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4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 3/20/2013 12:58:15 PM EDT
I refuse to deal with the TSA groping, virtual strip searches, and general incompetence in the name of security kabuki theater so I've been thinking of alternative methods of travel, unfortunately flying still makes more sense, and is more economical than other methods as far as I can tell, but it is only an option if I can avoid the TSA. So I was thinking about private/charter planes, I have heard of several companies/websites offering private plane timeshares, or seats on otherwise empty corporate jets that happen to be heading that way anyway, but I have forgotten their names, does anyone have the links?

I have never flown private before, what's the procedure?, can you indeed bypass the TSA?, are weapons still prohibited? I would love not to have to disarm, and trust the baggage gorillas not to damage, loose, or steal my pistol.

About how much will this cost? I realize that private, and charter flights will cost more, but I'm betting they are still cheaper than the non flying alternatives, am I right?

The trip is not immediately scheduled, and I don't have the details, I'm more working out the hypothetical for planning purposes, but assume a range of about 2,000 miles give, or take each way, and I would need a round trip.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 1:11:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2013 1:14:51 PM EDT by Alpaca]
Yes, there is generally no TSA or security check point. There may be a front desk with a guy that has to buzz you to go out to where the aircraft are.

There is typically a separate corporate terminal, or at some small airports you will just walk on the plane from the tarmac.

It's not cheap. If you charter a Turbo Commander 690 or a 30 year old Learjet, you may be able to get the price down to $1,000 - $1,500 per hour in some areas. There are some companies that offer good rates on the Piaggio Avanti, which is a newer turboprop with a very nice interior... you may be able to get one of those for $2,200 an hour.

If you are seriously rich I would suggest just using Net Jets, they are the best in the fractional business... and also one of the most expensive.

The sky is the limit really... you can easily spend $10,000 - $20,000 an hour for nicer jets like the Falcon's, Gulfstream's or a BBJ.

Most of the more affordable stuff wont have a range of 2,000 miles, so you will be looking at a fuel stop. On something like the Piaggio Avanti you would be looking at around $20,000 round trip and you would have to do a fuel stop.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 1:55:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2013 5:56:43 PM EDT by S_A_C]
Originally Posted By Alpaca:
Yes, there is generally no TSA or security check point. There may be a front desk with a guy that has to buzz you to go out to where the aircraft are.

There is typically a separate corporate terminal, or at some small airports you will just walk on the plane from the tarmac.

It's not cheap. If you charter a Turbo Commander 690 or a 30 year old Learjet, you may be able to get the price down to $1,000 - $1,500 per hour in some areas. There are some companies that offer good rates on the Piaggio Avanti, which is a newer turboprop with a very nice interior... you may be able to get one of those for $2,200 an hour.

If you are seriously rich I would suggest just using Net Jets, they are the best in the fractional business... and also one of the most expensive.

The sky is the limit really... you can easily spend $10,000 - $20,000 an hour for nicer jets like the Falcon's, Gulfstream's or a BBJ.

Most of the more affordable stuff wont have a range of 2,000 miles, so you will be looking at a fuel stop. On something like the Piaggio Avanti you would be looking at around $20,000 round trip and you would have to do a fuel stop.


I don't care about fuel stops, connecting flights, or anything of the sort, unfortunately my max budget is about $500 each way. I suppose I could stretch it to about $3,000, but at that point it would be cheaper to just use another option.

My motivation is that I'm toying with the idea of moving out of state, and I was looking for a way to travel home to visit family on a farly regular basis, while still being able to do it with some efficiency, and economy while not having to deal with the TSA. At $500 I'm visiting once a month, at $3,000 I'me visiting once every 6 months. Michigan is getting to the point of being completely unlivable, the economy is completely trashed, but all my Family is here so I'm reluctant to leave, that's really the ONLY thing keeping me here, but still I feel myself reaching for the eject handles.

Fuck the TSA, and their security kabuki theater.. If those numbers are accurate than it appears my options are to eighther stay with the sinking ship, get violated by the TSA to make idiots feel safer all in the name of political correctness, almost never see my family, or have to use overpriced, slow, and wildly inefficient forms of travel. (Amtrack for instance when I checked, wanted more than double what flying would cost, would take over 48 hours on a mianering non sensical trip back, and forth across the country all to end up 200 miles away from my destination, oh yeah, that's an effecient form of travel worth the exorbitant price.). Some options.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 1:58:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2013 1:59:59 PM EDT by Ameshawki]
For the average Joe charter just isn't an option. How far are you moving away? You can cover a pretty good distance in 12 hours in a car. The other question is just how often do you think you need to see your family? My mom is 180 miles away and I don't get to her place anywhere close to once a month.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 2:00:07 PM EDT
Eject from Michigan and deal with the TSA 2-3 times per year.

You have to go where the opportunity is to live a better life. Don't let the TSA be an excuse to not better yourself.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 2:02:53 PM EDT
Find someone with a Cessna that will fly you for a few hours if your budget is $500 barely find a round trip commercial fare for that
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 2:06:42 PM EDT
It is way out of your price range, Just join the rest of the unwashed masses on commercial airliners.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 2:10:52 PM EDT
When you fly part 135 you, in most cases, bypass the security theater.

At one company I worked for our King Air 200 chartered for $1100/hr with a 3hr minimum. If the crew has to sit and wait for you, you paid a rate for that too. Weapons were banned but "concealed means concealed." Our Citations went up to sometimes $5k/hr.

Another company I worked for flew a variety of aircraft starting with single engine pistons which rent for $550/hr with similar conditions.

