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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 9/2/2002 6:46:02 AM EDT
Anybody watching this? I can't believe what I heard. When they were issued their M16A2's, one of the female recruits said something on the order of: "This is the only downside of the Army. I don't like the idea of carrying a gun and killing people" I almost lost my lunch. What the hell do people think the military is when they enlist?
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 6:55:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2002 6:58:29 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 7:23:44 AM EDT
Never been though basic training but I always had the idea that it was a little bit harder than what they are showing. Also while on the same topic, I heard from a friend of mine that the military is turning down a large number of potential recruits because of hearing problems. I guess that boom boom music is weeding them out. Think I'll go into the hearing aid business. With the Baby Boomer generation and the Gen X crowd following, I got to be able to make a living!
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 7:32:22 AM EDT
Beer Slayer: It's a fine point, and I know what you meant, but Marines train recruits to become Marines. The Army trains soldiers. With respect to the Army, Marines are not "soldiers". No offense. Noah
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 7:49:39 AM EDT
I have been watching the show and I cannot believe what I am seeing. I went through Basic Combat Training at Ft Jackson in the mid-60s. It was part of the first big build up for Vietnam. The DIs were mostly ex WWII and Korean War Vets. All were combat vets and they were tough SOBs. They never cut us any slack and made life hell. For instance one time they got us up at 3:00 in the morning and made us made us switch everything from the first floor with the second floor of the barracks while screaming and yelling the whole time. They made us low crawl under the very dusty barracks floor at a drop of the hat. They carried sticks and beat us over the head (visa helmet liners)every time we screwed up. They did not give us one minute's peace. They always took the worse shooters at the range and made they do KP. They made us low crawl up Drag Ass Hill. The list is endless. It was nothing like the pansy ass program I see on Basic Training. It must be because they integrated women into the training program. I would not have much confidence in the ability of those young recruits to be discipline and skillful soldiers. I'm assuming that because of the women the Army is writing off BCT and instilling the skills in the advance training of the combat branches. Anyway I am very disappointed in what I see.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 8:06:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2002 8:10:18 AM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
I to was amazed, as to how totaly wussed out modern basic training had become. I think this is why we are seeing the size of our Special Ops units doubled, and Special Ops, the only units Expected to fight and take casulties. I think the Army is working away from the idea of every man/woman a soldier, Twards Two Seperate Armies. A fighting soldier warrior class and A large Technician Class, who our leaders think can be shielded from combat and casulties. This in the minds of our national leaders, keeps Recruitment at acceptable levels (so we do not have to think about unpleasant and politicaly unpopular options like the draft to fill our military ranks, because reciutment is falling like a stone. So we have to convince Betty Liberal Soccer Mom, that it's ok for her little Johnny or Judy to join up, and that they will not have to handle icky guns or go anywhere little Johnny or Judy might get killed, or really just anywhere little Johnny or Judy did'nt feel like deploying to. You see Betty the Liberal Soccer Mom, Thinks, that the Special Forces soldiers actualy getting killed out there, have something slightly wrong in the head, to have signed up for Spec Ops anyway and deserve to get killed for being in special ops in the first place. To Betty Liberal Soccer Mom, its good that these violent men get killed and removed from our social order, so her kids can hurry up and get their training and their G.I. bill, so they can get out of the army go to school get a nice degree and Betty Liberal Soccer Mom can put the Money saves by not having to pay for collage into her retirement fund. Of course the fact that G.I. Joe the Special Ops soldier is turned into cannon fodder by all this, matters not a whit to Betty or our national leaders. Our army of one means making special ops soldiers Expendable.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 8:16:09 AM EDT
Boy has the army turned into a bunch of wimps. I wouldn't be surprised if the Drill asked them to please get down and give me 20!
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 8:21:56 AM EDT
How funny...I logged on just to bitch about this. I went through OSUT at Benning in 1988, and it sure as hell wasn't like this. That black kid who was slouching around when they were polishing their boots would have inspired a K-I-L-L-I-N-G rage in Drill Sergeant Potts. And it nearly makes me sick to watch those female DSs trying to be hardasses. I had to switch over to 'Making Marines' just to keep from losing my lunch. That's closer to what I remember. QS
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 8:33:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2002 8:34:52 AM EDT by crumabn]
The so called "low stress Basic Training" is the reason I got out (one of them) We started regularly getting in guys in division that could not hang physically or mentally. They would cry, whine and go AWOL. The ones that did make it told us that we were harder on them than their DS's. And these were guys that made it through Infantry and Jump school too! When I went through Jump, we lost at least half the class over the three weeks. If these were the ones that made it, I was going to have a serious issue with sharing a foxhole with a pussy. I have been following the show but basically cause it follows "Mail Call" which KICKS ASS!! what really frightens me are that these pansies will be the ones invading Iraq. I hope there's a lot of body bags! I actually feel bad for the recruits- They've got no idea what to do when bullets come flying. And it's really not their fault.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 8:36:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2002 8:37:55 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 8:37:44 AM EDT
Do you mean they've pussified Infantry training too? Jesus. Makes me glad I've only reupped for a year - cuz I bet that's all I'm going to be able to stand...if the RA is like this what's the goddamn Guard going to be like? [puke] QS
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 8:49:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr: Do you mean they've pussified Infantry training too? Jesus. Makes me glad I've only reupped for a year - cuz I bet that's all I'm going to be able to stand...if the RA is like this what's the goddamn Guard going to be like? [puke] QS
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When I got out in 92 it had already become so. Those guys didn't know dick about being in the woods, tactics, nothing. When I got to division, we had the EIB testing, and at least 2/3rds of us passed it, myself included. When it rolled around my last year in, only about a dozen, out of the whole company earned it. I shudder to think what it is now. I was really hoping that Bush would have done like his dad and Reagan did and toughen things up...
