goddamn minute. your bro-in-law is a fucking liar and deserves an assbeating.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:08:51 PM EST
If it wont put your family in a bind, help her out by going to the school and paying in person. Then let the POS BIL know he is on his way to a world of hurt.

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 1:31:23 PM EST
UPDATE:


He called me and told me the cops said they wouldn't do anything about it anyway. BUT, the good news he says is the money was in the drawer after all, it was just underneath something. My sister looked in the drawer too and it wasn't there either. I don't know about you but if the 2K was missing I would have torn that drawer apart right off the bat, not called everyone I know and tried to borrow the money first.

Keep in mind he went to his mother's house today while my sister was at work and then the money magically reappeared. I think he went to his mother's and borrowed the money and is now trying to cover his ass.


Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:44:20 PM EST

He called me and told me the cops said they wouldn't do anything about it anyway. BUT, the good news he says is the money was in the drawer after all, it was just underneath something. My sister looked in the drawer too and it wasn't there either. I don't know about you but if the 2K was missing I would have torn that drawer apart right off the bat, not called everyone I know and tried to borrow the money first.

Keep in mind he went to his mother's house today while my sister was at work and then the money magically reappeared. I think he went to his mother's and borrowed the money and is now trying to cover his ass.



Yea he is lying he got the money from somewhere else to cover and your sister is deluding herself.

Anybody who gives them money right now is just enabling his behavior… DO NOT GIVE HIM OR HER MONEY. Call your mother and try to get her to stop enabling his bad behavior. If they need something buy it yourself and take it to them. DO NOT GIVE HIM OR HER MONEY you might as well just burn it instead, giving him money to gamble with is doing harm NOT GOOD.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:04:46 PM EST
You are really not going to fucking believe this, the whole thing about him finding the money was another lie.

My sister made him tell me that because she didn't want me pissed off at the idiot. What really happened is $2000 was missing from the bank account. So the money in the desk drawer was supposed to cover the missing money in the bank account, but that was gone too. Then my sister went to a secret spot where she keeps $1500 for an emergency and that was fucking gone too.


NOW WE ARE UP TO $5500 THIS MOTHERFUCKER HAS PISSED AWAY. He still won't admit it was him and my sister is a fucking wreck. I don't know what to do at this point, I really don't.

If anyone has any real advice other than kicking his ass or something like that please share it.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:11:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:20:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By lvgunner777:
You are really not going to fucking believe this, the whole thing about him finding the money was another lie.

My sister made him tell me that because she didn't want me pissed off at the idiot. What really happened is $2000 was missing from the bank account. So the money in the desk drawer was supposed to cover the missing money in the bank account, but that was gone too. Then my sister went to a secret spot where she keeps $1500 for an emergency and that was fucking gone too.


NOW WE ARE UP TO $5500 THIS MOTHERFUCKER HAS PISSED AWAY. He still won't admit it was him and my sister is a fucking wreck. I don't know what to do at this point, I really don't.

If anyone has any real advice other than kicking his ass or something like that please share it.




That sucks - sorry to hear it.

He has a serious problem , and so does she. Once his addiction (or whatever you want to call it, since it's not technically a drug) starts to have negative consequences on his family and loved ones, it means that he's out of control. If she supports him (and lying to cover his ass counts as supporting him), then to a certain extent, she is PART of the problem. Ultimately, why is your sister in a realtionship with somoene she cannot trust?

If you give them money (you'll most likely not get a "loan" back) you are essentially subsidizing his gambling, and enabling his behavior.

The ONLY thing that helps is CONSEQUENCES - and it sounds like he needs some serious consequences. Whether that's a separation from your sister, or what that might be, who knows, but without consequences, the addict learns that this is an acceptable behavior, and will do it again.

It seems to me like HE needs some kind of treatment (and if he lives in Nevada, I'd think it would be pretty easy to find) and that they need some marriage counselling.



I know how this kind of stuff can suck. My fiancee's brother had a SERIOUS coke problem a few years back, involving embezzlement from his employer, practically bankrupting their mom, having to declare bankruptcy himself, needing serious (residential) treatment, etc. It was very stressful an unpleasant for the family, so I sympathise enormously wiht what you have to go through.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:22:45 PM EST
Start finding dates for your sister.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:53:13 PM EST
If you can't talk your sister into leaving him, She is SOL. If you are posting about the problem here, you have probably already decided not to do anything to the BIL. There is literally nothing you can do. Wash your hands of it. Your sister is in for a lot of pain, and she is the only one who can help herself. Hope they don't have any kids yet.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:58:20 PM EST
WOW. Reminds me of an indoor paintball field when I was a teenager. After the owner hired his brother to run the counter, the place was stuck up twice. Security cameras were installed, and they kept a shotgun under the counter.

