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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/26/2002 10:45:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2002 9:43:02 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
As owners of "evil black rifles," we are acutely aware of the continual and relentless efforts of many politicians, governmental agencies, and media types to erode & eliminate our God given, and constitutionally protected right to bear arms. Demonized as we are, we are on the front lines of the struggle to preserve and protect our freedoms, and on the whole, we are a politically active and vigilant bunch. Unfortunately though, I fear that our numbers are too few in the grand political scheme of things to ensure that the [b]"assault weapon" ban[/b] will stay dead when it expires in 04. We can all write & call our elected reps. until we are blue in the face, but the fact remains that without a vast out pouring of opposition and outrage on the part of [b]all[/b] gun owners, we are likely to see a permanent and more restrictive version of the AW ban voted into law. [blue][I]Face it folks… there is strength in numbers, and we need all the political influence that we can muster![/I][/blue] Thus, it is of great importance that we become active in the battle to [b]win the hearts and minds[/b] of hunters, cowboy action shooters, race gun competitors, trap & skeet shooters, and casual target shooters. A balkanized shooting community will not do. It is incumbent upon us to educate [b]all[/b] gun owners on the historical importance, true meaning & modern political relevance of the Second Amendment (in other words, it ain’t about duck hunting!) [b]To this end, I propose that we @ AR15.com become [red]"FREEDOM TROLLS," or "Second Amendment Disciples"[/red] if you will, who venture out, & spread the good word on web sites that are devoted exclusively to shooting sports that don’t involve "assault rifles."[/b] Let’s establish a strong presence on these discussion forums, and open the eyes of some apathetic sport shooters. We should not be rude, condescending, or overly confrontational in our approach, but we should seek to shake the tree of liberty just enough to get their attention. Sign up and post articles, stories and topics that deal with the loss of our firearm freedoms, and be ready to explain how they are evidence of gun grabbing incrementalism. Become a high profile, articulate, and respected board member on these sites. Post news accounts of the BATF abusing their power & authority. Post NRA & GOA action alerts. Post links to pro Second Amendment organizations. Hell… post links to [b]this[/b] site, and invite their board members to come on over and chat!!! [b]In short, we need to show sport shooters that contrary to media stereotypes, "assault rifle" owners are responsible, educated, and politically astute people. At the same time, we need to educate them to the fact that… 1)[red][I]We are all the Militia[/I] that is spoken of in the Bill of Rights.[/red] 2)[blue]That the Second Amendment was written as a practical hedge against tyranny.[/blue] 3)[red]That "assault rifles" [I]are[/I] the very type of firearm that the BOR means to protect.[/red] 4)[blue]That when gun control advocates speak of "reasonable restrictions," their rhetoric is just a facade for their real agenda of complete civilian disarmament and that if we lose the battle to let the AW ban die a final death, it is only a matter of time before emboldened anti-gun politicians and opinion makers will set their sights on hunting and sport firearms!!![/b][/blue] I have compiled a list of links to hunting and sport shooting discussion forums that all have a large registered member base. They are… [url=www.huntingforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi]Hunting Forums[/url] [url=www.forums.huntseek.net/]Huntseek Forums[/url] [url=www.graybeardoutdoors.com/forums/]Graybeard Outdoors Forums[/url] [url=www.huntchat.com]Huntchat Forums[/url] [url=www2.huntinfo.com/cgi-bin/ubb/Ultimate.cgi]Huntinfo.com Forums[/url] [url=http://forums.outdoorsite.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?&category=2]Outdoor Site Forums[/url] [url=www.thehunterslife.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=31]HuntersLife.com Forums[/url] [url=www.gunandgame.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=3]Gun & Game.com Forums[/url] [url=http://pub3.ezboard.com/bshotgunworld.html]Shotgun World Forums[/url] [url=pub48.ezboard.com/bshooterspagetxforums]Shooters Page Forums[/url] [url=www.waterfowler.com/inportal/index.php?env= ADEB68DE2FD-bulletin_cat_list-:l-1-1-:bb-4--1-1-1:n-2-1-:s-3:m-1-]WaterFowler.com Forums[/url] [url=www.sassnet.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi]Single Action Shooting Society[/url] ***This list is by no means complete. Feel free to add your own links to this thread*** Well there you have it. An enjoyable & easy way to get involved and help make the AW ban a thing of the past. See you guys on these other forums, and remember… [b][i]the guns that you save may be your own[/i]!!![/b]
Link Posted: 8/26/2002 10:52:16 PM EDT
Frankly,when my weapons are contraban and subject to confiscation,I'll be joining the VPC in pushing for the sniper rifles to be next.... This was my last chance for the Republicans and so far all I see is half hearted lip service aka Ashcroft. He talks a good game then he mentions the second amendment is open to reasonable restriction...WHAT????? Screw me once more and Libertarian Party here I come and lets get the war going or lets submit weakly....
