[ARCHIVED THREAD] - del (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 4/3/2015 11:38:22 PM EDT
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+1 Holy shit! I'd be in the ER yesterday. OP, how can you not be worried about this? Quoted:
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I think your dad is under-reacting. I'd get a second opinion. +1 Holy shit! I'd be in the ER yesterday. OP, how can you not be worried about this? ....or another Dad!
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....or another Dad!
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I think your dad is under-reacting. I'd get a second opinion. +1 Holy shit! I'd be in the ER yesterday. OP, how can you not be worried about this? ....or another Dad!
Exactly! How can a doctor, regardless of specialty, not know that subcutaneous emphysema needs to be checked out immediately!? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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How the heck does that happen swimming? Probably a ruptured bleb in the upper lung leading to pneumothorax and then subcutaneous emphysema. If he has little symptoms otherwise then they may not need to do anything but monitor it, but it's not something you try to treat yourself. ![]() Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Exactly! How can a doctor, regardless of specialty, not know that subcutaneous emphysema needs to be checked out or immediately!? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quoted:
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I think your dad is under-reacting. I'd get a second opinion. +1 Holy shit! I'd be in the ER yesterday. OP, how can you not be worried about this? ....or another Dad!
Exactly! How can a doctor, regardless of specialty, not know that subcutaneous emphysema needs to be checked out or immediately!? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Well given the fact he is was able to swim laps, drive himself home and chill with no associated symptoms, he is doing alright. More over OP doesn't sound super concerned, didn't disregard it and sought some advice. There is a thread current thread about an $8700 kidney stone bill. Barring any abnormal vital signs or priority symptoms, what exactly do the ER types expect the Dr's to do? Good for you OP. Current Paramedic Checking In |
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Well given the fact he is was able to swim laps, drive himself home and chill with no associated symptoms, he is doing alright. More over OP doesn't sound super concerned, didn't disregard it and sought some advice. There is a thread current thread about an $8700 kidney stone bill. Barring any abnormal vital signs or priority symptoms, what exactly do the ER types expect the Dr's to do? Good for you OP. Current Paramedic Checking In Quoted:
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I think your dad is under-reacting. I'd get a second opinion. +1 Holy shit! I'd be in the ER yesterday. OP, how can you not be worried about this? ....or another Dad!
Exactly! How can a doctor, regardless of specialty, not know that subcutaneous emphysema needs to be checked out or immediately!? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Well given the fact he is was able to swim laps, drive himself home and chill with no associated symptoms, he is doing alright. More over OP doesn't sound super concerned, didn't disregard it and sought some advice. There is a thread current thread about an $8700 kidney stone bill. Barring any abnormal vital signs or priority symptoms, what exactly do the ER types expect the Dr's to do? Good for you OP. Current Paramedic Checking In A chest x-ray for starters. This isn't something to debate. Someone has subcutaneous emphysema you go to the ER now. No, you don't stop by McDonalds for a cheese, egg and bacon biscuit. This thread is a great example of non-MD's not recognizing signs or symptoms that need to be checked out immediately in the ER. Is it likely that he will need a chest tube? No. But that's not something the OP decides. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Well given the fact he is was able to swim laps, drive himself home and chill with no associated symptoms, he is doing alright. More over OP doesn't sound super concerned, didn't disregard it and sought some advice. There is a thread current thread about an $8700 kidney stone bill. Barring any abnormal vital signs or priority symptoms, what exactly do the ER types expect the Dr's to do? Good for you OP. Current Paramedic Checking In Quoted:
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I think your dad is under-reacting. I'd get a second opinion. +1 Holy shit! I'd be in the ER yesterday. OP, how can you not be worried about this? ....or another Dad!