Turns out the brother was a speed freak and had stolen the money, then claimed the range was held up.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:01:01 PM EST
I was watching the casino reality show on Fox (or is it UPN?) earlier this week when the admitted gambling addict went to the pawn shop to hock his NICE Browning Highpower. When the Ppawnshop person asked him how much he wanted the addict replied "I've gotten three hundred for it before." This showed me that he was a true addict.

The story gets better though, he went back to the shop to hock his weddding ring and while I don't know how much they gave him after he claimed it was worth thousands and they replied that he'd defaulted on jewelry before. He got it back from hock after his wife caught him and he only paid them $72 total.

He has a problem, there are groups that can try to help him if he wants it.

Your sister has a problem in that she has by all appearances a thief under her roof.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:01:41 PM EST
Sorry to hear about your dilemna, but I need to be honest....
Blood is thicker than water....take care of your family...if you are able to pay for the school stuff, do so...as for the gambling problem, I hear a divorce can help with that.

Even if you really like this guy, he is stealing from your family!
Do whats in your heart, but take care of your own blood first.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:03:15 PM EST
Your sister needs to get an Lawyer and file for divorce...right effin' now.

This guy is going to drag down anyone and everyone around him. She needs to put all the distance possible between her(& her assets!) and him...NOW.

She needs to get bank accounts with only her name on them and move all of her assets that she possibly can out of his reach. Put a restraining order on him, to boot. Change all the locks on the house, too.

Tough times & tough situations nearly always require tough decisions. This guy has more than proven he has a SERIOUS problem and cannot be trusted. Get out while it's still relatively cheap.

The path of action is crystal clear, IMHO.

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:04:36 PM EST
Giving them money is like just giving it to the Casino. Even if you pay the bills for her he will take it out of somewhere else. Ditch this loser. And fast, is my advice to her. He is going to drag her into an economic nightmare. She needs to lawyer up fast and protect herself from what he is going to do.

Don't give 'em a dime. Seriously. I know it is going to be tough on your sister but it is the only way. Be tough. You must.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:07:54 PM EST
Give your Sis the money. Insist that she take it straight to school and pay her bill. Then go kick the BIL's ass while she is at the school.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:10:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By lvgunner777:
You are really not going to fucking believe this, the whole thing about him finding the money was another lie.

My sister made him tell me that because she didn't want me pissed off at the idiot. What really happened is $2000 was missing from the bank account. So the money in the desk drawer was supposed to cover the missing money in the bank account, but that was gone too. Then my sister went to a secret spot where she keeps $1500 for an emergency and that was fucking gone too.


NOW WE ARE UP TO $5500 THIS MOTHERFUCKER HAS PISSED AWAY. He still won't admit it was him and my sister is a fucking wreck. I don't know what to do at this point, I really don't.

If anyone has any real advice other than kicking his ass or something like that please share it.




That sucks - sorry to hear it.

He has a serious problem , and so does she. Once his addiction (or whatever you want to call it, since it's not technically a drug) starts to have negative consequences on his family and loved ones, it means that he's out of control. If she supports him (and lying to cover his ass counts as supporting him), then to a certain extent, she is PART of the problem. Ultimately, why is your sister in a realtionship with somoene she cannot trust?

If you give them money (you'll most likely not get a "loan" back) you are essentially subsidizing his gambling, and enabling his behavior.

The ONLY thing that helps is CONSEQUENCES - and it sounds like he needs some serious consequences.
Whether that's a separation from your sister, or what that might be, who knows, but without consequences, the addict learns that this is an acceptable behavior, and will do it again.

It seems to me like HE needs some kind of treatment (and if he lives in Nevada, I'd think it would be pretty easy to find) and that they need some marriage counselling.



I know how this kind of stuff can suck. My fiancee's brother had a SERIOUS coke problem a few years back, involving embezzlement from his employer, practically bankrupting their mom, having to declare bankruptcy himself, needing serious (residential) treatment, etc. It was very stressful an unpleasant for the family, so I sympathise enormously wiht what you have to go through.




+1
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:11:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 5:14:55 PM EST by kpel308]
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:27:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By kpel308:
Call 1-800-BETS-OFF, as soon as possible. They can help, even if you are not the one with the problem. You can look at their website at www.1800betsoff.org

Speaking as someone who has had to arrest people that have had themselves read trespass AT THEIR OWN REQUEST, the quicker you get this guy some help and away from your sister, the better.

