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Posted: 12/4/2001 4:47:44 AM EDT
this is a question anti's will ask and you have to be ready to answer. saying that you have 30 ar15's 12 shotguns and 20,000 rounds of ammo is no good if you've never used. i don't mean range and hunting, i mean muggging, rape, that sort of thing. don't make stupid jokes about cutting tree limbs with shotguns. OffRoad
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:50:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:52:32 AM EDT
weell gee why don't you keep the story to yourself... hahaha
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:23:19 AM EDT
yes, I was the target of an attempted armed robbery. My Ruger .357 saved my ass. I didn't end up shooting the guy. He gave up when he saw the gun and got 14 years in prison. He's out now and I still see him once in a while on the side of the road. The sheriff deputies all said I should have shot him even though he was giving up. He was out of bail awaiting sentencing on another conviction when he tagged me. Contrary to popular belief, I believe its not so easy for average people to shoot somebody unless you are in absolute fear of life and it is more of a reflex action. One thing I learned is that you want the simplest, most reliable gun possible. Preferably a gun where you pull the trigger and it goes off without cocking, decocking, safety removal or anything else. It needs to be quick to operate with blood in your eyes and coming out of a fog of being unconscious. just my personal real life experience. Take it for what its worth. I carry a glock 19 now with 115+p's. I like it for simplicity and its comfortable to actually carry all day. At the time all I could afford was a $110 Ruger speed six, but it worked when I needed it. I had a couple of other more minor incidents but this post is long enough.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:25:09 AM EDT
thanks for saving your own life, i'm sure somebody close to you appreciates it.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:40:38 AM EDT
Twice... No shots ever fired, and in both instances I let the guys walk! Having hammer back and contact with the trgger is he most frightening experience I have ever dealt with, and it through me into a severe nervous breakdown after the first time ([i]I was relatively new to firearms at the time as well[/i]). The bizarre feeling is that I could have erased some drunk POS from the face of the earth, in less time than it takes to blink an eyelid. When people talk about having a "GOD Complex", they have obviously NEVER been in that situation. You can only pray that God will give you the strength to do what is necessary, and 9 times out of 10, it will be to spare the guys life! The second time, all I did was expose the firearm and let the guy with a knife know that I would win, if it came down to that! FWIW: I've been on the receiving end a couple times as well, and was actually not as frightened as when the firearm was in MY hands... Again, if you haven't been there, you couldn't understand! I also find that *MOST* guys will NOT easily offer up the info surrounding their particular situations, because it makes us go back to "that bad place" that we all to to forget about.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:46:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 5:41:17 AM EDT by OffRoad]
antiussa: whoops if i'm bringing back bad memories.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:49:48 AM EDT
The question to you offroad, is have YOU ever used a firearm to defend yourself or save anothers life..? Don't paint everyone just having "30 ar15's 12 shotguns and 20,000 rounds of ammo", unless you first understand that many of us are competitive target shooters and this is somewhat the norm!
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:53:16 AM EDT
oh no no no! no sorry man, i'm not saying having all those guns and ammo is bad. that's cool if you have em. it's just like guys with big lifted trucks that never go 4wheeling. why have it? if your using em then that's cool. i have not, i'm barly old enought to own a gun, but i've got a friend who's very seriously thinking of buying and ak throught this site and the "legp ak" thing.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:55:17 AM EDT
I hurt someone's feelings once. Actually, I've only ever pointed a gun at one person, and they went away. Funny how big a .45 looks from the business end.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 5:55:58 AM EDT
i imagien it looks pretty scary.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 6:12:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 6:05:02 AM EDT by kindstranger]
No, I have never presented or fired a weapon to avert agression from two legged vermin, but I've used a 12 GA shotgun on more than one occasion to drop very angry hogs intent to do me harm, and I used my Glock 26 to scare off coyotes when I had to sit on a 10 pt. buck until 2 am waiting on my dad to show up with the tractor. I don't think that my life was in real danger in retrospect, but hearing coyotes yip only 50 wards away on a foggy night will scare the pee out of you. Glock and surefire will never be left behind on a deerhunt again, nor will basic survival gear. On the subject, carrying a gun has allowed me do deal with my violent felon neighbor in a direct, cordial and responsible manner and it definately helps to keep me in condition yellow.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 6:49:22 AM EDT
