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Posted: 9/30/2005 8:07:45 AM EDT
Father Says Son Didn't Need To Die

POSTED: 10:29 am CDT September 30, 2005
UPDATED: 10:32 am CDT September 30, 2005

NORMAN, Okla. -- The father of a 17-year-old boy who was shot and killed by a Norman police officer said there should have been a way to arrest him without using deadly force.

"I don't have a vendetta against Norman police," Leonard Sanchez said. "I know they are just doing their job, but I have a problem with the way the officer used excessive force.

"I want that officer fired. I don't think we need an officer on the force who jumps out of his car and starts firing. I don't think he is good for Norman. They have Tasers. They have Mace. There are other ways to take him out other than shooting him."

His son, Richard Lee Sanchez, was shot and killed in south Oklahoma City Monday morning by Norman police officer Chad Vincent.

The teenager quit the "Bloods" gang in Tucson, Ariz., and moved to Oklahoma to live with his father in rural southeast Norman this year. He was on probation for an Arizona larceny case, and he was trying to straighten out his life here, his father said.

Richard Lee Sanchez was taken to a juvenile center in August after violating parole by staying out all night and then trying to elude police.

Late Sunday, he and three other juveniles escaped from the Alan J. Couch Detention Center about 11:30 p.m.

Leonard Sanchez said his son had been told he was going to be tried as an adult and would do prison time.

"They made it a point to him that it was going to be a long time before he got to go home. He got scared -- what can I say?" Leonard Sanchez said. "He wasn't a violent person, but he thought he was going to prison, so he escaped."

Three of the escapees were captured by Cleveland County sheriff's deputies about 2:30 a.m. Monday. Richard Sanchez got away.

About 4:15 a.m., a boy with a knife who matched Richard Sanchez's description robbed a convenience store and stole a pickup in Norman.

Police spotted the pickup, and a chase north on Interstate 35 ended in Oklahoma City about 10 minutes later.

Police said Richard Sanchez got out of the pickup and confronted Vincent before he was shot. Investigators have not revealed details about that confrontation, including whether Sanchez was armed.

Leonard Sanchez said when a Norman detective told him Wednesday his son was hit 11 times by bullets, he decided not to view the body at the funeral home. Instead, he called an attorney.

Lt. J.D. Younger, Norman police spokesman, said he could not comment on the number of times Sanchez was shot.

He said interviews with those involved with the shooting have been completed and a final report will be forwarded to the Cleveland County district attorney's office. Vincent remains on paid administrative leave, Younger said.
Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.



lets see...
gang member, escape from jail, rob a convience store,steal a truck,confront an officer with a knife.


Yep, innocent lamb here.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:45:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 8:45:30 AM EDT by OKLAHOMA_LAWMAN]
"I don't have a vendetta against Norman police," Leonard Sanchez said. "I know they are just doing their job, but I have a problem with the way the officer used excessive force.

Don't bring a knife to gun fight!



Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:52:01 AM EDT
Generally when you are trying to straighten out your life you dont do it by robbing folks at knife point. Maybe I'm wrong on this though.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:54:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 9:40:02 AM EDT by uncle_frank]
But deep down, he was a good boy.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 8:58:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 8:59:17 AM EDT by Red_Label]
This is for any of our ARFCOM LEO's who think I am anti-LE because of past posts about true JBT's...


The stupid criminal punk in this story got exactly what he deserved. I don't blame the cop who shot him. In fact, I HONOR the cop who shot him. The kid was armed and had a criminal history. This cop did his job and used force in a situation where it was warranted.

If I really was anti-LE, I wouldn't have made the above statement. Case closed.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:02:03 AM EDT
....chlorine in the gene pool....
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:06:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
This is for any of our ARFCOM LEO's who think I am anti-LE because of past posts about true JBT's...


The stupid criminal punk in this story got exactly what he deserved. I don't blame the cop who shot him. In fact, I HONOR the cop who shot him. The kid was armed and had a criminal history. This cop did his job and used force in a situation where it was warranted.

