Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/21/2012 1:39:28 PM EST
"research suggests any car that is not running during an emp would not be affected."

is this true?
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:46:56 PM EST
Not sure, been trying to get an EMP to set off to test common ideas on such an event. I'll get back to you.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:48:40 PM EST
Why don't we just detonate a nuke in the atmosphere so we can finally put all these questions to rest?
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:49:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 1:50:17 PM EST by m193]
No. The EMP will charge the wiring whether or not it is running. Something else may shield it, but running won't matter.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:54:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By PogueMahone:
"research suggests any car that is not running during an emp would not be affected."

is this true?


If the vehicle you are using is close enough to have been affected by EMP then you are so screwed you just need to go to the FEMA camp and get it over with.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:56:39 PM EST
I think it depends on the car as some use some battery power when turned off.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:57:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By m193:
No. The EMP will charge the wiring whether or not it is running. Something else may shield it, but running won't matter.

that's what i understood.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:57:58 PM EST
Maybe we should just arrange a "pinch", like in Ocean's Eleven to find out.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:58:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
Originally Posted By PogueMahone:
"research suggests any car that is not running during an emp would not be affected."

is this true?


If the vehicle you are using is close enough to have been affected by EMP then you are so screwed you just need to go to the FEMA camp and get it over with.




EMP has a larger radius then the blast, major concern is fallout.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:00:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By feelthepayne:
Why don't we just detonate a nuke in the atmosphere so we can finally put all these questions to rest?


/\
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:06:16 PM EST
I read about this at some point, but don't ask me to provide links because I don"t remember where I read it . Anyway, according to military testing, including all our nuke tests back in the 40s and whatnot, not all that many cars would be affected. I think it was something like 15-20% would potentially be inoperable, while the rest might have check engine lights or whatever, but will still run and drive.

That being said, NO ONE knows or can test how big of an EMP the sun can throw at us, and that is what worries me. It may very well be able to disable everything remotely electronic, including all cars.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:06:28 PM EST
You have to protect the battery and computer(s).

Wires must be shielded to protect the above. Just like your watch is protected from radios transmitters and magnets.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:10:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By PogueMahone:
Originally Posted By m193:
No. The EMP will charge the wiring whether or not it is running. Something else may shield it, but running won't matter.

that's what i understood.
this, your shit will be fried unless it is in a Faraday cage, which was also featured on Doomsday Preppers. (which I almost abreviated to DP)

Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:12:09 PM EST
I think the moon would be a good place to test this especially since it has like no atmosphere.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:13:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By PogueMahone:
"research suggests any car that is not running during an emp would not be affected."

is this true?


Yes it is.

The military has done tests, and the results all boiled down to if it is not running when the EMP hits then it will start fine, if it is running most will be fine and some will shut off. A small percentage will not be able to restart.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:14:23 PM EST
Mine can be running and an EMP can go off and I'd drive home like nothing happened. Cummins 12v FTW.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:14:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 2:15:10 PM EST by buckshot_jim]
I built a Faraday cage around my property, it looks goofy but I'm good
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:16:00 PM EST
Lulz... You city boys and your vehicles.



In the slim chance there is ever an EMP strike for whatever reason, the best form of transportation will be by horse.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:16:03 PM EST
parking in a metal shed may very well prevent damage. also, in an underground structure such as a cave or norad would prevent damage for sure as the ground would absorb the electromagnetic charge. its debatable to what extent though things would be damaged. it's possible that older vehicles without computers would be without damage. in theory the body could act as a shield as well. i know it can prevent lightening from entering the cabin. an insulated metal box in which you keep extra batteries and bulbs for your lights is a must though.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:17:57 PM EST

Best way to protect a car is owning a vehicle that still uses points and not computers or fuel injection system.

The harden the motor compartment from EMP.




Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:25:44 PM EST
It's my understanding that the older the car, and the less electronics, the better off the car will be.


Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:32:16 PM EST
Ground your vehicle so the sheet metal makes a farady cage. You can use your tinfoil ha for this.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:44:49 PM EST
no,, neighbors car got hit by EMP, a lightning bolt hit the house next to his, it fried his cars PC and would not start..
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:47:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 2:51:02 PM EST by Silver_Surfer]
Dont think so. The vehicles computer is still powered up
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:49:36 PM EST
Those people are incompetent.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:50:20 PM EST
Too many variables. Some will work, some won't. Some will be in limp mode.

Basically...won't know until it happens.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:53:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By reptar_head:
I read about this at some point, but don't ask me to provide links because I don"t remember where I read it . Anyway, according to military testing, including all our nuke tests back in the 40s and whatnot, not all that many cars would be affected. I think it was something like 15-20% would potentially be inoperable, while the rest might have check engine lights or whatever, but will still run and drive.