Not to save life or limb, but to save property.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 6:49:40 AM EDT
Did I have a gun? ...actually, no. It was the fall of '92, when I was stationed at NAS Atlanta. One afternoon after work, I went to the cleaners to pick up a fresh uniform. As I went through the front door, something felt wrong! Coulda' been the scrawny, scruffy white guy standing closely behind the elderly Korean lady at the cash register (She owned the shop with her Korean husband). Running on pure instinct, I remember pushing my wife back out the door with my left hand, my feet falling into a good boxer stance and my right hand going back behind my right hip (Ooops, my pistol wasn't there! Oh yeah, I just came from federal property, no guns allowed!) In the ensuing micro-seconds, the scruffy white guy looked at me, the cash register, me again, the elderly Korean lady, and finally, the side door. I guess he felt his chances were better there. He quickly left without saying a word. I asked the cashier what had just happened. She said that he had entered and walked behind the counter, just before I came in. She thought he was about to rob her.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:01:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 6:55:38 AM EDT by fatty]
early 1990's in PA, i awoke to the sound of a fight while at a friend's house. i ran outside and began breaking up the fight. i felt a presesnce behind me and turned to look, well, coming at me was a seven-foot-tall guy with a baseball bat. i managed to get my right arm up, and the bat broke in half over my arm and skull. i hit the ground like a sack of sh!t. bleeding, dizzy and with ears ringing like a siren, i crawled up the stairs to the closet where he kept his 12ga. the thugs were now going to work on my friend with bats and boots, so i ran back down, and through the blood in my eyes, i took aim at the closest guy and screamed to get the F out. he took one look at that fatty bore, and lit out so fast, he almost stepped on his henchmen on the way out, they looked at me, and ran. my friend lived...barely.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:05:05 AM EDT
Yes, I had to discharge my firearm once in defense. AntiUSSA is correct about the "bad place" so, forgive me if I do not elaborate on details. Essentially, the other person is currently alive and well. I am certain that if I had not fired my weapon, I would not be here today to type this reply. My wife and children were present at the time, so I was more worried about what would happen to them if I had been killed or incapacitated. Basically, I worried more that if I could not stop it, they might be next. -JmE-
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:05:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:15:24 AM EDT
Once. I was at home on the weekend. My family had gone to our other home in WI, taking the dogs with them. I was in my room in the basement playing PC games. It was about 1:30 AM, when I heard the front door open (I had gone outside earlier in the night and didn't re-lock it). My room is below the front door/kitchen and I heard somebody stumbling around in the kitchen. Now our other home is 3 hours away, and my whole family but me was up there. I grabbed my 92FS and crept upstairs. All of the lights in the house were off but a light in the kitchen, and I was still hearing movement in the kitchen area. I peaked around the corner and saw one person sitting at the kitchen table. It was not a family member. I stepped around the corner, gun drawn, and said "Looking for a place to sleep?" The guy jumped out of the chair, spun around and stopped. His eyes got huge, and he pissed himself. He did some fast talking... turns out he knew my sister and wanted to say hi to her. He was visably drunk. I ushered him out of the house and made sure to lock the door behind me. I called the cops, and they picked him up for public intoxication. I didn't press any charges. He never stopped by again, and my sister never heard from him since. In hindsight, I should have holed up in my room and called the cops first, but I was pissed! The nerve of someone coming into my house! Av.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:22:18 AM EDT
Yes. Presented only, didn't discharge/wasn't necessary.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:26:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:37:32 AM EDT
Interesting stories, guys. I understand the "bad place", although I have never used a firearm to defend myselfe or anyone else. I hope I never have to. For anyone who is interested, the NRA's First Freedom magazine reprints dozens of stories from newspapers every month containing examples where law-abiding citizens defend life and property with firearms. You might want to check it out.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:40:33 AM EDT
Damn the state of Illinois for not permitting concealed carry. Damn the socialists to hell.