If I really was anti-LE, I wouldn't have made the above statement. Case closed.



I don't think any cop should be honored for using deadly force. Come on, it's the worst thing a human being could possibly do, to purposfully end the life of another. This ain't the military, they don't get paid to kill people.

However, it is one of those things that must happen from time to time... call it street justice, call it what ever you will. But it's never a good thing when a cop is forced to shoot.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:14:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 9:14:54 AM EDT by Langadune]
No good cop WANTS to shoot another person. Many who have had to use deadly force end up in therapy, most who have used deadly force would be offended at being "honored" for doing it.

If it was a good shoot, then he did his job. If it was not, then he should be disciplined. Since the DA hasn't released details yet, we don't know what really happened. For instance, "hit with 11 bullets"?? Is that fact or is that daddy adding to the drama?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:32:23 AM EDT
Sounds as if the taxpayers are no longer have to pay for the cost of a trial and incarceration for a repeat offender.
Good work, officer!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:40:10 AM EDT
One less scumbag out on the streets.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:42:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

I don't think any cop should be honored for using deadly force. Come on, it's the worst thing a human being could possibly do, to purposfully end the life of another. This ain't the military, they don't get paid to kill people.

However, it is one of those things that must happen from time to time... call it street justice, call it what ever you will. But it's never a good thing when a cop is forced to shoot.



Actually, I can think of worse things to do to people than kill them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:42:35 AM EDT
Break out the good boy photo's.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:42:37 AM EDT
It's a fucked up thing, but this kid brought it on himself. Don't let your mouth (or your actions) write checks that your ass can't cash. We'll have to see what comes up as more details are released.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:45:53 AM EDT
What gets me is the father's attempt to just his son escaping. Liberal fucker.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:46:34 AM EDT



if my name was Leonard Sanchez i'd be sure to have all my friends call me "dirty".


Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:46:49 AM EDT
Some folks are unable to see who their kids are.

It could well be that this guy's son was trying to leave gang life.

It could also be that he screwed somebody over and had to get out of town before he became a corpse, and decided to hide out with ol' dad.

From the sound of it, methinks there is a lot more to the story than what Dad knows.

The police do have Mace and Tasers, but those weapons are only brought into play under specific circumstances. If the officer is facing a credible lethal threat by himself/herself immediately after a chase or when responding to a potential armed robbery suspect, they aren't going to resort to mace. They are going to meet potentially deadly force WITH deadly force.

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:49:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
What gets me is the father's attempt to just his son escaping. Liberal fucker.



The man's son was killed. What do you expect him to do? Say "good riddance"???
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:59:37 AM EDT
Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Eric The(VayaConDios,Muchacho !)Hun
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:04:55 AM EDT
The more stupid one acts, the bigger the price to be paid, generally speaking.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:07:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kman84:
He was on probation for an Arizona larceny case, and he was trying to straighten out his life here, his father said.



How's that workin' out, Leonard?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:09:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JSteensen:

Originally Posted By nationwide:

I don't think any cop should be honored for using deadly force. Come on, it's the worst thing a human being could possibly do, to purposfully end the life of another. This ain't the military, they don't get paid to kill people.

However, it is one of those things that must happen from time to time... call it street justice, call it what ever you will. But it's never a good thing when a cop is forced to shoot.



Actually, I can think of worse things to do to people than kill them.



I was actually referring to the act of pulling the trigger... well, for a normal person at least
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:38:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 10:52:26 AM EDT by AssaultRifler]
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:46:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
It's a fucked up thing, but this kid brought it on himself. Don't let your mouth (or your actions) write checks that your ass can't cash. We'll have to see what comes up as more details are released.



+1 Agreed
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:47:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By palmer:
Break out the good boy photo's.



Oh no, don't do it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:48:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Let's see: another story

Two Moore police cars were involved in the pursuit as well as an off-duty Oklahoma Highway Patrol Trooper who heard the chase on his police radio on his way home, Strickland said.