That being said, NO ONE knows or can test how big of an EMP the sun can throw at us, and that is what worries me. It may very well be able to disable everything remotely electronic, including all cars.


this is why i avoid elevators. seriously.

the sun can cause a big enough disruption to a very large power grid area such that it might be weeks or months before any decent level of power was achieved. you get stuck in a high rise elevator there is a good chance they will dig you out a few thousand years later kinda like they did those folks in pompeii.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:56:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:57:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Ground your vehicle so the sheet metal makes a farady cage. You can use your tinfoil ha for this.


But how will I keep the thought control beams out then?
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:04:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Ground your vehicle so the sheet metal makes a farady cage. You can use your tinfoil ha for this.


Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:16:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 3:16:49 PM EST by 1Andy2]
Resistance value of the conductor?

How powerful is the EMP?

How far from the pulse is the conductor?


Sounds like a solvable math problem to me. Not BY me, of course.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:24:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By MajorStumpDemon:
Originally Posted By reptar_head:
I read about this at some point, but don't ask me to provide links because I don"t remember where I read it . Anyway, according to military testing, including all our nuke tests back in the 40s and whatnot, not all that many cars would be affected. I think it was something like 15-20% would potentially be inoperable, while the rest might have check engine lights or whatever, but will still run and drive.

That being said, NO ONE knows or can test how big of an EMP the sun can throw at us, and that is what worries me. It may very well be able to disable everything remotely electronic, including all cars.


this is why i avoid elevators. seriously.

the sun can cause a big enough disruption to a very large power grid area such that it might be weeks or months before any decent level of power was achieved. you get stuck in a high rise elevator there is a good chance they will dig you out a few thousand years later kinda like they did those folks in pompeii.


If only elevators had manual over rides, internal roof access panels and you could push the doors open by hand..................oh wait you can. Being stuck in an elevator for any length of time is like being stuck on an escalator for hours

You're car will most likely will not be effected by an EMP from a standard nuke set off in the upper atmosphere. Car made of metal are a poor faraday cage, but sufficient for many wave lengths. The computers are typically encased in a metal box that is used for a heat sink. Again a metal box, that is grounded to the car chassis so there is very little potential difference. The wires in your car that make it run are very small and short so there is a very short antennae that the emp will induce current and the current will be very very low.

I have seen very long 100+ feet of cable have an induced current from a broadcasting tower and I have seen induction when the cables are inches to feet from an explosively driven power supply................

you don't have to ground a faraday cage to make it work, just to keep it from shocking the piss out of you if it has a different potential when you get close enough to ground it.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:25:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By feelthepayne:
Why don't we just detonate a nuke in the atmosphere so we can finally put all these questions to rest?

Iran?
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:26:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:28:03 PM EST


beat me to it

J-
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:28:59 PM EST
Induced voltage and current regardless of whether it's running or not.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:31:13 PM EST
Wasn't there actually a test conducted with vehicles and determined most modern vehicles would be fine or at worse stall, but still restart?
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:32:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:56:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 3:56:37 PM EST by FlyingGorilla]
You're probably better off to have a newer vehicle that parts are readily available for and if you're really worried, hook a jumper cable from the frame to a ground post whenever the vehicle is parked at home.

I recall reading several articles on the Air Force doing EMP testing out in New Mexico back in the 1980s. When they got around to testing vehicles the results were the opposite of what everyone expected. Remember, this was back when cars and trucks still had carburetors, electronic ignitions were new and electronic fuel injection was seversl years away from reaching market.

Conventional wisdon was tht modern vehicles with electronic ignitions would do worse than vehicles with the old points-type ignitions. After the test the electronic ignition vehicles had no problems, but the points equipped ones had fatal failures.

Seems nobbody figured that the effect of EMP on carbon points and distributor cap contacts would damage them. Turned out the carbon points and contacts all crystallized and quit conducting electricity. After they were replaced the vehicles ran normally. It was discovered that if the factory points and rotor caps were replaced with aftermarket parts using metal points and contacts there was no EMP vulnerability.

The findings were that the electronics-equipped vehicles had a great deal of shielding built into the systems to deal with the operting environment under the hood. Shielding and grounding were key to keep the systems operating with the pulses created by the spark plugs firing and that prevented damage from outside EMP pulses.

Basically, the EMP threat for vehicles is alot lower than it was first feared, simply because modern vehicles are engineered to be pretty tough machines to be able to operate within the electromagnetic environment they produce themselves.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:02:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By Amped:
Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
Originally Posted By PogueMahone:
"research suggests any car that is not running during an emp would not be affected."

is this true?