I've seen people lose their homes, go to prison, and kill themselves over gambling. Don't take it personally, and get this guy some help. He's not going to be able to do it by himself.





That is an excellent link thank you for that. That website pretty much describes my BIL to a T. I gave the website to my sister last night after counseling her for a couple of hours. He still hasn't admtted to taking the money.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:36:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By raven:
The only monster here is the gambling monster that has enslaved your brother-in-law! I call him Gamblor, and it's time to snatch your in-law from his neon claws!




LMAO, great episode.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:39:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 6:50:57 AM EST by fight4yourrights]
DENIAL. Classic denial.


WTF was she doing keeping that much cash in a drawer anyway?



Tell her to leave him.

IF he gets professional help, she can think about taking him back.


My sister inlaw's 8 year marriage just went down the tubes cuz hubby was a gambler. Bankruptcy, hundreds of thousands of dollars, 2 kids, it's a mess.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:43:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By lvgunner777:

Originally Posted By kpel308:
Call 1-800-BETS-OFF, as soon as possible. They can help, even if you are not the one with the problem. You can look at their website at www.1800betsoff.org

Speaking as someone who has had to arrest people that have had themselves read trespass AT THEIR OWN REQUEST, the quicker you get this guy some help and away from your sister, the better.

I've seen people lose their homes, go to prison, and kill themselves over gambling. Don't take it personally, and get this guy some help. He's not going to be able to do it by himself.





That is an excellent link thank you for that. That website pretty much describes my BIL to a T. I gave the website to my sister last night after counseling her for a couple of hours. He still hasn't admtted to taking the money.



This guy is lying to your sister.

He can NEVER be trusted again. It's done.

She needs to get her things in order and leave.

If she hasn't done so already, getting a credit check done NOW is in order. If she is only out the $5500, then she should consider herself lucky, cut all ties and move on. There may be more lurking beneath the surface - especially if he had to STEAL the emergency $1500.

He may be a nice guy, but he is not clean, and he is lying to cover it up. It will cause more pain down the road. Remember, he is a THIEF and has STOLEN from your sister, then LIED to her face about it.

He will promise to give it up when she tells him she is leaving, and he will probably go right back to it if she stays with him.

One DOES NOT appreciate anything until it is gone, and it sure sounds like he does not appreciate your sister.

Sorry if all this seems harsh, but anything less is enabling him. If it helps him in the long run, that's fine, it's his life and if he wants to wreck it, that's his choice. Same deal with your sister (you can't make decisions for her). It will affect your family, however, so that does make it your business too. Good luck.



Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:47:51 AM EST
Loan your sister the money. Her education is the only way she'll ever get any security. If you never get it back consider it money well spent.

I'd say that her husband is up to his old tricks. He probably can't help it. He needs counseling. A lot of it.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:55:16 AM EST
For what its worth, giving your sister the money will only prolong her enabling behavior. She doesn't want to believe the guy is lying to her. She may need a delay in her education to get an education. She may be angry at you now and thank you later, maybe. Neither one of them are facing reality.

Good luck,
Mike
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:05:29 AM EST
Your sister needs to learn to grow up and face facts. That won't happen with you bailing her and her husband out this time. She needs to face to cold harsh realities of her choices. That may mean missing a semester of school. Tell her that you are not in a situation to help right now.

Most people start to really resent those who help them out. I've seen it with two of my brothers. My parents are always bailing them out of their mistakes. And they have a deep sense of contempt for them.

The last time I went way out of my way to help out my brother, he ended up lashing out at me. I've learned to let him do his own thing unless his kids are in trouble or danger.

I imagine you now have huge weight on your shoulders as you decide what to do. Good luck and I hope it gets better.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:10:36 AM EST
the next thing to happen is his identity will be "stolen" and there will be thousands, if not tens of thousands in loans/CC's that have some how been opend in his name.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:18:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cleatus:
the next thing to happen is his identity will be "stolen" and there will be thousands, if not tens of thousands in loans/CC's that have some how been opend in his name.



+1

she needs to get her latest credit report (do they have joint or separate accounts?) and if she won't do it then you might want to consider getting someone you know to run one on her. Gambling is bad bad news, I knew some folks who lost their jobs and they were eating mac & cheese, getting overdue on bills, running their car without inspection but somehow they always found the money to play a $20 a day numbers habit plus $$$ for all the football & baseball pools. Had to be $8-10K a year easy, and they were both on unemployment. Their house was a wreck.