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 8:49:44 AM EDT
It scares the crap out of me. I am stunned to think that this is the "Army of one" that we a deploying around the world to project our political will and protect our national interests. I can't watch it. They are not making warriors. I don't know what to call them but they are definitely not warriors. They better get back to making warriors or we are all in deep doo-doo.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 9:06:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 9:13:46 AM EDT
I just want to know who the hell is responsible for it? They should be drawn and quartered. They are putting our solider and missions at risk. USPC40 [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/line.gif[/img] [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/alabamaflag.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 9:20:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2002 9:30:52 AM EDT by QCMGR]
Originally Posted By Flash66: They carried sticks and beat us over the head (visa helmet liners)every time we screwed up.
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No shit! I was at Fort Leonard Wood in the early 80's and my Drill Sergeants were Vietnam Combat Vets. I remember having a FTF on the range and a Drill Sergeant cracked me in the head with a stick because I panicked during qualification. Needless to say he got my undivided attention.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 9:26:38 AM EDT
The cause of this "new" Basic Training is all politics. Whiny wimpy son/daughter calls dad(Lawyer, Reporter, ect.) and society says "oh thats to difficult for this kids to do." It's complete BS, because they are depriving these young adults of the PROPER training that is needed in case of war. Even though the Marines still have probably the toughest Basic, every branch has toned it down immensly.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 9:28:45 AM EDT
Just to add my penny's worth, it has not gotten that bad yet in Infantry OSUT. I went thru in early 2000 and it was , in my platoon at least, something to be feared. But I saw so much variation between companies and even platoons in a company, ie 4th plt. is a bunch of hardasses but 1st over there are calling their drills by their first names. (Not really but you get the point) Anywhere you go, certain basic training battalions have reps most know about. People in the line units know which batts. are producing screwups and which send squared away soldiers. Little side note, the first time I went on leave from my unit , X-mas '00, on the flight from Dallas to T-town, I was seated beside a Marine just graduated from basic. Sitting there all in his green dress uniform, whatever they call it. We were talking and he was going on about how hard the Crucible was , the 8 or 9 mile walk home is a killer, etc. I had to inform him of my company's "earn your leave" activity 3 days prior. Nighttime jump, assemble and roadmarch 25 miles to get home. Poor kid couldn't believe anyone walked that far.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 6:55:53 PM EDT
....watching more than 3 seconds of "Basic Training" made me want to puke, so I switched over the "Best Ranger Competiton" and got myself a beer....
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 7:09:26 PM EDT
SEAL/UDT BUDS class 234 was on discovery earlier today. The definitive level of training & conditioning necessary to bleed less in wartime.