Basically, no, it's not cheaper but it's a hell of a lot more convenient.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 2:15:42 PM EDT
You don't know what turbulence is until you've experienced it in a little Piper Navajo. Almost as fun is watching through the windscreen as the pilot crabs the aircraft against a strong crosswind on final approach...

Flying charter on small aircraft is not for the faint of heart.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 2:18:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Alpaca:
Eject from Michigan and deal with the TSA 2-3 times per year.

You have to go where the opportunity is to live a better life. Don't let the TSA be an excuse to not better yourself.


I'm slowly coming to this conclusion, but I feel VERY strongly about my abject hatred of the TSA, and the intrusive government which they represent, I just can't bringmyself to willingly let my civil rights, and basic human decency be violated all so a 19 year old America hating Saudi chanting allah ackbar doesn't feel offendedwhen the goverment goon shoves their hands down my pants while waiving him through. It would really leave me feeling violated, dirty, and incredibly angry, and with my personality is something I would dwell on, and fume over for the rest of my life. I feel so strongly about this that if "randomly selected" for "enhanced screening" all for the sake of flying I would just cancle the entire trip rather than submit, and that alone would send me in to a lingering rage, even more so if my ticket was not refunded in full.

Ironically Texas is on my short list, how is the situation down their?
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 2:18:58 PM EDT
Well you could get your Private Pilots License and rent a plane when needed or buy a 40 year old single engine but most only fly at about 115 mph and need to stop for fuel every 400 miles +-. I found that it only made sense if the trip was more than 100 miles and less than 400, unless you just couldn't get there from here. If you are maxing out the planes capacity it makes more sense than for one person financially.
Plus when you go via air taxi you either pay for the planes empty return or the waiting time for the plane and pilot. If you fly it your self, there is a minimum number of hours that you pay for each day whether you actually fly or not. When I rented a twin to fly to NY for a week I had to pay 3 hours per day or 21 hours, even though the actual flight time was only 9 hours each way or 18 hours. If I flew from Vero Beach to the Bahamas I might use 3 hours and still get charged for 21 for the week.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 3:28:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2013 3:31:14 PM EDT by Alpaca]

I'm slowly coming to this conclusion, but I feel VERY strongly about my abject hatred of the TSA, and the intrusive government which they represent, I just can't bringmyself to willingly let my civil rights, and basic human decency be violated all so a 19 year old America hating Saudi chanting allah ackbar doesn't feel offendedwhen the goverment goon shoves their hands down my pants while waiving him through. It would really leave me feeling violated, dirty, and incredibly angry, and with my personality is something I would dwell on, and fume over for the rest of my life. I feel so strongly about this that if "randomly selected" for "enhanced screening" all for the sake of flying I would just cancle the entire trip rather than submit, and that alone would send me in to a lingering rage, even more so if my ticket was not refunded in full.

Ironically Texas is on my short list, how is the situation down their?


Texas is good. I am in Austin and the market seems to be good here. Houston also has a lot of jobs available but the weather isn't so nice. We could use some more pro 2A people to offset the liberals moving here.

What type of work are you looking for?

I grew up in a small town in California where there wasn't a lot of opportunity. Moving away for better opportunities was one of the best things I did.

My family is all still on the west coast, probably about the same distance away as most of Michigan is. My lady and I only get to visit about once a year, maybe twice... but that works for us right now.

You could always do the 20 hour drive to visit your family. I've done that a few times. I usually drive half way one day, get a cheap room and then drive the rest. You can also do the trade off method if you drive with someone.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 4:00:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By S_A_C:

I don't care about fuel stops, connecting flights, or anything of the sort, unfortunately my max budget is about $500 round trip. I suppose I could stretch it to about $3,000, but at that point it would be cheaper to just use another option.

$500 doesn't even crank my engines..

I'd just deal with the TSA.

OR

Learn to fly and fly yourself where you want to go..
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 5:58:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By right_rudder:

Originally Posted By S_A_C:

I don't care about fuel stops, connecting flights, or anything of the sort, unfortunately my max budget is about $500 round trip. I suppose I could stretch it to about $3,000, but at that point it would be cheaper to just use another option.

$500 doesn't even crank my engines..

I'd just deal with the TSA.

OR

Learn to fly and fly yourself where you want to go..


Sorry meant to say $500 each way, but stll..... Looks like I'm screwed.
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 7:14:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By esa17:
When you fly part 135 you, in most cases, bypass the security theater.

At one company I worked for our King Air 200 chartered for $1100/hr with a 3hr minimum. If the crew has to sit and wait for you, you paid a rate for that too. Weapons were banned but "concealed means concealed." Our Citations went up to sometimes $5k/hr.

Another company I worked for flew a variety of aircraft starting with single engine pistons which rent for $550/hr with similar conditions.

Basically, no, it's not cheaper but it's a hell of a lot more convenient.


it's also a helluva lot more entertaining and fun
Link Posted: 3/20/2013 7:25:33 PM EDT

I've flown with a MN company several times to their plant in northern MN. I would go to the airport in Minneapolis, park in the lot about 100 feet from the terminal front door. Walk in and tell the lady behind the desk why I was there. The pilot would meet us in the lobby and we would walk out the door and onto the airport, load the plane and off we go. No security, no ID, no nothing. Some people would carry guns in cases that were heading to northern MN for hunting. The plane was a twin engine 15? passenger. The company flies people from northern MN, Minneapolis and Fargo ND each day for business and when there is open seats you can get a free flight if you know the right people.

Link Posted: 3/20/2013 7:26:30 PM EDT
Do you fly commercial frequently?

Your complaints sound like those of someone who doesn't get out much.
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