The chase ended at the intersection of 134th Street and Western Avenue when the officers and trooper exited their cars and saw Melvin point a handgun out of his car window at the trooper, according to police reports.

Both a Moore police officer and the trooper fired. It hasn't been determined which shot killed Melvin. A handgun was located in Melvin's vehicle, Kuykendall said."


--------------

Maybe Melvin chould have pointed a taser or mace out of the window instead of a gun.

non-violent people don't point guns at police, violent people do.

Sorry Leonard, kiss my ass.



Well, that seems to settle it.

Point a gun at the police, and they will most likely shoot you.

Dad just seems desperate not to believe what his boy was involved in.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:48:46 AM EDT
Tough Shit Daddy, where were you when your son was growing up and in trouble? Sounds as if daddy fell down on the job and son got what he deserved after committing a violent armed robbery. Boo frikkin hoo.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:52:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By kman84:
He was on probation for an Arizona larceny case, and he was trying to straighten out his life here, his father said.



How's that workin' out, Leonard?



Funny stuff there FLAL1A.

Stupidity should be painful. Extreme stupidity should be fatal. leonard is a piece of trash that won't be bothering nice people anymore. Too bad he chose to be a piece of trash. Too bad the cop had to ventilate him -- but the cop did and now leonard is no more.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:52:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Let's see: another story

Two Moore police cars were involved in the pursuit as well as an off-duty Oklahoma Highway Patrol Trooper who heard the chase on his police radio on his way home, Strickland said.

The chase ended at the intersection of 134th Street and Western Avenue when the officers and trooper exited their cars and saw Melvin point a handgun out of his car window at the trooper, according to police reports.

Both a Moore police officer and the trooper fired. It hasn't been determined which shot killed Melvin. A handgun was located in Melvin's vehicle, Kuykendall said."


--------------

Maybe Melvin chould have pointed a taser or mace out of the window instead of a gun.

non-violent people don't point guns at police, violent people do.

Sorry Leonard, kiss my ass.



Well, that seems to settle it.

Point a gun at the police, and they will most likely shoot you.

Dad just seems desperate not to believe what his boy was involved in.




Ignore that, I quoted a wrong story
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:54:38 AM EDT
But
but
but- He was just starting to turn his life around!


Just one less asshole running wild on the streets.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:55:58 AM EDT
Live by the sword - die by the sword.

Reap what you sow.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:56:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
What gets me is the father's attempt to just his son escaping. Liberal fucker.



The man's son was killed. What do you expect him to do? Say "good riddance"???

Nothing, he should be inside his fucking home with his family grieving. Not showing that money is more important, he'll end up filing suit if he hasn't already. Pretty sad when we live in a day and time when a parent buries a child and sees dollar signs instead of tears.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:57:40 AM EDT
He was a Blood. You just don't "quit". I'd personally say he was quite active.

BTW: I HAVE had parents tell me "Good Riddance" about their own kids. Even mom and dad can be pushed to that point.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:02:16 AM EDT
One less perp
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:27:22 PM EDT
Cop saved a lot of people from a lot of trouble.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:34:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OKLAHOMA_LAWMAN:


Don't bring a knife to gun fight!







HaHa!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:35:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By JSteensen:

Originally Posted By nationwide:

I don't think any cop should be honored for using deadly force. Come on, it's the worst thing a human being could possibly do, to purposfully end the life of another. This ain't the military, they don't get paid to kill people.

However, it is one of those things that must happen from time to time... call it street justice, call it what ever you will. But it's never a good thing when a cop is forced to shoot.



Actually, I can think of worse things to do to people than kill them.



I was actually referring to the act of pulling the trigger... well, for a normal person at least




There were two good things here. And those were what I was referring to.

#1 - a peice of trash found its way to the garbage and will no longer be preying on others.