Exactly! How can a doctor, regardless of specialty, not know that subcutaneous emphysema needs to be checked out or immediately!? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Well given the fact he is was able to swim laps, drive himself home and chill with no associated symptoms, he is doing alright. More over OP doesn't sound super concerned, didn't disregard it and sought some advice. There is a thread current thread about an $8700 kidney stone bill. Barring any abnormal vital signs or priority symptoms, what exactly do the ER types expect the Dr's to do? Good for you OP. Current Paramedic Checking In Agreed. OP said his voice was different. My thought is he popped a small hole near the larynx and the vocal cord is swollen. Unless there are other symptoms, the plan would be observation. A trip to the ER will get you a CT neck and chest, oxygen, IV, and a $5-10 thousand dollar bill. It will go away. Chest pain, trouble breathing... Go to ER. ETA: not a paramedic. I'm the guy the ER doc calls to ask what to do when this happens. |
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Well given the fact he is was able to swim laps, drive himself home and chill with no associated symptoms, he is doing alright. More over OP doesn't sound super concerned, didn't disregard it and sought some advice. There is a thread current thread about an $8700 kidney stone bill. Barring any abnormal vital signs or priority symptoms, what exactly do the ER types expect the Dr's to do? Good for you OP. Current Paramedic Checking In Quoted:
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I think your dad is under-reacting. I'd get a second opinion. +1 Holy shit! I'd be in the ER yesterday. OP, how can you not be worried about this? ....or another Dad!
Exactly! How can a doctor, regardless of specialty, not know that subcutaneous emphysema needs to be checked out or immediately!? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Well given the fact he is was able to swim laps, drive himself home and chill with no associated symptoms, he is doing alright. More over OP doesn't sound super concerned, didn't disregard it and sought some advice. There is a thread current thread about an $8700 kidney stone bill. Barring any abnormal vital signs or priority symptoms, what exactly do the ER types expect the Dr's to do? Good for you OP. Current Paramedic Checking In How can you determine vitals are normal? Did the OP's father check BP and whatnot over the phone? Someone else's high ER bill is irrelevant. OP needs to go see his doctor, not a relative or a paramedic. |
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A chest x-ray for starters. This isn't something to debate. Someone has subcutaneous emphysema you go to the ER now. No, you don't stop by McDonalds for a cheese, egg and bacon biscuit. This thread is a great example of non-MD's not recognizing signs or symptoms that need to be checked out immediately in the ER. Is it likely that he will need a chest tube? No. But that's not something the OP decides. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Debatable. OP are you tall and thin? Let's assume OP has a pneumothorax, 2nd to exertion while swimming. How many hours have passed since he swam? Have any symptoms presented? Do you feel worse while walking? Does anyone around have a stethoscope? Of the handle full of people I've seen with a lung down, by spontaneous pneumothorax, it was pretty obvious. With increased work of breathing and marked dyspena and pain. A small tear in his lung may not require a chest tube in the presence of good lung sounds and a lung that's not completely dropped. Also the OP gets to decide exactly what medical treatment he receives.... Consent how does it work? ETA: OP is a former paramedic and sts he has no SOB or Tachycardia.... For all relevant discussion BP is non important. If OP feels okay, he should monitor his condition. Hang out with friends and proceed to ER if it worsens |
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Well given the fact he is was able to swim laps, drive himself home and chill with no associated symptoms, he is doing alright. More over OP doesn't sound super concerned, didn't disregard it and sought some advice. There is a thread current thread about an $8700 kidney stone bill. Barring any abnormal vital signs or priority symptoms, what exactly do the ER types expect the Dr's to do? Good for you OP. Current Paramedic Checking In Quoted:
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I think your dad is under-reacting. I'd get a second opinion. +1 Holy shit! I'd be in the ER yesterday. OP, how can you not be worried about this? ....or another Dad!
Exactly! How can a doctor, regardless of specialty, not know that subcutaneous emphysema needs to be checked out or immediately!? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Well given the fact he is was able to swim laps, drive himself home and chill with no associated symptoms, he is doing alright. More over OP doesn't sound super concerned, didn't disregard it and sought some advice. There is a thread current thread about an $8700 kidney stone bill. Barring any abnormal vital signs or priority symptoms, what exactly do the ER types expect the Dr's to do? Good for you OP. Current Paramedic Checking In SubQ emphysema is caused by air tracking from somewhere in the respiratory system to the subq tissues. There is a hole somewhere in his respiratory tree. That he has not had more "serious" (although subQ emphysema is a doggone serious symptom in and of itself) is most likely due to the fact that the subQ hole does not communicate with the outside air directly and is of small size. |
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I'm glad it's not just me. It's amazing how many non-emergency cases you'll see during your next shift but the pneumothorax stays home!