Link Posted: 9/2/2002 7:32:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2002 7:50:24 PM EDT by Spade]
Yeah. I had control of the TV today. We watched Basic Training, Making Marines, and then the one about SEAL/UDT. God, the Army looked bad in that. What really did it for me was the female Army recruit doing her "happy dance" during compass work, and doing pushups. And then watching the female Marine get a 10 minute dress down about smiling on camera. What was really cool about the SEAL/UDT was, I ran into a buddy of mine from HS at PSU last week. He was in the Class of 2000 with me, but we parted ways my Sophomore year. When I left he was undisciplined, and all that. Turns out, that class the show at the end of the thing about Class 234, the one doing the 14 mile run past 234? He was in that class. Little while later he was doing regular PT, got tripped by another guy, and tore up his elbow and got discharged.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 12:57:09 AM EDT
I watched a total of about five minutes of the thing. I either had to turn the channel, or shoot the TV. I went to basic training in '82. It really wasn't all that hard back then. Sure the Drill Seargents could probably get away with more back then as far as cussing and calling you names and stuff, but as long as you just did what you were told, you were going to get through it EASY. Think of the MILLIONS, upon MILLIONS who have gone through Army basic training. It's not like it can be all that hard. It's more of a resocialization thing for most anyway. One giant head game. The physical stuff is nothing you shouldn't be able to do when you're 18, and the miiltary stuff is the most absolute basic, memorization stuff. It's not like it requires much thinking. Most people get kicked out because they just can't adjust to military life. Like I said, it really wasn't all that hard when I went through (I was expecting more), but I found the TV show to be even more "feel good" than I had expected. I have to admit that the Marine Corps does it right, and always had. That's an interesting observation that Fearandloathing37 made. The point of having a "warrior class" and a "technician class" is very accurate. The USMC is much smaller, and possibly has the leeway to go with the "everyone is warrior class" attitude. The Army is HUGE by comparison to any Western Army, and only a couple other armies in the world are larger. The manpower requirements, two year enlistments, high loss through poor retention, etc. put a stress on the Army system that seems to result in the "two class" system. Interesting observation. Ross
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 1:34:06 AM EDT
I went to basic training at Ft Benning, GA from April 1996 to July 1996 (15 weeks) and it was nothing like the sh!t on that show. I would guess that it was severely tuned-down for TV. When I went through basic the Drill Sargeants were ALWAYS yelling, cussing, pushing, shoving, calling us everything but a human being. A Drill Sargeant aclually dislocated a soldiers shoulder during hand-to-hand training. On many occasions during dinner, my tray was thrown in the floor and I had to clean it up and leave without eating (very expeditiously I might add) because i was eating too slowly. Apparently 20 seconds is enough to eat a meal.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 2:03:01 AM EDT
I went through USMC boot camp in August of '96. The most I can say about it is it was like the movie Full Metal Jacket except without the hitting and blanket party. We did do some things our DI's didn't know about though. I was stationed at an Air Force Base for a year and was dating one of the airmen, she told me that He "T.I" (techincal instructor would cry to get them to do things. I started laughing but then it made me sad. Oh well. The Army boot camp show made me laught too. The D.I's never yell. Marine D.I's can barely speak after 1 week. I'd hate to see what woul dhappen if our airmen or our regualr army units got attacked.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 5:52:05 AM EDT
... "the [b]All Volunteer Army[/b]" has been in shambles for several years now. ... One time in my life we tongue-in-cheek joked about contracting the [b]Army[/b] "job" out. ... It's starting to actually sound feasible and plausible now.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 6:29:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 6:42:48 AM EDT
I saw a few minutes of that show, I JUST got out of Fort Jackson 2 weeks ago for basic training, it made me sick. It was a little harder than that, but not much. The whole thing really pissed me off, I came there expecting to get my ass kicked, I worked real hard beforehand to get into shape and I actually left weaker than I had arrived. It was endless speeches on Army values, sexual harassment, and stuff like that. Victory Forge was an absolute joke. Phase testing was a joke - there was no penalty for not passing. PT was pitiful, only 2 mile runs for A GROUP RUNNERS! We were supposed to have PT every morning but we had it MAYBE twice a week towards the end. Rifle training was lame as all hell, we did K.P. if we were good though. We learned next to nothing when it came to attacking and reacting to ambushes and stuff The drill sergeants were not even allowed to curse! They would say things like,"Gosh Dog!", "Good Day/Night!", "Frickin'", and the popular,"Got Dag Gone" It just seems sort of ridiculous to me when they are training you to kill people and they are not even allowed to curse around you. I was completely disappointed the only thing that I really got from there was patience, from waiting in line for freaking half the day EVERY DAY. I was the second best shooter in my company though. The SAW was cool, and the AT-4 was DAMN cool. From what I hear Fort Jackson is the easiest, so our army probably isn't in that bad of shape.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 6:59:00 AM EDT
Someone wrote: It must be because they integrated women into the training program. >DING!< We have a winner! Scott
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 7:09:57 AM EDT
I hate to say it, but it appears that Chair Force basic training when I went through in '89 is was a tougher regimen than what the Army is putting recruits through today.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 8:27:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scottman: Someone wrote: It must be because they integrated women into the training program. >DING!< We have a winner! Scott
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nah its not the intergrating women its the lowering the standards for woman. I am for Women in the military [b] AS LONG AS THEY HAVE THE SAME EXACT STANDARD AS THE MEN DO NOT LOWER IT FO EITHER MEN NOR WOMEN![/b]
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 8:55:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2002 8:56:49 AM EDT by Hawkeye66]
Basic Training has been just short of horrible; those kids are undisciplined and lazy. I hope they are not the top of their class. I went through Air Force ROTC Fielding Training (yes I know ha, chair force I hear all the jokes) at Tyndale AFB and it was by far more intense mentally and physically. The Captain in charge of my flight was sharp and made us do things over until it was perfect and if we ever did that "happy dance" it would been physical discipline and counseling on conduct un-becoming.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 10:31:50 AM EDT
That show is a recruiters dream. I went through Basic in 86 and it wasnt anything like that. Had some friends kids just get back and they wish they would have went there too. This training bunch is probably a rotation for some non-combat MOS such as clerks and office personell.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 11:01:49 AM EDT
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