#2 - a cop did his job and had to defend his life in the process or the POS would've taken THE COP'S LIFE and then lived-on to suck tax dollars in prison. I HONOR the cop for doing his job and incidently ridding the "justice" system of another POS. I don't care of said POS was someone's kid or not. If my son was such a POS as this and made his way in life by preying on others, then the LAST thing I'd be doing is DEFENDING him for his WRONG actions. I stand by my statements...
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:36:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
He was a Blood. You just don't "quit". I'd personally say he was quite active.

BTW: I HAVE had parents tell me "Good Riddance" about their own kids. Even mom and dad can be pushed to that point.



Precisely! Crap... John and I are in agreement... maybe I AM A JBT! Scary...
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:46:26 PM EDT
A good shoot.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:17:17 PM EDT
Okay, a non-LEO here who AGREES that the guys history was bad, and that escaping, robbing a store, stealing a car and carrying a knife represents a failure to "try and clean himself up"... but I have to question one thing about the story...

He was shot 11 times???

WTF? I was taught that anything more than what is required to eliminate the threat is EXCESSIVE.

one shot or double-tap usually makes a person drop a knife, and unless he was close enough to rush you to stab you, it's not a distance weapon. (Is he gonna thjrow it at you?)

No, not an "innocent lamb" as a previous poster mentioned, but how did they find 11 shots to be a justified shoot? Couldn't it be a case of bad guy & bad cop? In so far that it was a bad decision of the cop.

No Expert
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:24:01 PM EDT
Dad is just trying to wash over the fact that HE fucked up and let the cretan loose upon the earth.

Fuck him, fuck the kid, sorry for the officer who had to shoot.

One less perp. Maybe quite a few less perps when others hear that they can get their asses killed for being fookin' stupid.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:43:30 PM EDT
I can honestly tell you from experience that how many times you pull the trigger will be directly affected by how scared you are, or how much adreniline is pumping. one may think that he shot 5 times, when a 15 round mag is empty.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:13:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 2:17:37 PM EDT by trippletap]

Originally Posted By No_Expert:
Okay, a non-LEO here who AGREES that the guys history was bad, and that escaping, robbing a store, stealing a car and carrying a knife represents a failure to "try and clean himself up"... but I have to question one thing about the story...

He was shot 11 times???

WTF? I was taught that anything more than what is required to eliminate the threat is EXCESSIVE.

one shot or double-tap usually makes a person drop a knife, and unless he was close enough to rush you to stab you, it's not a distance weapon. (Is he gonna thjrow it at you?)
Is this from personal experience of what your have seen on TV/read on the Internet? Ever hear of the "21 foot rule" ?

No, not an "innocent lamb" as a previous poster mentioned, but how did they find 11 shots to be a justified shoot? Couldn't it be a case of bad guy & bad cop? In so far that it was a bad decision of the cop.
Think about how fast can you squeeze off 5 rounds from your pistol while just doing normal, unstressed shooting. Now, how much faster do you think you can do it under stress, adrenaline flowing? Sometimes the perp doesn't know he is dead, and keeps on fighting.

Here's a true story for you, it was captured in its entirety on video.
There was a South Carolina Trooper, Mark Coates, who murdered along I-95 near the South Carolina-Georgia border, shortly after 8 p.m. on Friday, November 20, 1992.
They got into a fight during the stop. Though short in stature, the 300-pound motorist, Blackburn, pushed the 6’0” Trooper, Coates, to the ground.
Then, pulling a derringer from his left pocket, Blackburn fired once, striking Coates in the upper-right shoulder of his bullet-proof vest. The Trooper, managing to kick Blackburn away, fired all six rounds from his .357 at Blackburn. Five of them hit Blackburn at center mass. Trooper Coates regained his footing and retreated towards the front of Blackburns vehicle while calling for backup.
Even though he was now laying on the ground next to Trooper Coates vehicle and bleeding profusely, Blackburn was able to fire one last round at Coates. It went through the Trooper’s arm, between the panels of his vest, passed through his ribs, and fatally struck him in the aorta. Trooper Coates staggered to the front Blackburns vehicle, colapsed and died at the scene.