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you are not already on your way to the ER? And you're a paramedic? Tha f*ck?
I absolutely NEVER blow off SQ air. I'm glad it's not just me. It's amazing how many non-emergency cases you'll see during your next shift but the pneumothorax stays home!
No, common sense and the standard of care is not to disregard SQ air. On a side note, had a guy come in and complain of shoulder pain. Upper shoulder was full of SQ air and crackled like rice crispies. Examined down the arm to fine all the needle tracks all over the place. Seems if he couldn't get a vein he'd just push the plunger and hope for the best and filled his arm with air. |
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No, common sense and the standard of care is not to disregard SQ air. On a side note, had a guy come in and complain of shoulder pain. Upper shoulder was full of SQ air and crackled like rice crispies. Examined down the arm to fine all the needle tracks all over the place. Seems if he couldn't get a vein he'd just push the plunger and hope for the best and filled his arm with air. Quoted:
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you are not already on your way to the ER? And you're a paramedic? Tha f*ck?
I absolutely NEVER blow off SQ air. I'm glad it's not just me. It's amazing how many non-emergency cases you'll see during your next shift but the pneumothorax stays home!
No, common sense and the standard of care is not to disregard SQ air. On a side note, had a guy come in and complain of shoulder pain. Upper shoulder was full of SQ air and crackled like rice crispies. Examined down the arm to fine all the needle tracks all over the place. Seems if he couldn't get a vein he'd just push the plunger and hope for the best and filled his arm with air. Or he had a necrotizing poly microbial infection that was tracking along that fascial plane... that happens to IVDA. |
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Disclaimer: This post does not constitute medical advice. I am a doctor, but not YOUR doctor. I've never examined you, and we do not have a doctor-patient relationship. The rest of this post is hypothetical.
I'm going to put some f*ckin' knowledge in here. Some of you are not using your heads... straight-up. (sorry... but I don't know a nicer way to communicate something this serious). I'm not having an ARFcommer sit at home and die because somebody with superficial knowledge told him he was fine. So here is the non-sugar-coated version: a person with SQ air has a significant likelihood of NOT being f*cking fine. Here is a link to Medline at the NIH. They talk about SQ air. I'll quote a section for you to save you the click: When to Contact a Medical Professional:
Most of the conditions that cause subcutaneous emphysema are very severe, and you are likely already being treated by a doctor. Sometimes a hospital stay is needed, especially if due to an infection. On RARE occasion I've seen SQ air in a patient who wasn't badly-injured, or in need of some sort of intervention. The ones I've seen who didn't require admission or a chest tube were rib fractures and chest-wall injuries (without pneumothorax), and in pediatric Asthma. Everybody else had some bad sh*t happening... pneumothorax, bronchial disruption, esophageal perforation, etc. The last case I had with SQ air was an esophageal rupture. Patient had been eating and choked on a piece of food... no vomiting. Came in with some chest/back pain, swollen neck, and SQ air. I ran them over to Radiology for a CT scan with oral gastrograffin, and the patient ended up getting rushed to the OR by the cardiothoracic surgeon. Got a thoracotomy, and barely avoided dying of mediastinitis. So yeah... I'd go to the ER if I were a person with SQ air in my neck. My best guess based on a hypothetical history is that such a person either has a small pneumo (you'd probably hear a big one, but the stethoscope can be a subtle and insensitive instrument in inexperienced hands), or they could have choked on some water and have an esophageal perf. They could also have a small bronchial injury if they produced enough barotrauma inhaling/exhaling forcefully while in the pool. Barotrauma can also force air into the pleural space. I never ignore SQ air. It can be a harbinger of serious pathology. |
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Went swimming today for the first time in a few months, and swam laps fairly intensely to do cardio. Got out of the pool and my voice was different, I couldn't feel like I could talk right and my neck hurt. Was persistent throughout the afternoon. Siting on the couch feeling my neck and sure enough, the typical crackles of sub-q air. I know I don't have a pneumothorax due to to lack of any shortness of breath/tachycardia. I'd seen sub-q air before as a paramedic but always in the chest cavity due to trauma, so it kinda freaked me out when I felt it. Called my Dad (an MD) and he said sleep on it and if it doesn't get better see the doc. Anyone else ever get this? Who wants my guns? ![]() Did your dad just take out a life insurance policy on you?