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Indeed... I feel your pain. I'm an Illinoisian too. That story is pretty scary, I'm glad it turned out for the better.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:55:41 AM EDT
I did, once in 1994, a kid pulled a gun on me from a distance (30yds or so?) in my apartment parking lot one night just before sunset. I dropped behind a car and pulled mine out, and when I came up on the other end of the car he ran away. That was that. I think he was just fVcking with me. When delivering pizza, as recounted in my gripping saga "Almost a Mall Ninja", I routinely exposed part of my pistol when delivering to rough neighborhoods. Not enough to appear to be challenging anyone's fragile Gangsta ego, but enough to show that I had teeth. Once the locals recognized that a) I would shoot back hard if attacked, or b) would deliver pizzas to them too if made welcome, they generally lightened up. I probably had to do the pistol thing twice a week for a year. Stressful, but crack dealers tip really well, no joke.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 7:56:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 8:08:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 8:03:41 AM EDT by AR15fan]
A few times in the Military. 3 times off duty when i lived in Oceanslime Ca. To often at work. Once while target shooting: 3 of us that met on the old AR15.com Email list were shooting in the national forrest. About noon we were talking a break when a POS car with two male occupants drives up real slow, staring hard. Say what you want about profiling, but after many years as a cop I know crooks when I see them, and these were Parolees. They stopped on the road at a point about 70 yards behind us, popped the hood, then acted like they were working on the engine. They stood there watching us for about 10 minutes. I had already decided we were being cased and I reloaded my CAR15. I explained what was going on to the other two shooters and one of them loaded his M3 Super 90 with slugs. The two guys got back in the car, and turned it around so it was facing us. They sat there for a few moments watching us, then drove straight towards us, throught the parking area, at about 10 to 15 MPH. As the car was approaching I could see the passanger's side door was ajar, and being held in the closed position by the passengers weak hand (a technigue I use at work when I'm gonna bail out of a car as soon as it stops.) As expected, as soon as the car stopped the passenger jumps out. The wind blew his shirt open, revealing a handgun tucked in his waist band. The passanger paused long enough to realise two armed men with long guns in their hands beats two armed men with handguns in their waist everytime. He mumbled something about having problems with the car's transmission, got back in the car and they drove away. I believe if our guns had been on the ground, and we had been eating lunch or not paying attention, we would have been robbed or killed.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 8:29:09 AM EDT
When I was 18 and still living with my parents, someone tried to break down the door of our house. We confronted him with a pair of rifles and he left, followed shortly after by the arrival of the county sheriff (who couldn't find him despite the fact that he had gone down a dead-end road).
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 8:36:50 AM EDT
In the Army, during Just Cause, and the Gulf war, but that's different. As a civilian, I personally have not. My wife did. When we were still at Bragg, 3 men tried to force her into their car, She drew her Rossi 5 shot .38spl. (Wedding present) and placed it squarely between the guy holding her's eyes. They let go an drove off. The gun saved her life, but turned out to be a POS, that kept breaking firing pins, so I got rid of it. AIRBORNE
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 8:52:05 AM EDT
Well about a year ago I was in the apartment with my six year old son and my wife called me from her cell phone in the parking lotwhile she was unloading groceries. She said there are two guys about 20 feet away from her fight with each other. ( Verbaly ) When one guy pulled a gun and shot the other man point blank 6 times with a 9mm. I heard the shots grabbed my gun and ran like hell to the car in the parking lot. I saw the guy running past me and my wife who was now on the ground ducking in fear. He was not more than 20 feet from me, and I could have chased him and shot him or tried to stop him. But like others have said when your life is not in direct danger, which he was running off now. I let him run checked my wife to see she was ok, and ran like hell again to aid the victim. 12 holes in this man, 6 in 6 out. He died in my arms. But had I been in the parking lot at the time I could have saved a life, or it could have been me.... would I shoot to save my life, yes, would my wife... HELL YES. She did not like my guns till that incident changed her views.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 9:16:33 AM EDT
I wondered if I was a rare civilian that actually used a gun for personal protection. I also watched a guy die from a single .44mag shot center of his Sternum. The bullet went in the front and out his spine. Bone chips were coming out of his shirt in the back. He was bleeding from the mouth and both holes a LOT. It was a domestic dispute that got settled in a public parking lot. I did what little could be done for the guy. I knew the guy and he was really nice but he was outgunned and drew a POS jennings .25 auto on a guy with a Ruger blackhawk. He died right in front of me. I was carrying before then but got even more serious about training after that. Added up I have had 4 events where guns were drawn in self defense. No shots fired at anybody yet thank god. I don't believe you will sleep well for a year or 2 after you shoot somebody. Its bad enough when you have to point a gun at somebody to get them to stop.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 1:36:30 PM EDT
Yes, however, never had to pull the trigger. medcop
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 1:39:36 PM EDT
Yes I did but when the 2 bad guys saw my pistol they ran. I never even had to point it at them, all that was necessary was for me to pull it.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 1:58:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 1:56:25 PM EDT by Monel_Funkawitz]
