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Posted: 11/3/2009 10:58:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 11:00:52 AM EST by Beamy]
shot a parts kit put together version of one of these today, very fun little gun. Now I'm thinking of buying a fully assembled one from

military gun supply

anybody have one? how well assembled are they?

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:04:07 AM EST
I view all parts guns converted to closed bolt from a fixed pin open bolt with great suspicion...

AKs, FALs, etc... can be slapped together on a semi auto reciever without much change, but these guns require extensive work to be legal. As such, one done by a professional shop should be FAR better than one someone pieced together in their garage.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:12:26 AM EST
anybody else?
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:16:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Beamy:
anybody else?

I just don't like the ergonomics of these long, skinny blowback guns. Personally, I'm building my own 7.62 Tok AR to take advantage of the ammo. Will be cheaper that buying a kit gun converted to closed bolt too, if I play my cards right.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:29:17 AM EST
I'm building a KP-44 myself....
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:32:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:32:55 AM EST
I love all the semi conversions hitting the market.

I want one of the PPsH41s
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:33:56 AM EST
I'd rather have a semi-auto PPSch-41. I can use drums or stick mags, and it doesn't look nearly as fugly.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:36:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
I'd rather have a semi-auto PPSch-41. I can use drums or stick mags, and it doesn't look nearly as fugly.


This.


to the OP, are these done by TNW Firearms
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:36:59 AM EST
Would like one
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:37:50 AM EST
I got a kit, but it doesn't shoot yet
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:56:07 AM EST
well I did some online research on these, there are quite a few stories about these suckers having some major issues. Still looks cool, but gun going BOOM doesn't sound cool at all.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 12:17:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Beamy:
well I did some online research on these, there are quite a few stories about these suckers having some major issues. Still looks cool, but gun going BOOM doesn't sound cool at all.


Yep, IIRC, Wiselite was having so much trouble with them, they gave up.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 1:06:01 PM EST
I have a semi-auto PPSh-41 that I never shoot, especially now that I have a 7.62x25mm AR........I should sell it.....
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 4:22:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By Beamy:
well I did some online research on these, there are quite a few stories about these suckers having some major issues. Still looks cool, but gun going BOOM doesn't sound cool at all.


Yep, IIRC, Wiselite was having so much trouble with them, they gave up.


Disclaimer: I am a complete firearms novice so the information below is my opinion only.

Wiselite may not be the actual manufacturer. I bought a KP-44 from them but it was manufactured by SMG Firearms.

Open-bolt submachine guns are not easily converted to semi-auto unless you can keep an open-bolt design which BATF will not allow.

The problems with changing it to a closed-bolt design are many because you are fundamentally changing the momentum of the heavy bolt during firing.

As it was explained to me by a member here, in an open-bolt SMG, you have a heavy bolt moving forward, gaining momentum, picking up a cartridge, and as it starts to chamber the cartridge there is pre-ignition of the primer by the fixed firing pin on the bolt face.

As the cartridge fully chambers and fires, part of what keeps the cartridge in the chamber during firing is the momentum of the heavy bolt as it finally comes to rest against the rear of the chamber.

In designing a semi-auto, a channel must be drilled into the bolt face to accommodate a floating firing pin. A slot must also be milled into the bolt to allow a hammer to strike the firing pin. In this type of design, the bolt is already resting against the back of the chamber and not moving when the hammer strikes the firing pin. At this point, the only thing keeping the bolt pushed against the rear of the chamber is the hammer and the hammer spring. This makes for a very violent recoil compared to the original design.

I think the reason it works with the semi-auto Uzi is because of the monstrous, heavy bolt compared to the PPsh-41/43 or KP-44 and a very well-thought out design.

For reasons that are not entirely clear to me, the semi-auto conversion of these guns also have a high failure of the bolt completely closing. However, the design still allows for the hammer to strike the firing pin even when the bolt is not fully seated, which causes an out-of-battery detonation

What's left of the case:





Picture of top of magazine:



I would strongly recommend against buying one of these guns until they've been in the market long enough for you to read a lot of positive feedback.

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