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Good for you OP. Current Paramedic ETA: not a paramedic. I'm the guy the ER doc calls to ask what to do when this happens. I would not have to call to ask, but I would call for the follow up or admission. Needs an at least X-ray and possibly a Heimlich valve. May also need a at chest and soft tissue neck CT Dysphonia can be bad Juju As mentioned before a small bleb most likely, or it could be Ebolaids ER Doc standing by.... |
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I would not have to call to ask, but I would call for the follow up or admission. Needs an at least X-ray and possibly a Heimlich valve. May also need a at chest and soft tissue neck CT Dysphonia can be bad Juju As mentioned before a small bleb most likely, or it could be Ebolaids ER Doc standing by.... Nor would I. And my distinguished ER colleague is right about the vocal change. Dysphonia implies a compromise or injury of the laryngeal nerve (either superior or recurrent branch). This is important because the Recurrent Branches go well down into the mediastinum (center of your chest). The left branch loops around the Aortic arch, and the right branch around the right Subclavian artery. Never a good idea to blow off that particular symptom... especially in the setting of SQ air. |
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Agreed. OP said his voice was different. My thought is he popped a small hole near the larynx and the vocal cord is swollen. Unless there are other symptoms, the plan would be observation. A trip to the ER will get you a CT neck and chest, oxygen, IV, and a $5-10 thousand dollar bill. It will go away. Chest pain, trouble breathing... Go to ER. ETA: not a paramedic. I'm the guy the ER doc calls to ask what to do when this happens. Quoted:
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+1 Holy shit! I'd be in the ER yesterday. OP, how can you not be worried about this? ....or another Dad!
Exactly! How can a doctor, regardless of specialty, not know that subcutaneous emphysema needs to be checked out or immediately!? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Well given the fact he is was able to swim laps, drive himself home and chill with no associated symptoms, he is doing alright. More over OP doesn't sound super concerned, didn't disregard it and sought some advice. There is a thread current thread about an $8700 kidney stone bill. Barring any abnormal vital signs or priority symptoms, what exactly do the ER types expect the Dr's to do? Good for you OP. Current Paramedic Checking In Agreed. OP said his voice was different. My thought is he popped a small hole near the larynx and the vocal cord is swollen. Unless there are other symptoms, the plan would be observation. A trip to the ER will get you a CT neck and chest, oxygen, IV, and a $5-10 thousand dollar bill. It will go away. Chest pain, trouble breathing... Go to ER. ETA: not a paramedic. I'm the guy the ER doc calls to ask what to do when this happens. Oh, so a respiratory therapist that fancies himself a pulmonologist/ENT? |
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Oh, so a respiratory therapist that fancies himself a pulmonologist/ENT? Quoted:
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Agreed. OP said his voice was different. My thought is he popped a small hole near the larynx and the vocal cord is swollen. Unless there are other symptoms, the plan would be observation. A trip to the ER will get you a CT neck and chest, oxygen, IV, and a $5-10 thousand dollar bill. It will go away. Chest pain, trouble breathing... Go to ER. ETA: not a paramedic. I'm the guy the ER doc calls to ask what to do when this happens. Oh, so a respiratory therapist that fancies himself a pulmonologist/ENT? **** deleted *****. Never mind. There are actually important issues in this thread, and I'm not going to derail it into a pissing contest. OP? I would go to the ER. You've been apprised of the potential risks and life-threatening things this could be. You cannot plead ignorance. But it's your life.