Link Posted: 8/26/2002 11:38:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2002 11:43:40 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
Patriot, I hear where you are coming from, but don't concede defeat before the battle is even fought! We have [b]one[/b] shot at driving a stake through the heart of the AW ban, and we would be doing a tremendous disservice to future generations of Americans if we didn’t pull out all the stops in an attempt to kill this "law" while we have the opportunity. Negativity & defeatism will not be tolerated in this thread. Half the battle is convincing freedom loving gun owners that [b][i]we can actually affect a change for the better![/i][/b] Don't throw in the towel 1-Patriot-of-many... you are better than that!
Link Posted: 8/26/2002 11:55:47 PM EDT
I have been doing this since way back in 1992 starting in Usenet.
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 2:41:47 AM EDT
Yes the AW ban will sunset. Yes it will be replaced legislation even more draconian. Get used to it.
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 3:28:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 5:16:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maynard:
Originally Posted By PINGi3: Yes the AW ban will sunset. Yes it will be replaced legislation even more draconian. Get used to it.
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I see you have become quite accustomed to your restraints.
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He's being both pragmatic and sarcastic. I agree with him. There's no reason not to fight forthcoming legislation, but just about everything will be passed. Legislative bodies rarely debate about constitutionality of bills. They are more concerned with how much it will cost ($$$), and if it will hurt their next campaign(does it play to their base). The fact is that your (and my) gun rights will be slowly sacrificed, as any politician worth his next term will gladly lose you to get 10 soccer moms who feel "better and protected". I'm of the opinion that our rights can only be restored by judicial action, and even then it's a long shot. Legislatures have a long and glorious history of trampling rights...
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 6:08:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 7:02:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2002 10:07:52 AM EDT by DriftPunch]
Read my post numb nut! It explains the position we are in. Behold the oath of office of a senator:
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
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Due to mass media influence, special interests, future campaigns, etc.., reps and senators have decayed from being honorable men/women who took the above oath seriously, to those who will be the "bitch" of the people. Some positions are not popular, and sometimes that is the constitutional position to take. Those who feel their duty to the "people" outweighs their sworn duty to the office they hold will sell out the constitution in a heartbeat. Guess who is in the great majority in both houses at this time. Hint: it ain't Washington, Jefferson, or Madison! This my friend, is fact! Call it tyranny of the masses, mob rules, or whatever you want, but unless you are one of the lucky few voters who is represented by one who takes the oath seriously, your firearms concerns are falling on deaf ears! My thought is that courts will have final say in determining the life of whatever gets passed. Ergo, an unconstitutional ruling! One can only hope that these individuals whom we presume to have some constitutional knowledge (except Ginsburg) will have the nads to rule according the the original intent!
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 9:54:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2002 9:11:34 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
DriftPunch & PING, thanks for hijacking this positive and potentially constructive thread, and turning it into a forum to air your pessimistic attitudes! [rolleyes] Ever hear of the concept called a self-fulfilling prophecy? That is what gun owners like you guys are engaged in. [b][i]"Oh... the cause is lost, its only going to get worse, politicians do what ever they want... so I'm not going to lift a finger to try to change things!"[/i][/b] That is backwards thinking my friends... Things are as bad as they are [i]because[/i] far too many gun owners throw up their hands & concede defeat without ever actually doing anything to stave off bad legislation. The kicker is that these gun owners think that they are being pragmatic and realistic, and that those of us who still want to fight & lobby are the ones who need to wake up and change their thinking?!?!?! Guys, I will say it again... [b]Half the battle is convincing freedom loving gun owners that we can actually affect a change for the better![/b]
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 10:15:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maynard: It appears you might be unwilling or incapable of understanding these quotes but I'll go ahead and give it a shot. "Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything -- you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." --Robert A. Heinlein "Is life so dear or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" --Patrick Henry "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. On the road to tyranny, we've gone so far that polite political action is about as useless as a miniskirt in a convent." - Claire Wolfe, _101 Things To Do 'Til The Revolution_ "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty, suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." - Patrick Henry Here are my thoughts: Firearms including "assault weapons" in the hands of the citizen equal checks and balances that our Founding Fathers understood so very well. American ownership of private firearms is in a real and meaningful sense the Earth's last best hope for freedom. Which is why the governments of the Earth and our own politicians are united in hysterical determination to see us disarmed. It is our job to ensure the checks and balances of power. And yet so many of us are ready and willing to sit back and accept our ruination.