People who are into gambling drag everyone down with them. I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life with one (especially one who I couldn't trust not to steal from me)

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:34:02 AM EST
The Neutral Observer understands the dilemma.

On one hand, she is your sister and she needs help with school. Not helping her might cause her serious problems down the road. It's for a good cause, as it will help her secure her future.

On the other hand, she's staying with a guy who is a liar and a thief. Gambling addiction is a bullshit excuse; the guy is still a liar and a thief and made his choices. He is not a nice guy, regardless of the "but..." disclaimer you made at the beginning. She really needs to get herself into a better situation, and the denial isn't helping. By paying for her school, you'll subsidize her denial.

Regardless of your decision about helping your sister, the BIL needs counseling. The "tough love" kind of counseling. The bastard needs to learn the hard way, because he obviously isn't going to learn by talking about his feelings and the feel-good crap if he isn't motivated to change. It's up to you to supply his motivation and help out your sister. The Neutral Observer suggests a method that creates plausible deniability for yourself to avoid angering your sister. Hey, certain things happen to people who can't pay their gambling debts, you know?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:46:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 7:50:07 AM EST by GodBlessTexas]
Your sister by lying and covering for him is now his enabler. Do not give her cash. If you want to help her, taker her shopping to buy the things she needs and keep the receipts. Also have a chat with her about lying for that sack of shit and that you will not help her any more if she chooses to enable him. You're not mad, but you won't be put in this position any more because there's no point in it.

Your BIL needs a severe ass whipping and an intervention, otherwise he's going to go downhill and take your sister with him. The bad part about letting a gambler reach rock bottom is that they take their loved ones too. Your sister needs to either butch up and tell him to get his shit straight and mean it, or it won't matter. Furthermore, coming from a 12 step background, there is nothing you can do for any addict that will help them if they don't first realize they have a problem and that they want to get better. My brother died from drugs and alcohol after at least a dozen attempts at sobriety via rehab programs. He never acknowledged there was a problem until right before he died of liver failure, because at that point there was no denying it. Your BIL needs to acknowledge that there's a problem. He needs to own up to it and he has to want to chagne. Otherwise it'll be the same story throughout the rest of his life.

And as stated, recovering gamblers don't go to casinos, just like recovering alcoholics don't go to bars and recovering drug addicts don't hang out with drug dealers.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:51:48 AM EST
Kick his ass, Seabass!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:41:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 8:43:22 AM EST by rebel_rifle]

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:
The Neutral Observer understands the dilemma.

On one hand, she is your sister and she needs help with school. Not helping her might cause her serious problems down the road. It's for a good cause, as it will help her secure her future.

On the other hand, she's staying with a guy who is a liar and a thief. Gambling addiction is a bullshit excuse; the guy is still a liar and a thief and made his choices. He is not a nice guy, regardless of the "but..." disclaimer you made at the beginning. She really needs to get herself into a better situation, and the denial isn't helping. By paying for her school, you'll subsidize her denial.

Regardless of your decision about helping your sister, the BIL needs counseling. The "tough love" kind of counseling. The bastard needs to learn the hard way, because he obviously isn't going to learn by talking about his feelings and the feel-good crap if he isn't motivated to change. It's up to you to supply his motivation and help out your sister. The Neutral Observer suggests a method that creates plausible deniability for yourself to avoid angering your sister. Hey, certain things happen to people who can't pay their gambling debts, you know?




+1

You need to open up a serious case of whoop ass on this BIL. Give him an "over and under" on just how bad you are going to kick his ass.

After that, remember the 3 S's.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 1:55:27 PM EST


Well one another note... Is your sister hot? Got any pics?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:02:53 PM EST
Do you have a small boat? You should do like Al Pacino did to his brother Fredo in the godfather. I know he's you brother in law, and not your brother, but thats close enough.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:22:49 PM EST
is your sister hot? can she cook? if so, perhaps i can take him for a tour of Nevada's scenic abandoned mines and remote, desolate places.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:34:02 PM EST
Only 5,500 I lost more than that befor. But i also had to admit I had a gambeling probem which sucked. I dont do it anymore. you know what that means, more money for guns. YEAH!!!!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:51:44 PM EST
I'm sorry to hear this and feel for your sister. Unless she takes some drastic action she will find herself buried in debt and her dreams of teaching will be a distant memory. Hope it works out for her.
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