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**** deleted *****. Never mind. There are actually important issues in this thread, and I'm not going to derail it into a pissing contest. OP? I would go to the ER. You've been apprised of the potential risks and life-threatening things this could be. You cannot plead ignorance. But it's your life. ![]() Quoted:
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Agreed. OP said his voice was different. My thought is he popped a small hole near the larynx and the vocal cord is swollen. Unless there are other symptoms, the plan would be observation. A trip to the ER will get you a CT neck and chest, oxygen, IV, and a $5-10 thousand dollar bill. It will go away. Chest pain, trouble breathing... Go to ER. ETA: not a paramedic. I'm the guy the ER doc calls to ask what to do when this happens. Oh, so a respiratory therapist that fancies himself a pulmonologist/ENT? **** deleted *****. Never mind. There are actually important issues in this thread, and I'm not going to derail it into a pissing contest. OP? I would go to the ER. You've been apprised of the potential risks and life-threatening things this could be. You cannot plead ignorance. But it's your life. ![]() I'm awake, still no difficulty breathing, voice is a bit better this am, throat hurts a bit less. Pulse is still normal, still have a bit of sub-q air but it seems to be a bit less. Thanks for the advice, I might run over to the ED this afternoon just to make sure everything is on the up and up. |
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I'm awake, still no difficulty breathing, voice is a bit better this am, throat hurts a bit less. Pulse is still normal, still have a bit of sub-q air but it seems to be a bit less. Thanks for the advice, I might run over to the ED this afternoon just to make sure everything is on the up and up. Quoted:
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Agreed. OP said his voice was different. My thought is he popped a small hole near the larynx and the vocal cord is swollen. Unless there are other symptoms, the plan would be observation. A trip to the ER will get you a CT neck and chest, oxygen, IV, and a $5-10 thousand dollar bill. It will go away. Chest pain, trouble breathing... Go to ER. ETA: not a paramedic. I'm the guy the ER doc calls to ask what to do when this happens. Oh, so a respiratory therapist that fancies himself a pulmonologist/ENT? **** deleted *****. Never mind. There are actually important issues in this thread, and I'm not going to derail it into a pissing contest. OP? I would go to the ER. You've been apprised of the potential risks and life-threatening things this could be. You cannot plead ignorance. But it's your life. ![]() I'm awake, still no difficulty breathing, voice is a bit better this am, throat hurts a bit less. Pulse is still normal, still have a bit of sub-q air but it seems to be a bit less. Thanks for the advice, I might run over to the ED this afternoon just to make sure everything is on the up and up. People who make their emergent medical decisions the way you do, are job security for people like TGM, C-4, NavyDoc1, oscardeuce, me, (plus many others whose screen names aren't here) in the medical field. Did you hold your breath & Valsalva while swimming? Worse, but not exactly uncommon, did you have a buddy on SCUBA at the bottom that gave you a hit off the regulator for fun? It's like a patient I had this week who waited a week to see if his/her paralysis would go away. After a week, it didn't, so he/she decided it might be good to listen to his/her spouse and visit the ER.
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Went to the ED to rule anything serious out, on advice of TheGrayMan. Let's be clear, if I would have had a Pt with any sub-Q air regardless of location I would insist they get seen at the ER immediately. But being that it's me and that my vitals were stable and I didn't have any SOB, severe chest pain, etc I didn't personally feel rushing myself to the ER last night was warranted. Like any good medical proffesional I'm a pretty bad patient.
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Went to the ED to rule anything serious out, on advice of TheGrayMan. Let's be clear, if I would have had a Pt with any sub-Q air regardless of location I would insist they get seen at the ER immediately. But being that it's me and that my vitals were stable and I didn't have any SOB, severe chest pain, etc I didn't personally feel rushing myself to the ER last night was warranted. Like any good medical proffesional I'm a pretty bad patient. ![]() Yeah... well... OK... true enough... and I should probably dial back my criticism, now that I think about a few of the dumb-ass medical decisions I've made for myself over the years. Actually... now that I think more about it, go ahead and label me a giant hypocritical douchenozzle. |
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Yeah... well... OK... true enough... and I should probably dial back my criticism, now that I think about a few of the dumb-ass medical decisions I've made for myself over the years. Actually... now that I think more about it, go ahead and label me a giant hypocritical douchenozzle. Quoted:
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Went to the ED to rule anything serious out, on advice of TheGrayMan. Let's be clear, if I would have had a Pt with any sub-Q air regardless of location I would insist they get seen at the ER immediately. But being that it's me and that my vitals were stable and I didn't have any SOB, severe chest pain, etc I didn't personally feel rushing myself to the ER last night was warranted. Like any good medical proffesional I'm a pretty bad patient. ![]() Yeah... well... OK... true enough... and I should probably dial back my criticism, now that I think about a few of the dumb-ass medical decisions I've made for myself over the years. Actually... now that I think more about it, go ahead and label me a giant hypocritical douchenozzle. I'm right there with you guys. The last time I went somewhere for a sick visit, it was to make my wife stop hounding me. The doc office staff saw me park the car and shamble in like a zombie movie extra. They said, "we saw you in the parking lot and said, 'that's a sick man.'" The doc is a friend of mine, and the conversation went something like this. Him: You and I both know you have pneumonia. We don't need an X-ray to tell us that, and you heard the same thing with your stethoscope that I did.