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Oh....ohh....ohhhh....Oh, you are just downright dirty! Alright you got me. There is no way to argue with the logic of the founders, and especially Claire Wolfe. Ok, time to pull up the panties and start trudging again...
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 2:32:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 7:46:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 8:13:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2002 8:29:55 PM EDT
Beekeeper, thank you very much for tacking this thread and for taking notice. Much appreciated!
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 11:07:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2002 10:25:51 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
Might want to join this site as well... [url=www.pistolsmith.com/index.php]Pistolsmith.com Forums[/url]
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 12:05:15 PM EDT
"it appears that many of our fellow gun owners have forgotten how this Country was founded" Over the bodies of a lot of Englishmen.....
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 8:47:44 PM EDT
The problem is alot of gun owners dont see a "need for "AWs" my parents included. there both in the NRA shoot and hunt and everything else but according to my father "what the hell are you going to use it for" And for some reason I think it scares him that people can own them. Athough I think that may be have hearted because a friend of his Is a MG dealer here in town and is a big time supporter for MGs And my dad also admited that shooting them is fun. But the reason he can have them is "he has been into them sence the war" (vietnom) I think alot of people are this way on one side they think its good but sence all they ever hear is bad about AWs that the only thing you will get is there must be a reason why you shouldnt have them.
Link Posted: 8/28/2002 10:39:57 PM EDT
Luckily I sold all my weapons at a gun show.[rolleyes] Honest![o:)]
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 11:05:06 AM EDT
Hey NY Patriot, you do understand that when the federal ban ends in '04, you will still have the NY State ban that uses the exact same language, right? Meaning, if you continue to live in NY State and the AW ban does indeed expire, nothing will change for you except who might prosecute you.
Link Posted: 8/30/2002 11:39:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2002 10:28:04 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
Posted by Trickshot...
Hey NY Patriot, you do understand that when the federal ban ends in '04, you will still have the NY State ban that uses the exact same language, right? Meaning, if you continue to live in NY State and the AW ban does indeed expire, nothing will change for you except who might prosecute you.
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I understand this full well, but if my plans pan out, one day you will be calling me "NH or VT Patriot"! [;)] Also, it is my hope that one day, the SCOTUS will determine that the 14th. Amendment protects an indivudal's right to bear arms from both Federal [b][i]and State[/i][/b] infringement.
Link Posted: 8/31/2002 7:45:18 PM EDT
Good post, and good suggestions. I also think it would be very beneficial for black rifle owners to make friends with the casual shooters at the range. Let them shoot your rifle and you may make a convert! I have heard a lot of stories on these boards about that happening. Although I can't at the moment.... since in my state you can't purchase an evil assault rifle until you're 21 (a few months left)!
Link Posted: 8/31/2002 9:48:19 PM EDT
Last time I was at the range (and this has happened more than a few times), a young fellow about 14 or 15 was shooting with his father at the next bench. I noticed he was really interested in the three AR's on my bench. So, I asked his father, "Do you mind if I show your son my rifles and let him shoot a few rounds?" Of course, the answer is, not at all. The kid lit up like it was Christmas morning. So, first I went over the extremely intelligent ergonomics of the rifle, and opened it up, let them see how it worked. Explained the difference between a semi AR and the military M16, and the similarities. Then I explained the handling of the rifle. Now it was time to bust some caps! After two shots, his Dad commented, "Son, that's enough, don't waste this man's ammunition." "Naw, go on, finish the magazine." A nice thank you, handshakes, and away walked TWO converts. It's so easy. Takes just a few minutes. And for them, you would never have to explain "Why would anyone want such a thing," as an AR15.
Link Posted: 9/1/2002 7:07:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2002 7:17:55 AM EDT
"Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything -- you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." --Robert A. Heinlein "Is life so dear or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" --Patrick Henry "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. On the road to tyranny, we've gone so far that polite political action is about as useless as a miniskirt in a convent." - Claire Wolfe, _101 Things To Do 'Til The Revolution_ "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty, suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." - Patrick Henry Here are my thoughts: Firearms including "assault weapons" in the hands of the citizen equal checks and balances that our Founding Fathers understood so very well. American ownership of private firearms is in a real and meaningful sense the Earth's last best hope for freedom. Which is why the governments of the Earth and our own politicians are united in hysterical determination to see us disarmed. It is our job to ensure the checks and balances of power. And yet so many of us are ready and willing to sit back and accept our ruination.
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AMEN!