I've never had to draw, but I had to show that I carry concealed once to save my ass. I was buying gifts for for my sister and dad a few days before their b-day, Nov 18 and 19. My sister wanted cheap subwoofers for her car to use until she sells it. I was down at Sears to get cable, and I saw they had a good deal on subs. I told the cashier girl I wanted a pair of them. She walked into the back, and I noticed two 15-17 year old punks scoping me out. This caught my attention. I went to the cash register, and noticed the girl comming back, I pull out my wallet, and this one guy appears from nowhere, and butts in asking a dumb question to the cashier, trying like hell to catch a glance in my wallet. I was buying some home audio stuff from a friend of mine, and had a stash of cash, which he never caught a flash of. The girl said they were in the front storeroom, and walked away again. I walked around the car audio display again, and noticed these guys following me. I walked past one, and he tried to initiate small talk. About this time, the cashier comes back carrying the subs. I go to pay, and this other guy comes over to ask her a dumb question, trying to look in my wallet. Its VERY hard to pay for something, and not let someone see what is in your wallet who is right next to you, and the cashier is waiting to get paid. I pay, and walk out as quick as I can. Instantly, they try to inconspicously follow me. I used to work at this Sears, so I know where all the security cameras are outside. On purpose, I walk into the view of the cameras, so if something DID happen, my parents would have some kind of evidence to find out who did it. About 30 feet out the door, I catch the door open out the corner of my eye. Its the two punks. I get half way to my truck, and I see them break into a fast jog, and the one in the front reached into his coat side pocket. (Like on a Starter jacket) By the shape of it, it looked like a pistol. At that point, I dropped what I had, turned around, and placed my hand on my gun and flicked off the safety (92FS in a IWB holster), flashing it in plain view. Both stopped, turned around, bouncing into each other, and walked QUICKLY back to their car. I called the cops, and they caught them a ways down the road with a illegal concealed weapon, alcohol, drugs, jewelry, and $2,000 in cash. They found their gun cocked (A 25 cal), with one in the chamber. They had previously, that day, beat one guy VERY badly, almost to the point of killing him to take his stuff. They pointed the gun at him after they took everything, and pulled the trigger. The hammer dropped, but there was no bullet in the chamber. They forgot to load it. When I flashed my gun, supposedly one pissed himself, according to the police.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:19:22 PM EDT
Yes, no details though. For me using my weapon was one heck of an unnerving experience, for a civilian. In my case, shook like hell for two days. Wonder if anyone else got the same aftershock jitters. Been around some gunshot wounds, messy, messy, messy, specially shotgun at close range.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:22:50 PM EDT
BenDover, I cannot begin to comprehend what you must have gone through that day. I truly hope it didn't perminently mess you up. That's the kinda crap that can ruin a person's perspective on life.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:22:59 PM EDT
I once drew down on a deranged attacking turkey that a good friend of mine keeps as a pet. Once I drew my friend saw that I was serious and separated the turkey from me. I don't think the turkey could have killed me, but it could have definately left a bad scratch or maybe even put an eye out! Michael
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 2:51:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By slt223: BenDover, I cannot begin to comprehend what you must have gone through that day. I truly hope it didn't perminently mess you up. That's the kinda crap that can ruin a person's perspective on life.
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I am okay. This was 12 years ago so it has been a long while. You never forget it though. I did get some anxiety and depression for a while but the positive side is that I lost about 60 pounds in 6 weeks following. Couldn't eat or sleep. I can't say that I have ever looked at life the same since. When it is happening it all seems like slow motion but it is actually a split second. Life ends in a blink of an eye and you can't just stuff the slug back into the case.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:04:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Outrider1: Yes, no details though. For me using my weapon was one heck of an unnerving experience, for a civilian. In my case, shook like hell for two days. Wonder if anyone else got the same aftershock jitters.
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I said the same thing in my post on the first page!
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:05:59 PM EDT
Yes,nobody died.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:08:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2001 3:01:55 PM EDT by pbrstreetgang]
i dunno... my story's ambiguous, at best. never even showed the gun. one late night at the repair shop where i work, two young guys came in. that alone is kinda odd, as most of my customers are old men and houswives. one of the kids starts to ask me about repairing his product. except his descriptions are vague, like he dosent know what kind it is and really what the problem is. hmmm... i notice the other one standing in my periferal vision trying to look in the back. i wonder what he is looking for- when all of a sudden the hair stands up on the back of my neck. he is looking to see if i am alone. i say "excuse me for a second", and i step back from the counter through the archway and into the shop. i side step out of sight and draw my glock, [u]racking it as loudly as i could[/u]. i returned it to my waistband, under my shirt. steping back to the counter i say "now what is it i can help you with?" they quickly made excuses and left. never saw them again. you tell me.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 3:28:03 PM EDT
About eight years ago in the parking lot of my apartment complex while taking out the trash four “misguided youth” confronted me. I was able to find cover between cars and go to ready. They decided that taking me was more trouble than it was worth. As AntiUSSA said, it is a BAD place. I knew that I would come out alive no matter what, but I also knew that if I were forced to shoot, there would be the hassle to end all hassles. Just think of the headline – “Local man shoots four children “. After it was over I was awake with adrenaline shakes until 2:00 AM. I’ve had a couple of other incidents, but that one in the closest. I was about one second and two feet from firing.