If the vehicle you are using is close enough to have been affected by EMP then you are so screwed you just need to go to the FEMA camp and get it over with.




EMP has a larger radius then the blast, major concern is fallout.


Yes it does. But at that point you are really going to want to bug in, not out. Not knowing the wind direction for the plume, you are more likely to move into the fallout zone and become a casualty needing decontamination rather than get away. EMP is <10 miles. Bug in, listen on the radio for direction for the plume, you may not have to go anywhere. Just getting into a car & driving is a recipe for getting stuck in a huge traffic jam while radiation falls all around you, now you have to try to walk out under a radioactive sky. Congratultions, you will never need a night light again.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:12:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
I built a Faraday cage around my property, it looks goofy but I'm good


How big?


Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:16:27 PM EST
My favorite quote was "You got to have a backup on top of a backup. So I married a twin"
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:27:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Meche_03:

If only elevators had manual over rides, internal roof access panels and you could push the doors open by hand..................oh wait you can. Being stuck in an elevator for any length of time is like being stuck on an escalator for hours


Try that shit when you're in a blind hoistway with no openings for 40 floor, the car top hatches are bolted closed by code, and there are code mandated door restrictors that physically lock the doors closed when they are not within 9" either way of a floor with a door opening.

I don't even know what a manual override is, and I've been working on elevators since 1984.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:29:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 4:29:36 PM EST by RR_Broccoli]

Originally Posted By reptar_head:
I read about this at some point, but don't ask me to provide links because I don"t remember where I read it . Anyway, according to military testing, including all our nuke tests back in the 40s and whatnot, not all that many cars would be affected. I think it was something like 15-20% would potentially be inoperable, while the rest might have check engine lights or whatever, but will still run and drive.

That being said, NO ONE knows or can test how big of an EMP the sun can throw at us, and that is what worries me. It may very well be able to disable everything remotely electronic, including all cars.

Someone needs to find and stick that link in their sig or something. This stupid fucking EMP shit comes up over and over and over and over full of so called "experts" who read or watch FICTION and think it's what will happen.

Look, guys and gals. MILITARY vehicles are HARDENED because the bad guys ATTACK them with NUKES and they'll be near the blast. Not because wiring in an ordinary car is delicate and shit. If EMP was so goddamn dangerous, whole neighborhoods of cars would be out of commission every time a transformer blew.

Even IF EMP is a risk, it's so goddamn fucking hard to protect against that you are basically already living in the stone-age already by the time you are "immunue". Old cars aren't going to matter a whole lot, and they won't be a "solution" for much longer. They'll get harder to find, more expensive, and illegal to drive on the roads or just be gone due to attrition.

Want to do something useful? Balance your checkbook and pay off a credit card. Tinfoil wrapping your car battery is a waste of time.



/whew. now I am spent. off to find that link.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:36:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By reptar_head:
I read about this at some point, but don't ask me to provide links because I don"t remember where I read it . Anyway, according to military testing, including all our nuke tests back in the 40s and whatnot, not all that many cars would be affected. I think it was something like 15-20% would potentially be inoperable, while the rest might have check engine lights or whatever, but will still run and drive.

That being said, NO ONE knows or can test how big of an EMP the sun can throw at us, and that is what worries me. It may very well be able to disable everything remotely electronic, including all cars.

Dude, if you had a car made in the 40's it would probably work after an EMP blast

pretty much any car that has no computer or anything requiring anything "digital" to make it run would work. Like a car with a distributor cap and point style ignition. Radio would be fried, not like you'd need that, cause every radio station would be offline
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 4:58:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By jjc155:


beat me to it

J-

That's the executive summary that leaves out all the hard words.

Here's a long version, including the research results. Page 112 and 115 have the juicy bits.


In short, only a few vehicles won't run, even among relatively modern ones.

Chasing after "fixes" or buying a shitty old vehicle that lacks modern safety features (you know, for accidents we'll actually encounter in our lifetimes) is a bad trade off in my opinion. There's simply better stuff to worry about. The power grid would be in much more danger.

EMP makes for good fiction though.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 5:11:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Saladman:
I think the moon would be a good place to test this especially since it has like no atmosphere.


sittin here thinking about that for a minute. Imagine if we decided to do some nuke testing on the moon cause we thought it would be safe. Then we actually blew the moon apart. That would suck for us.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 5:12:27 PM EST
The biggest risk of EMP is damage to the national electrical grids and communication networks. Take those down, and "just in time" food resupply no longer functions.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 5:14:59 PM EST
For those who think the electrical equivalent of a mouse fart will do anything to a modern car (rolling faraday cage that they are) watch this:

Top Top