Link Posted: 9/1/2002 9:18:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2002 8:12:00 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
Hoplite.. Unfortunately, the NY "assault weapon" ban that was signed into law 2-3 years ago covers that entire state, not just the city. Check out [url=www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=34]NRA-ILA NY State Gun Law Fact Page[/url] for the details. Thus, Trickshot's original statement...
...if you continue to live in NY State and the {federal} AW ban does indeed expire, nothing will change for you except who might prosecute you.
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is factually correct.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 2:11:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2002 11:27:01 AM EDT
That is precisely why we MUST elect a republican majority in both the House and Senate Races. Ashcroft must report back on the effectiveness of the AW Ban before it sunsets in 2004. Those we elect this november will be the ones that make that decision on our behalf. You can bet HCI and California's Denial Inc. Boxer and Feinstein senators will be vicious supporters along with Charlie Schummer, to try and resurect this law which has accomplished nothing. Register to VOTE and get out the vote this november so you will have a voice in who deals the cards in 2004. You can bet it will be an issue in the 2004 presidential race.
Link Posted: 9/8/2002 11:30:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2002 11:31:21 AM EDT by Redmanfms]
I'm doing my part, but I don't see the Republicans allowing the ban to sunset. It will be replaced, probably by the same law. Edited because a bill ain't the same thing as a law.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 8:57:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 10:03:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2002 7:33:55 AM EDT by Elad_Eflow]
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man: Last time I was at the range (and this has happened more than a few times), a young fellow about 14 or 15 was shooting with his father at the next bench. I noticed he was really interested in the three AR's on my bench. So, I asked his father, "Do you mind if I show your son my rifles and let him shoot a few rounds?" Of course, the answer is, not at all. The kid lit up like it was Christmas morning. So, first I went over the extremely intelligent ergonomics of the rifle, and opened it up, let them see how it worked. Explained the difference between a semi AR and the military M16, and the similarities. Then I explained the handling of the rifle. Now it was time to bust some caps! After two shots, his Dad commented, "Son, that's enough, don't waste this man's ammunition." "Naw, go on, finish the magazine." A nice thank you, handshakes, and away walked TWO converts. It's so easy. Takes just a few minutes. And for them, you would never have to explain "Why would anyone want such a thing," as an AR15.
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When I hear of stories like this I just get all soft and fuzzy inside. A_Free_Man took a little initiative at the range when he noticed this young man eyeing his rifles and turned two average shooters into supporters of "The Black Gun" and supporters of guys like us that shoot "The Black Gun". Do all of us on the forums a favor, next time you go to the range and you see someone that is interested in your rifles, strike up a conversation about them. Mention the Preban and the Postban differences and how ridiculous this legislation is. Now get out there and do your part! Just the other day I was thumbing through my new Bushy Catelogue at school when some senior walked up and said "You getting an M16?" I calmly said "They aren't called M16s they are AR15s, M16s are what our Law Enforcement and Military servicemen use, and yes I do plan on buying one out of this Catelogue." Then he went on about "Your parents would trust you with a rifle like that?" I was like "Ofcourse, I don't do drugs or anything like that, they trust me." Then of course his next statement was one I get a lot when people see my Bushy catelogue "Are you going to shoot up the school?" It was obvious he was joking but statements like that just strike a nerve in me, normal kids at high schools around America do not kill their classmates, demented, sick, troubled, and lost kids shoot up schools. I held back and just joked with him about it. He then went on and told me about one time a guy at his gun range let him shoot one of his AR15s. He said how great it was and I'm sure when he votes in 2004 it won't be for the reinstatement of the AW ban. NYPatriot hope is not lost in this post, and despite how many of you feel on these forums, the youth of this nation is not lost either. There are many teenagers in this nation that just like to have some honest fun like shooting, hunting, fishing, canoeing, camping hikeing, and riding ATVs and dirtbikes together. We are all not evil [;)] We all don't have piercings and tatoos either :) Get out to your range and convert some fellow shooters! To you pessimistic folk on here like all stereotypes there are exceptions, not all Politicians are greedy and powerhungry, we just have to hope that these politicians get their voices heard.
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 10:11:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2002 10:13:32 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
Wise words & great post Elad_Eflow!!! [beer] BTW... a belated welcome to AR15.com!
Link Posted: 11/22/2002 10:37:16 PM EDT
[b]Elad_Eflow[/b], you are wise beyond your years. Welcome to the board. [beer]
Link Posted: 11/23/2002 7:34:47 AM EDT
Thanks guys I posted that at like 1:30 in the morning last night so it was kind of sloppy, I just got done fixing most of the mistakes. Thanks for all of the kind words.
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