Link Posted: 12/4/2001 4:07:30 PM EDT
Yes, and no details. Doing this is NOT glorious in any way - at all. I only discovered what I had experienced during a recent Massad Ayoob class (the only guy I know who ever talked about this). Post shooting syndrome - Depression, substance abuse, sleeplessness, impotence, depression, "Mark of Cain" (the impression that everyone looks at you as a killer - often true, too), etc. Nobody wins in self defense situation - you lose less than the dead guy. You do LOSE too. For those of you that fanticize about this, I can't tell you how wrong you are. We've all seen "heros" on TV shoot the bad guy. It's not real. You will be permanently damaged, possibly lose everything you own in civil suit and maybe even be charged with murder. People will never look at you the same. YOU will never look at yourself the same. Avoid it if you can. The one I will talk about is a neighbor's aggressive dog who took me on in my own driveway (I live WAY out in the sticks). They had warned us how uncontrollable to the dog was, but let it run loose. It had confronted several neighbors and even small children who were lucky to get away. Believe it or not, I experienced a bit of depression after putting the animal down and dealing with aftermath (maybe bad memories, maybe I'm a wuss - whatever, I'm human). Bottom line is that neighbors were charged, I remained armed through initial officer arrival and dealings with neighbors (with the gun I put their dog down with) and I traded in my 9mm for a .45 within a matter of weeks. 11 shots (7 in the head) and the thing just looked at me. I currently own no 9mm's as a result of this experience. Those who are not talking about specifics - I don't blame you. I hope you weathered the storm of what you were forced to do with strength. I hope it made you a stronger person, who realizes the responsibility placed upon you. To this day I look at my firearm with mixed feelings. There is no glory. You did what you had to do. It was brave of you to speak of it here. I imagine there are many who read and do not discuss it. I just hope those that have not can learn from those that did. Black Fox
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 12:00:07 AM EDT
I probably shouldn't do this because I know I'm looking at a law suit so I'll give the "Media" details. March this year, call came out of a man with a shotgun threatening another guy at his house. I was right up the road and there in under 45 seconds. I see two guys running to a barn and I jump out and order both to stop... no one does. I draw my sidearm and order both to stop again. One guy turns around, throws up his hands and runs right at me... I've never screamed "Get on the F***ING ground" so many times in my life. So the guy goes to a push up position and I'm wishing I had 3 pairs of eyes. (I'm watching the other guy run behind a berm 50 yards away.)Push up guy yells something about his family and runs inside the house. I go to a concrete pump house next to the barn and take cover... Start yelling at the other guy and all I get is crap back. Try different tactics and empathize with him... nothing. NOW a deputy shows up and starts screaming at him... nothing. Deputy says he's going for his 16 and I said "HEY,, can I borrow your 870" ... I turn just in time to see the guy stand with a shotgun and duck behind the barn... Well now with 3 cops there and an idea where the guy is, 2 go around the barn and I hold position until... The door creeks open and here comes push up guy with his family in tow... I run to them covering his ass yelling at him to get the hell out of here! With him and his brood out of the yard, I run back to the pump house. Next thing ya know I'm screaming into my mike the chilling words "SHOTS FIRED." - Now, in the police academy they showed us what a slug or 7.62 can do to a cinder block wall and I'm thinking the 100 year old oak across the backyard is a damn sight safer. I kick the backyard fence gate off it's hinges and in mid stride to the tree... I heard all the pellets whizzing past me... I hit the deck and scramble behind a pete gravel pile.. I look over just in time to see him shoulder and fire again... the ground erupts in front of me.. I unsafe and let loose..... He spins and falls out of sight.... Well I say,, just in time to hear rapid pistol fire, I look up and the guy is gunning down approaching cop cars on the side street. Now comes the fear... I find myself pinned between the rocks and a chicken wire fence attached to green metal stakes... (I saw it on the way to the oak but never had time to make it to jump the fence.) Now the radio won't stop, I can't hear shit, I keep seeing Rambo drawing down on things in the yard... I'm almost pissing myself and my hand is going cold from gripping my pistol over the rock pile... Now another cop shows up on the side of the house and lends me his eyes and weapon as I use my Leatherman to pry the nipples off the fence wire. I unhook my duty belt, slide my ass under the fence, push up and wiggle underneath to the otherside. I grab all my gear, pull it with me, roll to the house side stand up and wait for Tac to show up.... All in all, Tac drops him and I realize I will never be the same. I will remember this... When the investigators showed up, one said this to me. "At least you can walk away knowing your not a coward." I wouldn't have been a cop if I was.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 8:26:37 AM EDT
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