So much for the "one shot/ double-tap" theory....


No Expert



ETA....I don't mean to sound like I am flaming anyone here. I'm just trying to offer food for thought. Sorry if it seems that way.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:22:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kman84:
Father Says Son Didn't Need To Die

Leonard Sanchez said when a Norman detective told him Wednesday his son was hit 11 times by bullets, he decided not to view the body at the funeral home. Instead, he called an attorney.





That'd be my reaction, too.

Wonder if it was Larry H. Parker?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:26:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 2:30:45 PM EDT by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By No_Expert:
Okay, a non-LEO here who AGREES that the guys history was bad, and that escaping, robbing a store, stealing a car and carrying a knife represents a failure to "try and clean himself up"... but I have to question one thing about the story...

He was shot 11 times???

WTF? I was taught that anything more than what is required to eliminate the threat is EXCESSIVE.

one shot or double-tap usually makes a person drop a knife, and unless he was close enough to rush you to stab you, it's not a distance weapon. (Is he gonna thjrow it at you?)

No, not an "innocent lamb" as a previous poster mentioned, but how did they find 11 shots to be a justified shoot? Couldn't it be a case of bad guy & bad cop? In so far that it was a bad decision of the cop.

No Expert



Aside from the 21 ft rule (which they are thinking should be extended) and the adrenalin rush, It does not matter how many rounds were fired. It's a deadly force situation. He could have called in an B-52 strike and it would have been justified. I'll bet recognition to termination of the threat took all of 2-3 seconds.

Deadly force is not limited in any way. Granted, he'll lose style points, but most folks don't care about that.

The number of hits is not an absolute either. You can never tell how someone will react, no matter how many hits. I've fought with a guy shot 3 times with a 30-30. I can tell you literally dozens of stories of multiple wounds from everything from .22's to shotguns that the recepient just shrugged off until later.

One of my favorites is the guy that took 3 rounds of .45 in the back and didn't realize it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:32:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:50:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kman84:
Father Says Son Didn't Need To Die

The teenager quit the "Bloods" gang in Tucson, Ariz., and moved to Oklahoma to live with his father in rural southeast Norman this year. He was on probation for an Arizona larceny case, and he was trying to straighten out his life here, his father said.

Richard Lee Sanchez was taken to a juvenile center in August after violating parole by staying out all night and then trying to elude police.

Late Sunday, he and three other juveniles escaped from the Alan J. Couch Detention Center about 11:30 p.m.



. <That is a period.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:51:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By No_Expert:
Okay, a non-LEO here who AGREES that the guys history was bad, and that escaping, robbing a store, stealing a car and carrying a knife represents a failure to "try and clean himself up"... but I have to question one thing about the story...

He was shot 11 times???

WTF? I was taught that anything more than what is required to eliminate the threat is EXCESSIVE.

one shot or double-tap usually makes a person drop a knife, and unless he was close enough to rush you to stab you, it's not a distance weapon. (Is he gonna thjrow it at you?)

No, not an "innocent lamb" as a previous poster mentioned, but how did they find 11 shots to be a justified shoot? Couldn't it be a case of bad guy & bad cop? In so far that it was a bad decision of the cop.

No Expert



Your name suits you, Friend.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:59:58 PM EDT
Shoot him until he knows he's shot.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:02:51 PM EDT
Actions have consequences.

Sometimes the consequences are fatal......justifiably fatal.


It's a good shoot, plus we're minus one scumbag. It's good all around.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:06:08 PM EDT
Guy needs Sarge for a lawyer !


I mean he got Beekeeper fired, right ??





Ohh, wait a minute...........
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:08:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 3:09:40 PM EDT by Noname]
I wonder why it is in these situations you never see the family member apologize to the police involved and to society in general for raising a useless parasitic POS, instead of the usual Watts Wail they always engage in...?
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