We won't talk about the time an orthopedic surgeon & I put my foot in the fluoroscope. "Yep, it's broken." |
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I'm right there with you guys. The last time I went somewhere for a sick visit, it was to make my wife stop hounding me. The doc office staff saw me park the car and shamble in like a zombie movie extra. They said, "we saw you in the parking lot and said, 'that's a sick man.'" The doc is a friend of mine, and the conversation went something like this. Him: You and I both know you have pneumonia. We don't need an X-ray to tell us that, and you heard the same thing with your stethoscope that I did.
We won't talk about the time an orthopedic surgeon & I put my foot in the fluoroscope. "Yep, it's broken." I once refused to go to the ER with an O2 sat of 70% (yes, measured by pulse-ox). So I should probably shut up. (I actually knew what I had, and how to fix it... and I did so successfully... but there was significant mortality risk involved, and I should have sought help) |
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Well I'm out of the ER. They did some chest x-rays and I got told what I thought I was going to get told. I have pneumomediastinum and should rest for 7-10 days and not do anything stupid like go SCUBA diving, and of course come back if I get SOB or chest pain.
For you non medical types, I probably popped a tiny avioili (tiny balloon) at the end of my bronchioles (tiny tubes) when I held my breath and swam. It will evenually heal on its own with rest. Still was a good idea to get checked and make sure there was nothing more serious going on. Back to your regular scheduled programming, thanks for the concern! |
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How the heck does that happen swimming? Didn't think it was possible It is... seen it in Navy divers a few times. Usually it requires some pretty significant barotrauma. The interesting thing about pneumomediastinum is that you can hear it when you put the stethoscope on their chest. Remember Captain Crunch? There's a physical finding called Hamman's Crunch... you literally can hear the crepitance (crunching) with their heartbeat. Glad you're OK, OP. |
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It is... seen it in Navy divers a few times. Usually it requires some pretty significant barotrauma. The interesting thing about pneumomediastinum is that you can hear it when you put the stethoscope on their chest. Remember Captain Crunch? There's a physical finding called Hamman's Crunch... you literally can hear the crepitance (crunching) with their heartbeat. Glad you're OK, OP. Quoted:
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How the heck does that happen swimming? Didn't think it was possible It is... seen it in Navy divers a few times. Usually it requires some pretty significant barotrauma. The interesting thing about pneumomediastinum is that you can hear it when you put the stethoscope on their chest. Remember Captain Crunch? There's a physical finding called Hamman's Crunch... you literally can hear the crepitance (crunching) with their heartbeat. Glad you're OK, OP. No worries, it was probably warranted. I kinda didn't believe it at first because it didn't make sense based on past injuries I had seen, there was no blunt trauma, I wasn't scuba diving, I didn't have SOB, etc. It just didn't add up to me so I kinda dismissed it and thought I was being a hypochondriac. To be honest from a medical perspective it was a fairly intriguing phenomenon. Finally I felt my neck again last night and knew it wasn't just in my head so I called my Dad. He knew I didn't have any of the above serious complications after nearly 5-6 hours after the injury so he wasn't too concerned, but basically go in to the ER if any of that started or it didn't get better. He said he knew I probably wouldn't want to be sitting next to all the shitheads I normally deal with at work last night anyway. Then again he once missed my sisters ankle fracture when she was 12 so he has a bit of a history of missed diagnoses on family members.
ETA I am a fairly avid scuba diver. I've never had a known diving injury, was always cautious about not holding my breath, etc. Any chance this could have been an exacerbation of an old diving injury with no previous symptoms? |

i can't believe some of the suggestions.
You and I both know you have pneumonia. We don't need an X-ray to tell us that, and you heard the same thing with your stethoscope that I did.